SD2 mixer multi out question

[zydeceltico]

Hi all -

I've just started trying to use x-drums in SD2 after using SD2 for some months without exploring that option. I know how to multi-out (I thought) to send each individual kit piece to it's own trcak in Reaper - except that when I apply an x-drum in the vst it does not seem to send to a corresponding Reaper track.

Can someone explain to me how the routing works from the SD2 vst mixer to the multed Reaper tracks? Am I missing something in the bussing inside the vsti?

Thanks a bunch!

[planetnine]

Find out how the mics are configured for your x-drum and if necessary, separate them from like channels in the SD2 mixer (eg x-drum snare may output on regular snare mics, hence not separateable).

Once you're on separate mics, assign to new output channels and it can be patched to its own REAPER track.

Was this what you meant?

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[Nip]

Assuming SD2 is Superior Drummer 2, not Session Drummer 2.

Also assuming you loaded Vst so you get multiouts in Reaper.
At least 6-7 or so remaining tracks, it's probably what you need.

Each mike is output to a intermediate bus or out, that is then output to a vst out.
From start it's only stereo out meaning each mike is output to out 1/2.

Change each to out 1/2,out 3/4 and so on.

[planetnine]

As he said x-drums I was assuming Superior, and he did say he knew how to multi-out. You don't have to load the VST as multi-out anyway, it can done manually and does give you more flexibility with mono and stereo channels (a track template is good here).

I'm sure the mic assignment is the key here, without specifically setting it, the x-drum will output to a like channel in the SD2 mixer (eg snare with snare, kick with kick, etc), and a separate channel won't be possible. If he's already done this, then I guess he needs some help with manually setting up the output channel, routing pin and channel-routing send for it.

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[zydeceltico]

Hi Gang and thx for the feedback. It is Superior Drummer 2 and I do think you're right about it being the mic assignment - at least initially - or more specifically - the mapping to begin with. I don't think I have that down correctly. Are mapping and mic placement reliant on each other? OTH - in the SD2 mixer and after having created an x-drum, gone thru the mapping, and am playing the track, tracks for the x-drums are created in the mixer and I do see VU activity - in the VST - just not in any of the open channels I've created in Reaper.

From the SD2 mixer, when I change the mixer from stereo out to multi channel out - are the outs coming from the tracks themselves or from the actual outs on the far right? I guess a clearer way to ask is - when I mult out of the mixer to Reaper are the SD2 sends coming from the individual instrument tracks or from the Outs?

If so, do the seperate individual track channels default thru a single buss continuing to the outs? How do I route new outs from the vst to tracks in Reaper *after* I've already multi-channeled the vst into Reaper?


If anyone knows of a tutorial tht might clear this up for me - that would be great too! I've watched Toontrack's and I must be having a mental block. I am probably overcomplicating/overthinking this.

Also - when mapping x-drum articulations (e.g., x-snare: center, rimshot, right, left)- do the x-drum articulations need to be mapped to exactly the same articulations on the original snare? And what if the original snare doesn't have the same articulations as the new x-drum?

Thanks again for the help!

[Nip]

Originally Posted by zydeceltico

From the SD2 mixer, when I change the mixer from stereo out to multi channel out - are the outs coming from the tracks themselves or from the actual outs on the far right? I guess a clearer way to ask is - when I mult out of the mixer to Reaper are the SD2 sends coming from the individual instrument tracks or from the Outs?

If so, do the seperate individual track channels default thru a single buss continuing to the outs? How do I route new outs from the vst to tracks in Reaper *after* I've already multi-channeled the vst into Reaper?

I'm not using the "Multichannel" out alternative in SD2, I use the out 1/2, out 3/4 and so on on each mike.

And if you do that you would see meters moving to the far right as well where the corresponding outs are.

On the track in Reaper where SD2 is loaded I see sends from

audio 1/2->1/2 track 5 Kick
audio 3/4->1/2 track 6 Snare
audio 5/6->1/2 track 7 hihat
audio 7/8->1/2 track 8 toms
audio 9/10->1/2 track 9 cymbals
audio 11/12->1/2 track 10 ambience

etc

The number on the left correspond to the far right in SD2 mixer outs.

I have not used the x-drums part yet, but I assume this process is the same.

When you're done with something that works save in SD2 as combined presets as well as project save. Then you easily recall these for other instances of SD2.

Well, you probably do a track template in Reaper anyway of this with a track folder "Drums" incorporating SD, all outputs and input midi track as well. Very nice feature that.

[Nip]

Originally Posted by planetnine

As he said x-drums I was assuming Superior, and he did say he knew how to multi-out. You don't have to load the VST as multi-out anyway, it can done manually and does give you more flexibility with mono and stereo channels (a track template is good here).

I'm sure the mic assignment is the key here, without specifically setting it, the x-drum will output to a like channel in the SD2 mixer (eg snare with snare, kick with kick, etc), and a separate channel won't be possible. If he's already done this, then I guess he needs some help with manually setting up the output channel, routing pin and channel-routing send for it.

