v4.0alpha26 - Pitch Shifting Fun!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gofer]

+ MIDI editor: if only CC events selected in piano roll view, event properties dialog edits them

Thanks a huge bunch. This helps tremendously already . But why is there the "if only CC events are selected" restriction? Can it be made so that on a mixed selection the event properties is opened as well (or just ditch the note properties extra-thingie altogether)?

And please, add "Edit: Set events to channel xx" to the piano roll (and rename Cmd ID 40420 to 40435 to this name in the event list, as that's what they do there). Pretty pleees .


YAY! customizeable CC context!
Loosely related: The CC-lane context as well as the "hide/clear/set/add" context on the lane dividers won't come up in the inline editor. The former never did, but the latter is there in 3.x (I don't know exactly when it broke, but very early on in the alpha cycle).


Boy, this is rolling along really nice. Thanks for this awesome development ride. Having a great time here and hope so do you.




@mabian:

Originally Posted by mabian

Now that there is the ability to ghost items, what about adding MIDI item velocity envelopes (a trim, just like the track Pre-FX Volume, but at item level)?

This would allow using the same source MIDI data but tweaking the velocities offsets differently for each pooled instance.

Thank you!

- Mario

That's already done by the ordinary item volume and fade handles. Only nobody knows about it .

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by mabian

Currently only per track pre-fx volume envelope affects MIDI velocities, acting as a trim on the velocities of the MIDI inside the items in the track (useful for velocity crescendo, attenutation or increase and so on). When the envelope is at 0dB, velocities are played like in the original MIDI data. This already works, in v3 too, even for non ghosted MIDI items.

I'd like to have a per item envelope doing the same, for ghosted and non ghosted items; now, since we can have different item envelopes for the various instances of a pooled MIDI item, this would allow having a pool instance with velocities increased and another one with velocities decreased. THe MIDI data inside the item would be the same of course.

Very flexible and useful imo.

- Mario

We can do that with items' gain lines but I agree with you, an envelope would be more versatile.

[mabian]

Originally Posted by gofer

@mabian:

That's already done by the ordinary item volume and fade handles. Only nobody knows about it .

Uh I didn't know about fades handles!

That's very interesting mr MIDI diver, makes the envelopes less needed but it would be nice to have anyway.

Thank you,
Mario

[gofer]

Ah, yeah. That's right. I agree.

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by gofer

+ MIDI editor: if only CC events selected in piano roll view, event properties dialog edits them

Thanks a huge bunch. This helps tremendously already . But why is there the "if only CC events are selected" restriction? Can it be made so that on a mixed selection the event properties is opened as well (or just ditch the note properties extra-thingie altogether)?

And please, add "Edit: Set events to channel xx" to the piano roll (and rename Cmd ID 40420 to 40435 to this name in the event list, as that's what they do there). Pretty pleees .

YAY! customizeable CC context!
Loosely related: The CC-lane context as well as the "hide/clear/set/add" context on the lane dividers won't come up in the inline editor. The former never did, but the latter is there in 3.x (I don't know exactly when it broke, but very early on in the alpha cycle).

Boy, this is rolling along really nice. Thanks for this awesome development ride. Having a great time here and hope so do you.

+1 on everything!


So, we can completely rename CCs now? Awesome! Is it done via note name files?


I also agree with gofer's suggestion about mixed selection (should allow showing ONLY note properties OR ONLY CC properties depending on the action we run), and about Set events to channel xx!

[mabian]

I don't think we can customize CC names, only context menu.

Bug: I added a note in ME and then a CC event (CC#2: breath) by double clicking in the CC lane.

Then right clicked the CC bar to choose "item properties" and tweak it; the CC was deleted; understandable though not nice.

The problem is that undoing doesn't bring back the deleted CC!

Thanks,
Mario

[gofer]

Originally Posted by EvilDragon

So, we can completely rename CCs now? Awesome! Is it done via note name files?

