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Old 03-09-2015, 08:27 PM   #1
JHughes
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Default v5.0pre16 - March 9 2015

v5.0pre16 - March 9 2015
# AU: fixed automation
# Automation: fixed inserting envelope point when take playrate has been edited
# MIDI editor: display half note triplet grid properly
# Mixer: properly scale/clip background when minimum size is used
# Mouse modifiers: added modifer to adjust item contents and right edge
# ReaScript: do not prompt to launch a new deferred instance, terminate the script instead
# Send automation: fixed recording automation when send envelope is set to fader scaling
# Time map: when using project time timebase, always use beats timebase for normal midi items
# VST: fixed renaming plugins (broken in 948f3383c)
# WALTER: added trackcolor_valid, trackcolor_r/g/b values for use
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Old 03-09-2015, 09:59 PM   #2
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wondering what the bit of WALTER allows doing?
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Old 03-09-2015, 10:14 PM   #3
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Great to see a new pre... However:

#jesuiscosmic
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Old 03-09-2015, 10:37 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by JHughes View Post
v5.0pre16 - March 9 2015
# ReaScript: do not prompt to launch a new deferred instance, terminate the script instead
I've lost so much time trying to code a workaround and now you fix it? You should communicate more what are you going to fix or not. I know people start posting off topic in the pre threads and it is difficult for you to come here more often. Is there a hidden forum for coders or something?

But please this is not the way to fix the issue. We have gone backwards. I want to be able to launch several instances of a looping script. How can we achieve that now?

Even more, I want to have several instances of a script and a variable that I can retrieve that returns the instance number.

I have an idea. Could we force to launch an additional script instance if CTRL key is being pressed while we click on the toolbar button for example?

Last edited by heda; 03-10-2015 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 03-09-2015, 11:29 PM   #5
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Could someone explain midi items always on timebase beats when project is on timebase time
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Old 03-09-2015, 11:35 PM   #6
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Could someone explain midi items always on timebase beats when project is on timebase time
midi items to be always with timebase beats even if you set the project or track to time timebase. I think this is to avoid confusion of expecting midi items to be time based when they are not.

to have midi item start to time you must change it in the item properties. "Ignore project tempo"
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Old 03-09-2015, 11:38 PM   #7
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wondering what the bit of WALTER allows doing?
Me too
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Old 03-09-2015, 11:43 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by heda View Post
midi items to be always with timebase beats even if you set the project or track to time timebase. I think this is to avoid confusion of expecting midi items to be time based when they are not.

to have midi item start to time you must change it in the item properties. "Ignore project tempo"
thanks for that and that makes sense.
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Old 03-10-2015, 12:38 AM   #9
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Quote:
# Mouse modifiers: added modifer to adjust item contents and right edge
Absolutely brilliant!


Quote:
# ReaScript: do not prompt to launch a new deferred instance, terminate the script instead
Off to test this one...


Quote:
# WALTER: added trackcolor_valid, trackcolor_r/g/b values for use
Waiting for more info on that new WALTER feature.


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Old 03-10-2015, 12:58 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by heda View Post
midi items to be always with timebase beats even if you set the project or track to time timebase. I think this is to avoid confusion of expecting midi items to be time based when they are not.

to have midi item start to time you must change it in the item properties. "Ignore project tempo"
Imho it only consolidates confusion. You set the project to absolute timebase, yet MIDI items don't respect it. How is that not utterly confusing?
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Old 03-10-2015, 01:02 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Banned View Post
Imho it only consolidates confusion. You set the project to absolute timebase, yet MIDI items don't respect it. How is that not utterly confusing?
You are right. In project settings or track settings it should say "Time (except midi items)"
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Old 03-10-2015, 01:51 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by JHughes View Post
v5.0pre16 - March 9 2015
# ReaScript: do not prompt to launch a new deferred instance, terminate the script instead
A short note/reminder here... After this update ^ it might be a good idea for deferred scripts to report toggle states too (only possible in v5). Also, the list of running scripts can be found in Main menu > Actions.
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Originally Posted by heda View Post
I want to be able to launch several instances of a looping script. How can we achieve that now?
You can just copy the script. Out of curiosity, can you please detail this use-case where you'd need to run several instances of the same script?
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:10 AM   #13
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Hi jeffos, I'm just guessing but I think an example of running more than one script of the same name might have been a recent script being worked on which gives you a headphone mixer based on the receives of that track (sound familiar?) so it would kind of make sense being able to run it multiple times on different tracks for different headphone mixers to be shown.

It might be better though (as you say) to rename them "headphone mixes 1" then "2" etc anyway so we have the ability to have toggle state toolbar buttons for each one instead.
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:12 AM   #14
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# Mouse modifiers: added modifer to adjust item contents and right edge

Thanks for this, going to try it now!

It is so useful, does it work with adjacent edges too like the demo you did Schwa? That was useful too. (I'll check)

EDIT: tried it and it does! awesome!

This is also going to help with treating a bunch of audio in reaper like it was in a 2 track editor like wavelab/soundforge when you move cut it (ripple etc) so awesome there too!
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Last edited by musicbynumbers; 03-10-2015 at 02:35 AM.
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:32 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
You can just copy the script. Out of curiosity, can you please detail this use-case where you'd need to run several instances of the same script?
Well.. I guess copying the script is a solution. Not many scripts could use multiple instances. So you are right. That would solve some other issues too. Why I didn't think about it... Thanks as always.