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Thanks, you don't have to add all tracks as multi from start, but can add one at a time and sign audio x/y->1/2 on any other track?

[planetnine]

That's the way I do it.

I set the SD2 mixer out channels manually; set the REAPER plug routing pins; drag the sends in the MCP to the tracks and set the track channels...

Of course mostly I do the above from pre-made templates

Once you have REAPER routing in your head, you can do all sorts entirely manually and quickly. Just a case of seeing the matrix!

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[Nip]

Originally Posted by planetnine

That's the way I do it.

I set the SD2 mixer out channels manually; set the REAPER plug routing pins; drag the sends in the MCP to the tracks and set the track channels...

Of course mostly I do the above from pre-made templates

Once you have REAPER routing in your head, you can do all sorts entirely manually and quickly. Just a case of seeing the matrix!

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Excellent, thanks. Very handy to do it bit by bit like that. Thought I might add separate for mid and far ambience and I don't have to redo the full procedure.

[zydeceltico]

Originally Posted by planetnine

That's the way I do it.

I set the SD2 mixer out channels manually; set the REAPER plug routing pins; drag the sends in the MCP to the tracks and set the track channels...


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You've mentioned the routing pins a couple of times now.....are talking about in the Routing Matrix?

I apologize for the noob line of questioning - - it just appears that I've created a completely different workflow that obviously doesn't take advantage of the real potential between SD2 and Reaper - - -so - - thank you for your patience and answers - you are really helping me get a handle on this!

[planetnine]

Not the track routing matrix, but the plugin channel routing matrix. It connects plugin input and output numbers to REAPER channel numbers within the track. You find it in the top right of any plugin's window.

I think you may need to explore the manual...


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[zydeceltico]

Thanks Nathan. lol - yeah - the manual - all of the manuals - lol

Actually - that little tidbit of information you just gave me just turned on a major light bulb for me that answered a host of questions I have had. I think I just lept forward in understanding by light years!

Thanks a bunch guys! Love Reaper, love this forum!

[zydeceltico]

Of course - now after having looked at it - and not knowing exactly where to look in the manual - but I promise I will - really - I have SD on track 5 multed out from track 5 - 37 with vox, bass, and gtr on tracks 1 - 3 and a drum buss folder on track 4. The plug in pin connector matrix however shows SD track 1 being routed to Reaper track 1 - which isn't the case and when I play back the tune I've ben working on all of the multed individual drums show vu activity on tracks 5 - 37. So why does the plug in connector show the tracks being routed to tarcks 1 -4 in Reaper?

Thanks again!

[Nip]

Originally Posted by zydeceltico

Of course - now after having looked at it - and not knowing exactly where to look in the manual - but I promise I will - really - I have SD on track 5 multed out from track 5 - 37 with vox, bass, and gtr on tracks 1 - 3 and a drum buss folder on track 4. The plug in pin connector matrix however shows SD track 1 being routed to Reaper track 1 - which isn't the case and when I play back the tune I've ben working on all of the multed individual drums show vu activity on tracks 5 - 37. So why does the plug in connector show the tracks being routed to tarcks 1 -4 in Reaper?

Thanks again!

Track one in Reaper in not the same as Channel 1.

The pin connector matrix shows channels corresponding in Reaper - not Reaper tracks.

Each track has a number of available audio channels you can use to route stuff to and from anywhere, justabout. In the I/O-dialog you see these listed as Audio combobox.

[planetnine]

In a conventional console, a "channel" is usually just that -a single mono channel running through a channel strip on the console.

Usually it gets split after the pan control to allow variable send to two or three busses (left right, centre -or more in surround), and there are also stereo channels which treat both sides of the audio identically until the balance control.

In REAPER a decision was made not to make this distinction and a single channel type was chosen (which also allows MIDI); they were also called tracks as they are the front end to a track on a multitrack recorder.

This alternative thinking developed into allowing more than stereo, more than two channels per track and REAPER gained the capability of up to 64 channels of audio. This allowed multichannel interaction with plugins and with routing plugs, parallel streams of audio and processing too.

The track channel interface with plugin in and outs is the pin routing matrix; this allows you to choose how signals enter and exit the plug, and gives you "internal plumbing" for intermediate signals that you won't want to allow on the mixer busses.

Sends from one track to another have channel controls too -this allows you to send a control signal from one track to a higher-number channel in another -possibly through a conditioning EQ on that channel -and into the sidechain input of a plugin controlling the dynamics of that track. Splitter and combiner JS plugins allow advanced routing within a single track too.

The send channel controls are how the multichannel outputs of SD2 are sent (via the pin routing matrix and REAPER track channels) to different REAPER tracks. Once you get the hang of manually setting up or tweaking those you can send dozens of pick+mix mono and stereo signals to different tracks in REAPER, making the most of SD2's effect channels and X-Drums within its 32-channel output range (if you send all drums out as stereo pairs you are limited to 16 stereo outs).

