Can't Render Stereo and Mono Busses at same time with correct file channel count

[Thonex]

[EDIT] -- Found a work-around... see post #6

Hi folks,

This has been driving me nuts since I moved over to Reaper. I'm hoping I am missing something obvious, but I've been through the wringer on this issue. I've attached a really small project as an example project at the bottom of this post.

Can anyone show me how to export a stereo buss and a mono buss at the same time and have them rendered into the project as a stereo file and a mono file... I would be hugely grateful. I always get 2 stereo files no matter what... unless I render the mono buss as "mono" files and only render the mono busses separately.


My problem:

I have to render stems of varying channel types and bring them back into my project:



I can't get reaper to render a mono send (a send that has a mono signal sent to it) as a mono file AND a stereo send as a stereo file (at the same time!) to save my life. I have to always render out all the mono sends as a separate render pass and babysit the whole process. If I choose to use a render Queue, then the renders are never placed in the project... so I have to babysit.


Example Project:

In this project, I have a stereo perc track and a mono snare track. I send the stereo perc track to a Stereo Process buss (track 3) and the mono snare track to a mono process bus (track 4). Simple enough... right? But I can't get it to do it.





Here is a small 6MB Zip file of the session above with all my settings.

--> Small Example Test Project (6MB) <--


Anyone want to take a stab at this?

[Tod]

Hi Andrew,

I've always done this in real time, which I know your don't want to do. I don't think there's any other
way, all the renders seem to be either stereo or mono.

Ha, if its a long render you could set it up to render in real time, go have some coffee or have a beer,
then come back when it's all done.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by Tod

Hi Andrew,

I've always done this in real time, which I know your don't want to do. I don't think there's any other
way, all the renders seem to be either stereo or mono.

Ha, if its a long render you could set it up to render in real time, go have some coffee or have a beer,
then come back when it's all done.

Thanks Tod,

It doesn't make a difference whether it is realtime or not. When trying to render mono busses along with stereo busses to respective stems, the stems for the mono busses will always render as stereo files:



If you could download that small file I posted and try to get tracks 3 and 4 to render as Stereo and Mono in 1 render... I can't do it. Is there any way to for Reaper into thinking a Bus or (track without media on it) is MONO?

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Thonex

If you could download that small file I posted and try to get tracks 3 and 4 to render as Stereo and Mono in 1 render... I can't do it. Is there any way to for Reaper into thinking a Bus or (track without media on it) is MONO?

Actually I did check it out. If you don't mind rendering in real time it's pretty simple, especially if you want the rendered files back in reaper. By rendering the outputs you can render any number of tracks whether they're stereo or mono.

So taking your RPP you posted you can right click on the Arm button for the "Stereo Porcess" and select "Record: output/Record: outupt (stereo)". Then right click on the Arm button for the "Monto Porcess" and select "Record: output/Record: output (mono)".

Then it's just a matter of arming those two tracks and hitting record. If you want to get fancy and don't want to monitor while recording, you can set up a "stop recording action" on an action marker.

Also if you record with the FX on, be sure and take them off the tracks when they are done. Also, if the faders are not at 0.0dB then they should be set to 0.0dB when you're done recording so that they maintain their levels.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by Tod

Actually I did check it out. If you don't mind rendering in real time it's pretty simple, especially if you want the rendered files back in reaper. By rendering the outputs you can render any number of tracks whether they're stereo or mono.

So taking your RPP you posted you can right click on the Arm button for the "Stereo Porcess" and select "Record: output/Record: outupt (stereo)". Then right click on the Arm button for the "Monto Porcess" and select "Record: output/Record: output (mono)".

Then it's just a matter of arming those two tracks and hitting record. If you want to get fancy and don't want to monitor while recording, you can set up a "stop recording action" on an action marker.

Also if you record with the FX on, be sure and take them off the tracks when they are done. Also, if the faders are not at 0.0dB then they should be set to 0.0dB when you're done recording so that they maintain their levels.

Thanks Tod,

Interesting... I never right clicked on those buttons. So realtime it works ... but yes... you're right... I have WAY to much to do than to wait for all these renders in realtime. But I may explore some other right-clicks... like for the Record Output button (not the record arm button). For now, it's faster to set up 2 renders.. one for mono busses and one for stereo. Weird that it won't work offline.

[Thonex]

I FOUND A CHEAT!!!!!!

