Glue MIDI Items BUG (Extended notes)

[ddsequera]

Hi,

I want to report a situation: when i try to glue several MIDI items together, the notes of the resultant MIDI clip get extended. I'm using a MIDI keyboard.

Here is a video example

https://youtu.be/x7_BBseNTwU

[ddsequera]

Here's another video of the same error occurring. I hope it helps developers to figure it out:

https://youtu.be/60cPDMUzX0g

[ddsequera]

Once again Reaper just destroyed my midi. Dealing with MIDI messages, joining clips, generating note off messages at the end of the notes and clips and blah blah blah, those are fundamental stuff and I can't understand why on version 6.80 we are having this situation.

https://youtu.be/ne-jPjjJ21A

I kinda know this is going nowhere, I'll just give my license away and move on. Good bye Reaper.

[nofish]

Have you seen this post, maybe it helps in your case too?
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...08&postcount=9

[ddsequera]

Originally Posted by nofish

Have you seen this post, maybe it helps in your case too?
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...08&postcount=9

Yeah I tried everything I've seen online so far. Even reinstalled REAPER couple of times. Today I installed v6.81 and still same bug. If a very simple operation like gluing 2 midi clips together fails, I can only imagine how many other stuff have errors and we just can't see it.

[dangguidan]

Options: Correct overlapping notes while editing

[Coachz]

That happens to me sometimes too and definitely destroys the midi data so you are not alone. I don't know why it does it but I'm not changing any settings in between when it does it and when it doesn't. I don't know if it has to do with sustain pedal data or something that confuses it. I just end up telling my piano player to replay the part but it's very weird that it happens at all.

Maybe if you can post a project with that offending track and your backed up preferences file the devs can look at it and solve the mystery.

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by dangguidan

Options: Correct overlapping notes while editing

My current reaper version does not have that in options (main or midi). I'm on dev builds but I don't think that should matter.

[gofer]

Originally Posted by Coachz

My current reaper version does not have that in options (main or midi). I'm on dev builds but I don't think that should matter.

Midi editor -> Options: “Automatically correct overlapping notes”. It’s also in the Action list: Midi editor section “Options: Correct overlapping notes while editing”
I am using the dev built as well, maybe you customised the options menu?

[Coachz]

Originally Posted by gofer

Midi editor -> Options: “Automatically correct overlapping notes”. It’s also in the Action list: Midi editor section “Options: Correct overlapping notes while editing”
I am using the dev built as well, maybe you customised the options menu?

Thanks I'll check in there. Are you saying this should be on or off?

[schwa]

If you could possibly post or link to a minimal project that does not glue notes correctly, that would be great.

[ddsequera]

Originally Posted by schwa

If you could possibly post or link to a minimal project that does not glue notes correctly, that would be great.

Here

[ddsequera]

Oh God, see this one:

https://youtu.be/tS8q124DzS0

[ddsequera]

Here's a workaround. It's pretty barbaric but it works =D

[schwa]

Originally Posted by ddsequera

Here

I'm sorry, I don't think there is any MIDI in this project.

[ddsequera]

Originally Posted by schwa

I'm sorry, I don't think there is any MIDI in this project.

If you save and reopen the .rpp file the error does not occur on that (those) particular MIDI item(s) anymore, need to be a "new" recording. Use the session I've sent you, record some chords and it should eventually happen.

[ddsequera]

Originally Posted by schwa

I'm sorry, I don't think there is any MIDI in this project.

Same behavior with glue, undo, glue:

https://youtu.be/Jssx3_fZOPo

[schwa]

How are you recording the MIDI? Does this occur when the MIDI items are created by drawing MIDI notes in the editor, or recording using the built-in virtual keyboard? Or does it only occur when recording MIDI from specific external hardware?

[ddsequera]

Originally Posted by schwa

How are you recording the MIDI? Does this occur when the MIDI items are created by drawing MIDI notes in the editor, or recording using the built-in virtual keyboard? Or does it only occur when recording MIDI from specific external hardware?