I can have a large SD2 drum kit setup in addition to one with Latin Percussion running (with Twisted Kit X-Drums) all sending to individual tracks so it can be printed to wav for archiving or mixing in PT -it's not difficult once you master the channels

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[planetnine]

Originally Posted by zydeceltico

Of course - now after having looked at it - and not knowing exactly where to look in the manual - but I promise I will - really - I have SD on track 5 multed out from track 5 - 37 with vox, bass, and gtr on tracks 1 - 3 and a drum buss folder on track 4. The plug in pin connector matrix however shows SD track 1 being routed to Reaper track 1 - which isn't the case and when I play back the tune I've ben working on all of the multed individual drums show vu activity on tracks 5 - 37. So why does the plug in connector show the tracks being routed to tarcks 1 -4 in Reaper?

Thanks again!

I think you're getting SD2 and REAPER channels mixed up with REAPER tracks. SD2 sends to its plugin channels (output numbers). They go through the pin matrix to REAPER channel numbers. They are sent with track sends to other REAPER tracks. Hope you can follow this.

I haven't got the latest manual in front of me (only my printed v4.10 version) so I can't give you relevant page numbers, but you want to look in chapter 15 for the pin matrix in action (pics in 15.1, 15.2, 15.3 of pin matrix and send controls).

I really don't ever use the procedure described in chapter 3.29 -I do it manually and save common setups as track templates. I don't have anything from SD2 going to channels 1/2 -it's all from 3 onwards and the track with the VST on it doesn't output any audio itself (all sends to other tracks).


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[zydeceltico]

Again - thx you guys - Basic stuff but oh so eye-opening - I understand now that I am actually looking at channels in the plugin pin connector and that concept I totally get.

One last thing - in SD2 and in regards to the articulations of each snare (the original kit piece and the x-drum that I wish to join to it) do I need to drop the articulation for say the x-drum's center onto the original snare drums center, the x-drum flam onto the orginal snare's flam, sidestick onto sidestick, etc? This is of course assuming that I want to hear the combination of the two snares all of the time. I do understand that I could just as easily join an x-drum snare with a cymbal. I get that. What I don't get is if I want to join an x-drum to an existing drum across all articulations.

Thanks!

Tim

[zydeceltico]

I figured it out! Thx again for all of the help!

[planetnine]

You can get your X-Drum to "steal" the default instruments mapping, you can get it to game on the 2nd position in the mapping table or you can manually assign the articulations to any MIDI note you wouldn't use in the default kit.

If you want to stack drum sounds onto the default then you use "nodes". Read the manual from about page 30 as it's quite involved -you can actually change the mix of the two drums over the input velocity range using a pair of velocity response graphs, I use it to morph to a more ringy live snare at the top end of the MIDI values for some styles.

Edit: sorry, I should have refreshed the page before replying. Glad you're all sorted -happy drumming

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[zydeceltico]

Thank you again for all of the great info!

[zydeceltico]

Well -

I came across something else I can't seem to find n answer for in the manual or in tutorials regarding mapping articualtions and joiing x-drums.

I'm trying to use the Mtal Machine kit as my base kit and I want to join the MM snare with an x-drum snare from avatar.

The MM snare has a seperate left and right articulation but no center while the avatar snare only has a center. 70% of the time, I am using edited grooves instead of playing new grooves on the keyboard.

Do I need to map the center articulations of the avatar snare to both the left and right articulations of the MM snare? And if I do this - given that several keys are default mapped for left and right ont he MM kit - how do I know which are the correct keys to map the avatar center to in order for the joined x-drum to sound every time there is an MM snare hit on either left or right while using/playing a groove? Or does it matter? Does SD2 recognize my mapping of the avatar center articulation to ANY key mapped to any MM snare left and right?

Hope this is a clear question. Thanks a bunch!

Tim

[planetnine]

Not a clear question I'm struggling to follow that last bit of it, but I don't have the MM library.

I would say if your grooves use and need the left and right snare articularions, just map them onto the Avatar centre articulation using a MIDI redirect plugin.

You're not stacking the MM and Avatar snares are you? SD2 will alternate left and right hits on SDX snares by default anyway. You sure this is L and R hits on the same MM snare not different snares, or even the kick drums? (I know there're two of them).

As I said, I don't have MM so I'm a bit lost how to help here...



Edit: I think I get it. You need to find out which MIDI notes or hits your grooves are using.

Find the MM mapping and use it to name the notes in your piano roll; this is worth doing as you can save this for each drum library as a naming file and it helps your workflow no end.

If its a simple L and R to Centre articulation mapping, then move the notes in the MIDI editor or redirect them with a plug. If it's more complex then you might have to try "stealing default" in a test project to see what it does.

I name the notes for all my SDX and EZX libraries and save them for future use in other projects. It really helps when you're looking for "spare notes" to map to

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