Very strange and glitchy behaviour with MPE synths in REAPER.

merlino · 09-21-2023, 01:04 PM

I have made a video where I am playing a couple of chords on my seaboard rise within Reaper and then mute the track, open equator2 standalone and play the same chords with exactly the same settings.

Reaper triggers the cutoff when it isn't triggered and the audio glitches alot (this happens with almost any preset and makes using the seaboard a hard task in reaper).

there are some workarounds but then I have to disable a lot of awesome functions like the "slide" or "lift" within equator or the ROLI dashboard.. The glitches remain in the recordings and often randomize (sometimes a note doesn't glitch when I replay my recordings and then the next time I play that same recording it does glitch).

Can someone that has some experience with MPE controllers and MPE softsynths in reaper tell me what's going on here?

In this video you will directly hear what I mean.

https://we.tl/t-aF6YLuL9et

I also have attached the audio files for those who prefer that. (recorded with phone speakers but very hearable what the problem is).

mschnell · 09-21-2023, 01:41 PM

MPE is just normal Midi on multiple channels. Hence (If you don't want to edit the recorded data) Reaper does not - and does not need to - know that it is MPE. Just recording and playing back should work normally.

merlino · 09-21-2023, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell

MPE is just normal Midi on multiple channels. Hence (If you don't want to edit the recorded data) Reaper does not - and does not need to - know that it is MPE. Just recording and playing back should work normally.

Thanks for your reply!
Well it doesn't.. playing or recording in Reaper triggers MPE data that isn't triggered when I play the same thing in Equator standalone mode.

For example when playing short notes with a "dance short synth" it is supposed to play those "short hits" and it does in equator 2 standalone but in REAPER, things get triggered at random (so that means that it doesn't appear in the midi cc data) Like you hear in my video or in the audiotracks. It doesn't "record normally" I am not talking about editing the MPE data.

Kind regards

mschnell · 09-21-2023, 11:36 PM

To find out where the modification of the Midi data happens, you can use ReaControlMidi's log window.

merlino · 09-22-2023, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell

To find out where the modification of the Midi data happens, you can use ReaControlMidi's log window.

Thanks again for the reply =).

Well that is the problem, there are no different value's and the note that got triggered in the MIDI files are always random. So when I start playing some chords and I hear the trigger (brightness/cutoff cc74 spike) while I wasn't sliding. There is no info in reacontrol midi or in the cclane that refer to a slide. If I replay the recorded file it sometimes happen again with the same note and then I replay it again and happens another note. Thats why I didn't bring any numbers and logfiles but just a recording to show that it is a glitch.

And btw it isn't just with one preset. it is with all of them.

mschnell · 09-22-2023, 03:18 AM

To me it feels like some Note Off event are going missing.
There is very little chance that Reaper does this.

You can take a look at the event list in the Midi editor to exactly see the recorded events in a small example. If you re happy with those, but it's not what you here, you can use the Midi log to see what Reaper sends to Equator.

merlino · 09-22-2023, 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell

To me it feels like some Off event are going missing.
There is very little chance that Reaper does this.

You can take a look at the event list in the Midi editor to exactly see the recorded events in a small example. If you re happy with those, but it's not what you here, you can use the Midi log to see what Reaper sends to Equator.

Thankyou! The midi event list looks normal, no strange behaviour. Where can I find the MIDI log? looked it up but can't find anything about it.

thanks again for your replies

mschnell · 09-22-2023, 02:22 PM

As said: ReaControlMidi doe provide a log window.

Install that VST right before Equator.

merlino · 09-23-2023, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell

As said: ReaControlMidi doe provide a log window.

Install that VST right before Equator.

Here I have a file while hitting C4 F4 and A4 with the "glitch trigger" and the same notes without the glitch, seems like "ok" to me..

mschnell · 09-23-2023, 06:37 AM

Seems OK,

But did not sound OK ?

merlino · 09-26-2023, 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell

Seems OK,

But did not sound OK ?

No the brightness/cutoff got triggered like I "slided" while I just "pressed". And thats what I think is strange. It does not happen when I play around with equator2 standalone. Only when using and or recording in REAPER.

mschnell · 09-27-2023, 12:19 AM

Hmm.

I all the time play Equator from Seaboard through Reaper. I never use the Equator stand alone. Works perfectly. But I never tried recording the output of the Seaboard, yet.

mschnell · 09-27-2023, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlino

No the brightness/cutoff got triggered like I "slided" while I just "pressed". And thats what I think is strange. It does not happen when I play around with equator2 standalone. Only when using and or recording in REAPER.

Do you maybe have "Control" enabled in the Seaboard Midi device settings, and by the the control messages go to some unexpected place ?

merlino · 09-27-2023, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell

Do you maybe have "Control" enabled in the Seaboard Midi device settings, and by the the control messages go to some unexpected place ?

Thanks again for the reply and tremendous help.
Yes control messages are on. Not sure what you mean with "control messages go to some unexpected places". I tried it with controlmessages unchecked but it doesn't change anything unfortunately =(

mschnell · 09-27-2023, 09:32 AM

By this checkbox you can enable midi messages from this device to trigger Reaper Actions that change the behavior of Reaper itself-.

merlino · 09-28-2023, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell

By this checkbox you can enable midi messages from this device to trigger Reaper Actions that change the behavior of Reaper itself-.

There are no buttons on the seaboard that can be used to trigger reaperactions. I've unchecked because I don't need it anyway =)

mschnell · 09-28-2023, 02:04 PM

The Seaboard does send Midi CC messages. Hence it can.

But anyway this does not seem to be the source of any of your problems.

merlino · 09-30-2023, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell

The Seaboard does send Midi CC messages. Hence it can.

But anyway this does not seem to be the source of any of your problems.

Well not that I can't use the seaboard now. The workaround I did (when I use a pad or something where I often use the slide up or down function).

Then I look at the cc data, overdraw them with mouse and delete the "played" cc data.

mschnell · 09-30-2023, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlino

Well not that I can't use the seaboard now. The workaround I did (when I use a pad or something where I often use the slide up or down function).

Then I look at the cc data, overdraw them with mouse and delete the "played" cc data.

For and channel the MPE Streame contains?

merlino · 10-03-2023, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschnell

For and channel the MPE Streame contains?

Not certain what you mean, I just delete all the MPE data which has anything to do with "brightness cuttoff" (which is the slide function) and I redraw them under cc 74 brightness cutoff.

mschnell · 10-03-2023, 06:28 AM

When "drawing" CCs in an MPE stream, you constantly need to switch the channel for those.