I’m using hardware, usb midi keyboard.

[schwa]

It sounds like this behavior depends on how this particular MIDI device sends data. Does any undo action on the MIDI data fix the problem? In other words, if you glue and it's incorrect, then undo, then glue again, is the glue correct?

If so, this is going to be hard or impossible for us to debug, because we won't be able to recreate the state of the data. The only piece of information I can think that might help is View / Raw MIDI data (you can select and copy the output), but you would need to capture that output immediately before an incorrect glue operation.

[ddsequera]

Originally Posted by schwa

It sounds like this behavior depends on how this particular MIDI device sends data. Does any undo action on the MIDI data fix the problem? In other words, if you glue and it's incorrect, then undo, then glue again, is the glue correct?

If so, this is going to be hard or impossible for us to debug, because we won't be able to recreate the state of the data. The only piece of information I can think that might help is View / Raw MIDI data (you can select and copy the output), but you would need to capture that output immediately before an incorrect glue operation.

Glue, undo and glue again fix the issue indeed.

What I see is that when I record with my keyboard, the midi item displays the notes correctly, as intended when recorded, but in the background the midi information is distorted (long notes, absent notes and such).

Are the graphical representation of the notes and the actual midi messages not coming from the same data stream? Is one is a reinterpretation of the other?

When you glue the item(s) for the first time, the midi item show the error, you can see the modified notes.

Undo, then you can see the notes just right and they sound right, the display matches the midi message in the background and it is correct, no weird notes. Items are not glued of course.

Glue second time, it works fine.

I'm using a Nord Electro 6d, it works fine with other daws btw.

I hope this is helpful.

[ddsequera]

Originally Posted by schwa

It sounds like this behavior depends on how this particular MIDI device sends data. Does any undo action on the MIDI data fix the problem? In other words, if you glue and it's incorrect, then undo, then glue again, is the glue correct?

If so, this is going to be hard or impossible for us to debug, because we won't be able to recreate the state of the data. The only piece of information I can think that might help is View / Raw MIDI data (you can select and copy the output), but you would need to capture that output immediately before an incorrect glue operation.

Ah, the raw MIDI data thing, how do I do that? Does a video work using the midi monitor included in Reaper?

[schwa]

Easiest would be to view the raw MIDI data via the View menu in the MIDI editor, then select-all in that dialog and copy it elsewhere to share.

[ddsequera]

Originally Posted by schwa

Easiest would be to view the raw MIDI data via the View menu in the MIDI editor, then select-all in that dialog and copy it elsewhere to share.

Here is a midi item, I duplicated it and glued only the duplicated one, kept the original one intact.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1CM9cepKOM

Raw MIDI info

MIDI ITEM 1 (The one on the left side)

+0 0: 90 50 77
+143 143: 80 50 7C
+97 240: 90 50 56
+244 484: 80 50 5A
+-4 480: 90 4E 6C
+469 949: 80 4E 77
+11 960: 90 4B 4E
+480 1440: 90 47 5E
+22 1462: 80 4B 61
+428 1890: 80 47 4A
+30 1920: 90 44 4E
+382 2302: 80 44 77
+98 2400: 90 4E 6A
+175 2575: 80 4E 7F
+65 2640: 90 50 67
+260 2900: 80 50 64
+220 3120: 90 4B 6C
+240 3360: 90 47 52
+0 3360: 80 4B 67
+240 3600: 90 44 52
+-29 3571: 80 47 61
+253 3824: 80 44 79
+16 3840: 90 45 64
+496 4336: 80 45 7F
+224 4560: 90 45 69
+433 4993: 80 45 7A
+47 5040: 90 4C 6E
+204 5244: 80 4C 76
+36 5280: 90 53 63
+240 5520: 90 4C 58
+27 5547: 80 53 7F
+144 5691: 80 4C 71
+69 5760: 90 51 69
+222 5982: 80 51 7F
+18 6000: 90 51 68
+229 6229: 80 51 67
+11 6240: 90 50 62
+432 6672: 80 50 6C
+48 6720: 90 4E 51
+434 7154: 80 4E 7F
+46 7200: 90 4C 61
+479 7679: 80 4C 7F
+1 7680: 90 49 52
+3049 10729: 80 49 7F
+839 11568: B0 7B 00