That's a misunderstanding. As much as I hope for friendly CC names, this feature is "just" the context menu when rightclicking in a CC lane. Still an awesome enhancement


EDIT: Mabian, what did you change in the properties? The events should not vanish, just - in case you edit the CC number or event type - they should (and do) appear elsewhere. Of course that could be a CC lane you have currently hidden.
Undo works here, but I have to close the properties dialog. Maybe it should be a modeless (and dockable ) dialog, like item properties?

[EvilDragon]

Ah, CONTEXT. I missed that one! D'oh!


Well, perhaps in a27 we'll see extended support for renaming CCs via named note files. As one wise member of the forum said: "Patience, grasshopper."

[musicbynumbers]

Originally Posted by mabian

Uh I didn't know about fades handles!

That's very interesting mr MIDI diver, makes the envelopes less needed but it would be nice to have anyway.

Thank you,
Mario

Right click a MIDI item, take, take volume envelope.

As far as I remember that item envelope relatively affects the notes velocity adding or subtracting relative to the the original level BUT there is a preference for allowing this I think in media item prefs.

[mabian]

Originally Posted by gofer

That's a misunderstanding. As much as I hope for friendly CC names, this feature is "just" the context menu when rightclicking in a CC lane. Still an awesome enhancement


EDIT: Mabian, what did you change in the properties? The events should not vanish, just - in case you edit the CC number or event type - they should (and do) appear elsewhere. Of course that could be a CC lane you have currently hidden.
Undo works here, but I have to close the properties dialog. Maybe it should be a modeless (and dockable ) dialog, like item properties?

Here is a screenshot; CC deletion does not go to undo queue it seems; I just right click the CC.

EDIT: same for insert with double click - not stored in undo.

[IMG]http://img823.**************/img823/9265/ccvanish.gif[/IMG]

- Mario

[musicbynumbers]

I have a key set to open it but it cannot close it whilst it is focused.

Hopefully this will get sorted at some point, if we are not naming stuff then all keys should pass to the main actions right?

[mabian]

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

Right click a MIDI item, take, take volume envelope.

As far as I remember that item envelope relatively affects the notes velocity adding or subtracting relative to the the original level BUT there is a preference for allowing this I think in media item prefs.

Thanks, last time I tried this didn't work on MIDI velocities; will give it another spin.

- Mario

[gofer]

Originally Posted by mabian

Here is a screenshot; CC deletion does not go to undo queue it seems; I just right click the CC.

[image removed]

- Mario

Hmm, delete CC and undo works here. Must be more to it. I understood your previous post wrong, I guess. I thought you opened properties for the event and it disappeared.


EDIT: P.s.: Take volume envelope doesn't affect MIDI velocity, never did, afaik.

[Evgeny Bardyuzha]

Originally Posted by Xenakios

Would it be extremely painful to make the pitch envelopes also work for playrate change (without time compensation), for resampled pitch coolness?

+100000000

+ MIDI: always un-pool MIDI when splitting
and also, please, make this optional

[mabian]

Originally Posted by gofer

Hmm, delete CC and undo works here. Must be more to it.

The plot thickens. Also adding a CC event through double click doesn't add the action to the undo queue.

EDIT: dragging CCs work, it's the double click (to insert) and right click (to delete) thing that won't go to undo queue :O

- Mario

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by musicbynumbers

Right click a MIDI item, take, take volume envelope.

As far as I remember that item envelope relatively affects the notes velocity adding or subtracting relative to the the original level BUT there is a preference for allowing this I think in media item prefs.

That doesn't work with take envelopes MBN, only with items' gain line (and fades).

[gofer]

Originally Posted by mabian

The plot thickens. Also adding a CC event through double click doesn't add the action to the undo queue.

- Mario

Confirmed. I also confirm something odd with CC deletion and the undo list. Can't make a proper rhyme out of it yet, but it definitely often goes wrong. But not always.

[mabian]

Cross linked in general alpha bug thread; thanks for confirming!

- Mario

[SEA]

Originally Posted by urednik

Wait, did I get it right that now we have the desired pitch bend possibility with envelopes? (did not test that yet)

Than WOWWWW! Thanks!

