Old 10-14-2014, 01:49 PM   #1
booli
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Default Vice versa sidechain doesn't work (SOLVED)

Hi
The following architecture doesn't work, and causes two issues.

Final mix group
---Playback group ==> sends to Vocals sidechain
------Guitars group
---------gtr a
---------gtr b
---------...
---Vocals group ==> sends to Guitars sidechain

The issues caused by that are:
1. the sidechain sent to the guitar doesn't work (muted).
2. pressing the Play button starts loud crackles for 3-4 seconds (then the playback is stabilized, until next Play).

Have fun debugging this one... ^_^
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Old 10-14-2014, 04:50 PM   #2
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Seems to be a bit weird routing, guitars sidechaining the vocals sidechaining the guitars?
Anyway, can you upload a project (boilt down to the necessary tracks/plugins, no audio files needed - just the *.rpp, you can use the "Manage Attachments" thingie under your post formular) with that routing to make it possible to recreate the issue(s)?
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Old 10-15-2014, 01:14 PM   #3
Likko
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I must say that I don't understand what this routing is for either. Thinking about it caused my mind to almost have a meltdown!
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Old 10-15-2014, 02:36 PM   #4
VinodXAgent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booli View Post
Hi

Final mix group
---Playback group ==> sends to Vocals sidechain
------Guitars group
---------gtr a
---------gtr b
---------...
---Vocals group ==> sends to Guitars sidechain
Hi Booli,
just for clarification,
Final mix group = Master Buss ?
Are your groups grouped tracks or Folders or Subbusses?
Sidechaining a Compressor?
Vinod
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Old 10-15-2014, 08:40 PM   #5
EricM
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You've created a feedback loop routing, which reaper disables by default.
When enabled it breaks PDC, so not useful in most cases.

Solutions:

1) If you put the guitars out of 'playback group' it will work.

2) create another 'vox master' track to which 'vox group'
is routed, and send the signal from 'playback' there, now
move the FX to that track as well for sidechaining.

Why are you sending playback group to vocals anyway?

e
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Old 10-16-2014, 01:52 AM   #6
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@VinodXAgent
yes, final mix = master buss
grouping by foldering. BTW, does it differ than using buss? (because in the routing matrix it looks the same)
indeed sidechaining the compressor ^_^

@EricM
good question.
entire playback group is sent to the vocals group to sidechain Waves Vocal Rider (actually Melda MAutoVolume, but it less familiar, and as just the same. Sorry, not the same. BETTER! For much (much!!) less money)
vocals group is sent to the guitars to duck the mid range using a compressor with sidechain
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Old 10-16-2014, 02:09 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM View Post
2) create another 'vox master' track to which 'vox group'
is routed, and send the signal from 'playback' there, now
move the FX to that track as well for sidechaining.
e
It doesn't work. I guess we can't fool Reaper, and for it, it's just the same routing... :-(
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Old 10-16-2014, 02:40 AM   #8
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Ok got it. So afaik the 'vocal rider' should create a volume envelope,
so you feed it the signal once and bake the automation. Than enable
the guitar ducking to give vocal more space in the mix.

That 2) should work, unless the signal from master vox is somehow
routed back to 'playback group'. Could you post a rpp file with media
items stripped so we can check the routing?

Also to clarify: folder routing == send routing with master/parent ticked off.

e
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Old 10-16-2014, 03:13 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM View Post
Also to clarify: folder routing == send routing with master/parent ticked off.
Not quite, as in send routing you see the send draw in the mixer on, and in folder routing you can't see it (no send draws are on).

For your idea of creating envelope - great idea. thanks!

For uploading project - no prob. plus all the audio media? actually most of my project is midi+vst instruments, so I'm not sure if the media is really necessary or valuable for the troubleshooting. isn't it?
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Old 10-16-2014, 09:37 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
Anyway, can you upload a project (boilt down to the necessary tracks/plugins, no audio files needed - just the *.rpp, you can use the "Manage Attachments" thingie under your post formular) with that routing to make it possible to recreate the issue(s)?
I somehow feel ignored...
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Old 10-16-2014, 11:26 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gofer View Post
I somehow feel ignored...
He's just playing A Musical Joke.



e
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Old 10-16-2014, 01:17 PM   #12
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Haha! The line dude also tried e-guitar - once

Attached Images
File Type: jpg la linea electrocute.jpg (57.6 KB, 156 views)
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Old 10-16-2014, 02:10 PM   #13
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lol, I'm sure he couldn't bear the tension anymore, being constantly online
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Old 10-18-2014, 02:38 AM   #14
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Sorry @gofer for missing your post in my previous answer. I guess I was flooded with multitude suggestions..^_^

Anyway, the issue is resolved by setting on "Allow feedback in routing" in the Project Preferences - Advanced tab.

Thanks for the assistance!
Booli.
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Old 10-18-2014, 03:09 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by booli View Post
the issue is resolved by setting on "Allow feedback in routing" in the Project Preferences - Advanced tab.
Let me just say this again, this option breaks plug-in
delay compensation, which means you are likely introducing
phasing and timing issues in the mix.

e
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Old 10-18-2014, 01:19 PM   #16
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Oh... thanks for mention that once again.
So I'll just get off this double routing, by taking AutoVolume movement into an envelope once, and then remove the routing to it.
Thanks.
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