MIDI ITEM 2

+0 0: 90 50 77
+143 143: 80 50 7C
+97 240: 90 50 56
+244 484: 80 50 5A
+465 949: 80 4E 77
+11 960: 90 4B 4E
+480 1440: 90 47 5E
+22 1462: 80 4B 61
+428 1890: 80 47 4A
+30 1920: 90 44 4E
+382 2302: 80 44 77
+98 2400: 90 4E 6A
+175 2575: 80 4E 7F
+65 2640: 90 50 67
+260 2900: 80 50 64
+220 3120: 90 4B 6C
+240 3360: 90 47 52
+0 3360: 80 4B 67
+240 3600: 90 44 52
+224 3824: 80 44 79
+16 3840: 90 45 64
+496 4336: 80 45 7F
+224 4560: 90 45 69
+433 4993: 80 45 7A
+47 5040: 90 4C 6E
+204 5244: 80 4C 76
+36 5280: 90 53 63
+240 5520: 90 4C 58
+27 5547: 80 53 7F
+144 5691: 80 4C 71
+69 5760: 90 51 69
+222 5982: 80 51 7F
+18 6000: 90 51 68
+229 6229: 80 51 67
+11 6240: 90 50 62
+432 6672: 80 50 6C
+48 6720: 90 4E 51
+434 7154: 80 4E 7F
+46 7200: 90 4C 61
+479 7679: 80 4C 7F
+1 7680: 80 47 00
+0 7680: B0 7B 00

[schwa]

Originally Posted by ddsequera

+97 240: 90 50 56
+244 484: 80 50 5A
+-4 480: 90 4E 6C
+469 949: 80 4E 77

Here's the problem. The second note-on at location 480 is out of order. Is this an overdub recording, or are you recording into empty space on the timeline? Is there any FX or processing (like input FX) in between the MIDI controller and the recording? Or was the MIDI edited or processed in any way (like with a reascript) before capturing this raw MIDI data?

[ddsequera]

Originally Posted by schwa

Here's the problem. The second note-on at location 480 is out of order. Is this an overdub recording, or are you recording into empty space on the timeline? Is there any FX or processing (like input FX) in between the MIDI controller and the recording? Or was the MIDI edited or processed in any way (like with a reascript) before capturing this raw MIDI data?

This particular time It was no overdub, clean timeline space, using JS MIDI Transpose notes 2 octaves down before the AUi at the end of the chain.

Sometimes it also happened with no plugins or MIDI modifiers, and, I remember the JS MIDI Velocity and Timing Humanizer does some crazy stuff too, but I'll elaborate more on that later on.

Hope that helps.

[ddsequera]

Originally Posted by schwa

Here's the problem. The second note-on at location 480 is out of order. Is this an overdub recording, or are you recording into empty space on the timeline? Is there any FX or processing (like input FX) in between the MIDI controller and the recording? Or was the MIDI edited or processed in any way (like with a reascript) before capturing this raw MIDI data?

Check this one when you have time.

https://youtu.be/jXXSoEalEdE

You will see my settings there.
My fx chain is "JS Transpose Notes" before an instrument.
Undo and Glue again fixed the issue.

[Coachz]

bump

[ddsequera]

Any news about this? Anybody?

[ddsequera]

I did this experiment to demonstrate the midi error happening. Apparently note off messages are added (or not) at the end of the midi items depending on the areas where they are located in the timeline.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiT8hPr1iKU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-4lMs8R3AA

I hope this is useful