And this means that I only enable pitch as FX and than just edit the envelope?

This would be a milestone for me

How would this be cool in real world application (musically). I'm still pretty old school and new to Reaper so if someone could put up some audio demos and give more detailed explanation that would be cool.

[urednik]

I was to quick in my response.
We need a Reatune bending option. This is still not there.

Yeah real world of course. But working with those tools surely improves your intonation skills as either singer or instrumentalist.

Worked for me every time since I bought my first tuner (long ago in the elementary school I just was not aware of my biased perception).

[drew]

Yayy to maintaining traditional MIDI copy/paste behaviour by default.. loving the option to toggle + new "pool & paste" action is great too. Thank you!

+ MIDI: always un-pool MIDI when splitting

This was a surprise - I didn't see any discussion of it in alpha 25 thread and can't see why it would not follow the settings for pasting as, for a moment, it did. I'm a "don't trim when splitting MIDI" type and hoped to make extensive use of individual parts of pooled MIDI source this way.

One of the first things I did in testing the new pooling functionality was to build an 8 bar drum pattern, then split it up to use the different parts of it across the timeline - I think that would be quite a common thing to do in loop-based work (say repeating a single bar from a 4 bar pattern a few times).

Being able to have them pooled from the same full pattern data was a really nice touch and it seemed in that area we were getting ever closer to the same paradigm as audio by splitting up the shared references.

So is the plan that we would only access parts of a pooled MIDI source by dragging in the edges? It's obviously possible to do it that way but not as fast and so I'm wondering why it changed again in a26.

Thanks!

Drew

[Modular]

Pitch Envelopes Amazing guys for doing this.

Would be great if you added some simple presets like Tape stop FX and so on. Or the Ability to save pitch presets would be super cool.

Thanks again for this, I am a happy man.


WOULD LOVE IT IF WE COULD BE ABLE TO AUTOMATE the wet and dry signal on item FX to....... This would be the best start to item automation

[mabian]

Well, actually we need item envelopes, that is the ability to automate parameters of item FX.

- Mario

[Reflected]

the pitch shift has "unrealistic" side effect...

please consider adding Item pitch bend as well:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=72015

[Modular]

It would be great if we could apply pitch envelope presets to multiple items at once.

Also I think it would be better if we had a pitch envelope window or just an envelope window with properties where we could save presets, then apply them to one or multiple items at the same time.

Still keep the envelopes on the items as well though so you can edit indiviual items also.

Surely we could use and envelope editor with presets and be able to use it for all the take envelope uses, i.e for volume, pan and so on.

Would be nice to integrate the sws envelope generator too to have all the LFO presets.

[Jae.Thomas]

wish there was a simple resample mode for that

[Modular]

Originally Posted by mabian

Well, actually we need item envelopes, that is the ability to automate parameters of item FX.

I am with you on this +1000

We need an envelope editor window, with preset properties.
The envelope window would allow you to save envelope shapes as presets.
You could then apply these presets to item, or multiple items at once.
Maybe a check box for the parameters you would like to effect, such as pitch, volume, wet/dry item FX.

Anyway just an idea, but it would be amazing for sound designers and for doing amazing item FX

[Reflected]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

*which* there was a simple resample mode for that

which -> wish ?

aha +1

Pitch bend envelope + real time visuals:
[img]http://img705.**************/img705/1737/pitch.gif[/img]

[Arnar]

Ok , that's it I give up.

I was not going to install 4 until it was released, can't do this anymore.
The pitch envelope closed the deal.

Couple of questions and I'm off.

How can I set up 4 with all my presets and settings from 3 ?

Are you guys using 4 on day to day basis , for work ?

Thanks!

[Fabian]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

v4.0alpha26 - January 6 2011
+ Envelopes: per-take pitch shift envelopes

This is great fun! And useful...

Small nitpick: Once enabled in the menu, right-click > Take > Take pitch envelope, the check mark never goes away. Whether the pitch envelope is on or not, the check mark on the menu stays. Same for the other take envelopes (pan, volume, mute).