When rendering, if you put a mono file/item on the mono Buss and mute it, it will force the Buss to output a mono file even in an Offline Render mode. The mono item just has to be on the Buss "somewhere". It's somewhat of an ugly hack... since it may mess up item counts in scrips when doing big projects, but it works.

Just make sure to click "Tracks with mono media to only mono files" check box in the Render window.

Wow... Reaper really should have an option per track "Route as Mono (or stereo etc) when no items are on track".

Thanks again Tod... I need someone to spitball with!

[Tod]

Originally Posted by Thonex

I FOUND A CHEAT!!!!!!

When rendering, if you take a mono file/item on the mono Buss and mute it, it will force the Buss to output a mono file even in an Ofline Render mode. It just has to be on the Buss "somewhere". It's somewhat of an ugly hack... since it may mess up item counts in scrips when doing big projects, but it works.

Just make sure to click "Tracks with mono media to only mono files" check box in the Render window.

Wow... Reaper really should have an option per track "Route as Mono (or stereo etc) when no items are on track".

Thanks again Tod... I need someone to spitball with!

Ha ha, I've never even noticed "Tracks with mono media to only mono files" before, it appears to be checked as default. I've actually never tried to render both mono and stereo tracks at the same time through the "Render to File" to file dialog.

Good thinking putting a muted item on that bus.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by Tod

Ha ha, I've never even noticed "Tracks with mono media to only mono files" before, it appears to be checked as default. I've actually never tried to render both mono and stereo tracks at the same time through the "Render to File" to file dialog.

Good thinking putting a muted item on that bus.

Thanks Tod.

Instead of having to "trick" Reaper, I think it could easily be an option. Clearly by putting a mono file on that track satisfies a certain Reaper condition that allows it to give us this: "Tracks with mono media to only mono files". It would be nice to have that option on a track basis... so that you can have a buss behave like an actual mono track. When doing orchestral with center mics and yada-yada... it would so much better. Unless I'm missing something.

I'm still hoping for someone to chime in and say "here's the option you're looking for..."

LOL

[X-Raym]

There is no option unfortunately and adding an empty item on mono track is also the trick I made for a script few months ago ! :P

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by X-Raym

There is no option unfortunately and adding an empty item on mono track is also the trick I made for a script few months ago ! :P

Hi X-Raym,

Was it an empty item... or a mono file/item? That's not the same thing an an empty part. If an empty item works, then that's even better.

[X-Raym]

@Thonex
Empty item :P

[SonicAxiom]

when I trigger the action "Track: Render tracks to mono post-fader stem tracks (and mute originals)" while having the receiving track(s) selected, I'm getting a new track incl. a mono stem. It works for multiple selected receiving tracks. Isn't this what you want? You could use this inside a custom or cycle action to make it a single keystroke to render both stereo and mono busses.

Also (maybe a dumb question as I'm not sure to have fully understood your goal): what is bad about getting a stereo stem from ReaVerbate?
(trying to understand your workflow)

.

[serr]

Originally Posted by Thonex

I FOUND A CHEAT!!!!!!

When rendering, if you put a mono file/item on the mono Buss and mute it, it will force the Buss to output a mono file even in an Offline Render mode. The mono item just has to be on the Buss "somewhere". It's somewhat of an ugly hack... since it may mess up item counts in scrips when doing big projects, but it works.

Just make sure to click "Tracks with mono media to only mono files" check box in the Render window.

Wow... Reaper really should have an option per track "Route as Mono (or stereo etc) when no items are on track".

Thanks again Tod... I need someone to spitball with!

Nice one! I'll have to remember this the next time it comes up rendering stems.
(Goes without saying that it's not nice to deliver a mono stem in a stereo container!)

Rendering stereo and surround mix buses together works by simply selecting stereo but also ticking the box for 'multichannel to mch files' FYI.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by SonicAxiom

when I trigger the action "Track: Render tracks to mono post-fader stem tracks (and mute originals)" while having the receiving track(s) selected, I'm getting a new track incl. a mono stem. It works for multiple selected receiving tracks. Isn't this what you want? You could use this inside a custom or cycle action to make it a single keystroke to render both stereo and mono busses.

Also (maybe a dumb question as I'm not sure to have fully understood your goal): what is bad about getting a stereo stem from ReaVerbate?
(trying to understand your workflow)

.

