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05-21-2017, 11:17 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West Tennessee
Posts: 1,146
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ELI5: Automation Items
Would one of you kindly explain to me like i'm five, what are "automation items" and what benefit does this feature bring versus the previous method, which i guess was envelopes and lanes?
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05-21-2017, 11:18 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,794
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AIs are containers for envelope data, which you can loop and stretch and pool like regular items.
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05-21-2017, 12:42 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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It makes moving/copying/pasting automation data easier.
But it has issues too, if you dont need them, dont use them.
As an example, Copying/pooling to have automation sent to multiple locations is horrible.
While the copying/pooling is a great great idea, using it as a way to send automation to multiple locations just means that something like an EDM build up where you could have the same automation sent to 40-50 parameters, 40-50 lanes of automation instead of one, pretty easy to work out which is better.
__________________
Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
Last edited by Win Conway; 05-21-2017 at 01:08 PM.
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06-24-2017, 12:51 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,739
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w
It makes moving/copying/pasting automation data easier.
But it has issues too, if you dont need them, dont use them.
As an example, Copying/pooling to have automation sent to multiple locations is horrible.
While the copying/pooling is a great great idea, using it as a way to send automation to multiple locations just means that something like an EDM build up where you could have the same automation sent to 40-50 parameters, 40-50 lanes of automation instead of one, pretty easy to work out which is better.
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I guess I'll need a video, because I don't understand this paragraph.
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06-25-2017, 07:31 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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It is very doubtful that you need it then
__________________
Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
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06-26-2017, 07:26 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,672
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leaky containers
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06-27-2017, 08:13 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,891
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I'm seeing mixed un-itemed and itemed automation. is there a disadvantage to letting all automation always be an item, like an audio clip? i just don't think there should be a difference between an item and a non-item.
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06-27-2017, 08:25 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,794
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Backwards compatibility, I think.
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06-27-2017, 12:09 PM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,672
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reapercurious
I'm seeing mixed un-itemed and itemed automation. is there a disadvantage to letting all automation always be an item, like an audio clip? i just don't think there should be a difference between an item and a non-item.
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this has been a core issue and somewhat onesided conversation with this entire pre cycle.
the way it currently exists, if these automation lanes were audio tracks, you'd essentially have a tone generator (that you couldn't turn off) blasting your track with a sine wave in between your audio items, even if you only wanted audio within your audio item bounds.
Last edited by mccrabney; 06-27-2017 at 12:16 PM.
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06-27-2017, 01:36 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mccrabney
this has been a core issue and somewhat onesided conversation with this entire pre cycle.
the way it currently exists, if these automation lanes were audio tracks, you'd essentially have a tone generator (that you couldn't turn off) blasting your track with a sine wave in between your audio items, even if you only wanted audio within your audio item bounds.
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it would be a DC signal, even worse. unless there was A bit of logic that said "don't let Reaper do that"
as it stands, it is perfectly possible to create DC in Reaper and send it to the speakers.
currently, any audio clip may be used to modulate any parameter that an automation lane can.
this is a no brainer if seen in this light.
an automation envelope is an editable rectified signal.
i'm not saying that handling the automation system is trivial, it is very very complicated, so i would say to not go down the road of re-inventing the wheel. cut the losses. just base automation items on the same system that audio and midi clips use, but allow "inline editing" in a similar way that inline midi editing works, except on a sample level. like a pencil tool in sound forge. this could blast open waveform editing as well.
Last edited by reapercurious; 06-27-2017 at 02:02 PM.
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06-27-2017, 06:22 PM
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#11
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Banned
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,650
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I'm with mccrabney with this, not having the ability to disable the underlying envelope is missing a trick. The current system requires a mode that adds (or removes (live)) a horizontal/square line between the end of every automation item and the next point or automation item.
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06-28-2017, 06:34 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 3,672
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the problem seems to be a lack of considering solutions on all parts.
1- option to preserve determinstic seek/most similar to existing workflow.
A, when seeking in spaces without envelope data, reference/detect previous automation point value and use that.
B, in the case where there is not yet envelope data (for example, 1st track automation item occurs after play cursor, reference/detect the next/first point).
this would likely be the system i would use 90% of the time.
2- (as option) accept that use of MIDI ccs as envelope control has been nondeterministic on hardware controllers since the 80s and as option allow REAPER's automation system to behave the same way.
3- refer to other DAWs that behave as requested and determine how they do it. i've seen screenshots posted by other users who would have to chime in here.
Last edited by mccrabney; 06-28-2017 at 06:43 AM.
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06-28-2017, 04:17 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,826
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It was asked for on day 1, it is worth reminding the developers if you want it because so far the answer is no.
Energy XT worked perfectly many years ago, empty space was just treated as the last point on the previous item.
__________________
Stop posting huge images, smaller images or thumbnail, it's not rocket science!
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09-20-2017, 08:09 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w
It was asked for on day 1, it is worth reminding the developers if you want it because so far the answer is no.
Energy XT worked perfectly many years ago, empty space was just treated as the last point on the previous item.
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Just noticed this feature which I am very pleased to see in Reaper! It would be useful to include an option to disable the traditional continuous curve to work like Energy XT. The only problem is empty space before the first item, I guess it should just be treated as the first point of the first item. In FL Studio there are only automation items, no traditional automation, so every automated parameter must be initialized to a specific value to tell FL Studio what it should set the parameter to when the song starts playing.
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