[synth]

- How about an option to hide the marker/region area (the three stripes) above the arrange view ruler?
Users who don't use / need this area should be able to reclaim the wasted vertical screen space.

- Also an option for a thinner ruler if you *don't* use the dual view (e.g. measures/beats + min/sec)

[Jae.Thomas]

Originally Posted by Arnar

Ok , that's it I give up.

I was not going to install 4 until it was released, can't do this anymore.
The pitch envelope closed the deal.

Couple of questions and I'm off.

How can I set up 4 with all my presets and settings from 3 ?

Are you guys using 4 on day to day basis , for work ?

Thanks!

first, back up everything having to do with your old reaper.

Copy your program files/REAPER folder to a safe place.

go into your typical reaper installation,

options/show resource path in finder/explorer

copy all of these files

paste them in the /REAPER directory that you put in a safe place.

then, download the latest alpha to the original destination.

you will have a copy of your old .ini's and other files. If you have other users that use reaper, their settings may not be saved in the same way.

[synth]

Originally Posted by mabian

Well, actually we need item envelopes

+1000

[Arnar]

Thank you Jason !

[xpander]

Originally Posted by Fabian

Small nitpick: Once enabled in the menu, right-click > Take > Take pitch envelope, the check mark never goes away. Whether the pitch envelope is on or not, the check mark on the menu stays. Same for the other take envelopes (pan, volume, mute).

Hmm, doesn't happen here. With or without any editing, the envelope(s) will remain. But as soon as Clear or remove envelope is selected and "Would you also like to remove the envelope completely" is OK´d, there are no check marks left in menu here.


edit:

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

Can someone please confirm if the new per-take pitch envelope is working with 24-bit files (wav/aiff)? Other bit-depths seem to work correctly.

Here it seems all 24-bit files will get imported with varying playrates to begin with, even though I haven't touched them nor made any pitch/rate changes!?

Ok, further check shows that the actual pitch envelope works on 24-bit files here.

When item is looped, you can draw different envelope shape there, but this is neglected and the envelope over the source is used. When the looped section is split into separate item, the pitch envelope over it becomes effective. To me this seems logical behaviour, but I wonder if there's chance for some confusion also?

[schwa]

Originally Posted by Fabian

Once enabled in the menu, right-click > Take > Take pitch envelope, the check mark never goes away. Whether the pitch envelope is on or not, the check mark on the menu stays. Same for the other take envelopes (pan, volume, mute).

The check mark means "the envelope exists". For per-take envelopes, if the envelope is not visible, it's bypassed, but the check mark tells you it is there waiting to be unbypassed. If you literally delete the envelope (right click it and select clear, then say yes to the prompt "do you want to delete the envelope completely") the check mark should go away.

[schwa]

Originally Posted by dub3000

sad about the 'split always unpools MIDI item' thing :-(

Sorry, this change was a mis-think. The issue is that the preferences that controlled when MIDI gets unpooled on split were hard to follow. Instead what we will do is this:

- Existing MIDI pools are are always preserved when splitting an item.

- Splitting an item never creates a MIDI pool (that is, splitting an unpooled item will not add both halves of the split to a new MIDI pool).

- The preference to trim MIDI on split will never apply to a pooled MIDI item, therefore does not force splitting to un-pool MIDI.

So no new preference options. If you specifically create a MIDI pool and then split it, the burden is on you to un-pool the pieces if that is what you want.

Does that make sense?

[Reflected]

shcwa

is there away to use the item pitch envelope with simple resample mode ?

[mabian]

Makes sense for me, I was thinking if the trim on split option could stay and a note be added "(causes unpool when splitting pooled items)"...

Either way is fairly intuitive and simple if you ask me (did you? )

- Mario

[xpander]

Originally Posted by schwa

- Existing MIDI pools are are always preserved when splitting an item.
- Splitting an item never creates a MIDI pool (that is, splitting an unpooled item will not add both halves of the split to a new MIDI pool).
- The preference to trim MIDI on split will never apply to a pooled MIDI item, therefore does not force splitting to un-pool MIDI.

Makes sense to me also.