Thanks SonicAxiom,

Thanks for sharing that tip. I’ll give your action a test to see if it can work in my workflow. Speaking of which, the reason I included the ReaVerberate insert on a mono send was for illustrative purposes. I don’t use that verb, but I’ll often use some other kind of processing on the mono spot mic or center mic channel of a Decca Tree that I will need to export a ton of files with. So keeping the file format the same as the original (mono in this case) is key.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by serr

Rendering stereo and surround mix buses together works by simply selecting stereo but also ticking the box for 'multichannel to mch files' FYI.

Yeah... I use those settings all the time. That’s why the whole mono issue was so puzzling. I wrote it up as a bug. I wish there was a track option (when right-clicking on a track)... something like “output this channel as a mono channel”.

[serr]

Originally Posted by Thonex

Yeah... I use those settings all the time. That’s why the whole mono issue was so puzzling. I wrote it up as a bug. I wish there was a track option (when right licking on a track)... something like “output this channel as a mono channel”.

Probably fallout from the minimum 2 track channel business that is apparently baked into Reaper's core. They must have written a workaround for following a mono item like that.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by serr

Probably fallout from the minimum 2 track channel business that is apparently baked into Reaper's core. They must have written a workaround for following a mono item like that.

Yeah... it's definitely that! It also rears its ugly head when trying to use proper VST mono-version plugins (like Altiverb's Mono versions of their stereo reverbs)... they don't even show up in the plugin list in Reaper. Instead, you have to use a stereo verb, and then open the I/O routing of that verb to disable the Right (or left) channel "wiring" of that plugin, then center pan etc etc.. it gets overly complex.

That's my biggest beef with Reaper: Its handling of mono tracks used as busses.

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by SonicAxiom

when I trigger the action "Track: Render tracks to mono post-fader stem tracks (and mute originals)" while having the receiving track(s) selected, I'm getting a new track incl. a mono stem. It works for multiple selected receiving tracks. Isn't this what you want?

.

OK... I see what you mean now. Actually, this wouldn't be a solution for me as I don't want to create destination tracks just to be able to render mono files from busses. Putting an empty item at the beginning of the project (my hack above in post #6) for any mono busses is the easiest way to approach this. .. barring writing a script like X-Raym surely has

[airon]

Yep, I do the same for all kinds of renders.

Originally Posted by Thonex

I FOUND A CHEAT!!!!!!

When rendering, if you put a mono file/item on the mono Buss and mute it, it will force the Buss to output a mono file even in an Offline Render mode. The mono item just has to be on the Buss "somewhere". It's somewhat of an ugly hack... since it may mess up item counts in scrips when doing big projects, but it works.

Just make sure to click "Tracks with mono media to only mono files" check box in the Render window.

Wow... Reaper really should have an option per track "Route as Mono (or stereo etc) when no items are on track".

Thanks again Tod... I need someone to spitball with!

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by airon

Yep, I do the same for all kinds of renders.

Thanks airon,

Good to know I'm not alone!!

Is this a "known thing" with Reaper? Do the Devs know about it? It seems that it would be trivial for them to add a Track option "force as mono track on exports" or similar since it can be tricked. Since you've been around since 2006, my guess is you'd have more "street cred" than I would if brought up to the devs.

[X-Raym]

@Thonex
If I remember well (the functions were in fact part of a bigger script), my script works by checking track name, if it has _mono suffix, then a empty item is added to it.


Simple as that ^^

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by X-Raym

@Thonex
If I remember well (the functions were in fact part of a bigger script), my script works by checking track name, if it has _mono suffix, then a empty item is added to it.


Simple as that ^^

Very cool X-Raym!! Nice work-around.

Having said that, it is a work-around for something as basic as a mono send and Reaper really should address this. Since you are a long-time community member/contributor, do you know if this is something that will be addressed or is on their Radar?

[X-Raym]

Having said that, it is a work-around for something as basic as a mono send and Reaper really should address this.

Definitly.

Since you are a long-time community member/contributor, do you know if this is something that will be addressed or is on their Radar?

I have no privilege :P All I know is what is posted on this forum.


So the answer is probably not, and I'm not sure there is a feature request thread where this issue has been adressed clearly (in first post).

[Thonex]

Originally Posted by X-Raym

Definitly.





I have no privilege :P All I know is what is posted on this forum.


So the answer is probably not, and I'm not sure there is a feature request thread where this issue has been adressed clearly (in first post).

Ok... this weekend I'm going to put a FR together.

Thanks.

[Birdy]

I'm glad to see you found a workaround.
I wonder if setting the Mono Bus Width to 0 will make Reaper recognize it as mono and then render it mono when "rendered mono tracks to mono files" is checked.