For example for my Notes Reader script. http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=155928
To have one reader in one screen reading from one track, and another reader reading notes from another track on another screen.

edit: after reading spk77 and musicbynumbers posts, I've seen there are more scripts that would use multiple instances. So.. Let's talk about it more

Last edited by heda; 03-10-2015 at 02:48 AM.
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:39 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
You can just copy the script. Out of curiosity, can you please detail this use-case where you'd need to run several instances of the same script?
Here's an example where it would be useful (musicbynumbers already mentioned this):

Send/HW out mixer:
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Old 03-10-2015, 02:51 AM   #17
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What could we do? I like that terminating the script is good for the toggle button toolbar. But I also see the need for multiple instances.

Maybe we need to define an optional property in the toolbar button, that is going to be used as a one instance toggling script only. Then for all the rest of the cases, like keyboard shortcuts, or running from actions window, it should open multiple instances.

Or better: Analyze the script code to see if it is reporting toggle state, then use one instance only for that script. I think that's already done since I Can see on/off in actions state column for those scripts.
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Old 03-10-2015, 03:12 AM   #18
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About ReaScripts multiple instances:
Maybe we could indicate via a function right in the script code, if new script instances can be executed or if launching the script again terminate the other instances.
IMHO, the Multiple Instances script problem cannot be corrected globally for all plugin. It has to be done on a 'per script logic'. So, it it would be in source code, with API function.

EDIT:
Something like
  • MultiInstance(-1) would tell that the script can only have one instance
  • MultiInstance(0) woulde.be user inout based via dialog box
  • MultiInstance(1) for allowing multiple instances.

What is sure is that we need to be able to launch several instances of some scripts.

Last edited by X-Raym; 03-10-2015 at 03:36 AM.
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Old 03-10-2015, 03:34 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heda View Post
What could we do? I like that terminating the script is good for the toggle button toolbar. But I also see the need for multiple instances.

Maybe we need to define an optional property in the toolbar button, that is going to be used as a one instance toggling script only. Then for all the rest of the cases, like keyboard shortcuts, or running from actions window, it should open multiple instances.

Or better: Analyze the script code to see if it is reporting toggle state, then use one instance only for that script. I think that's already done since I Can see on/off in actions state column for those scripts.
Is there a way to have the script itself act as a "master" for "child scripts" that can be triggered from a button on the master script and open in their own child windows? That way you only get one script running in total but could use that to open up the sub components in new windows.

Or for the headphone mixer. I'd be happy to have the identical script copied and the name enumerated upwards so I could have toggled toolbar buttons for each one.
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Old 03-10-2015, 03:59 AM   #20
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Here is a demo of the mouse modifier:


We can see several behavior:
  • If you want the later item to be ripple before it's initial time, right edge of the item under mouse must touch it before
  • If you select multiple items, only the right edges of the item under mouse move.
  • If item under mouse is the only item selected, that it become 1 sample long and that the next item come over it, you wont be able to push it again if you expand it back. (thats very hard to explain, maybe look at the GIF , it is my last action).
--
New mouse modifiers is always great.
I hope it will leads to other modifier, on item edge, such as presented in the Devs: Could we have this simple "move item contents" modifier addition for items? thread in the original post and in this one.


--

Thanks for you work on this!
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:08 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spk77 View Post
Here's an example where it would be useful (musicbynumbers already mentioned this)
spk77, just one thing: I don't see the "prompt for new instance" dialog box in your anim...
Are these really 2 instances of the same script (or 2 copies of the same script ?) Is the code available somewhere?

[oh, and btw... It isn't said in the changelog but the "load reascript button bug" should be fixed in this build too. Thanks for the feedback!]
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:22 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
spk77, just one thing: I don't see the "prompt for new instance" dialog box in your anim...
Are these really 2 instances of the same script (or 2 copies of the same script ?) Is the code available somewhere?

[oh, and btw... It isn't said in the changelog but the "load reascript button bug" should be fixed in this build too. Thanks for the feedback!]
Thanks for the fix!

Yes, it's the same script launched multiple times - here's a better licecap. This is REAPER V5.0Pre12. The code isn't available yet
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:28 AM   #23
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ok, thanks!
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:44 AM   #24
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Imho it only consolidates confusion. You set the project to absolute timebase, yet MIDI items don't respect it. How is that not utterly confusing?
I agree it is confusing.
Though I *think* the change listed in the changelog is 'only' to fix this inconsistency here

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...&postcount=252

not an approach to overhaul the current timebase behaviour for MIDI items.
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Old 03-10-2015, 04:56 AM   #25
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Yes, that's correct, the MIDI timebase fix in this build is really just a bugfix.

As is stated in the timebase help text, MIDI items will always use timebase=beats (position+length) regardless of the project or track timebase. The bug that was fixed is that MIDI items used to change position, but not length, when using timebase=time.

I understand that some users would like the ability to make time-based MIDI items, but the most common expected use case (by far) is something like, having some MIDI tracks in a time-based project and not expecting all of your MIDI to get mangled when you edit the project tempo.
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Old 03-10-2015, 05:18 AM   #26
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I understand that some users would like the ability to make time-based MIDI items, but the most common expected use case (by far) is something like, having some MIDI tracks in a time-based project and not expecting all of your MIDI to get mangled when you edit the project tempo.
Understood.

To be clear, I *never* want MIDI items to use an absolute timebase, but conceptual inconsistencies in REAPER such as this one are terribly annoying nevertheless. I would also guess that the most common (by far) expectation of users is that the ruler should not resize when changing tempo while the project is set to musical (i.e. beats) timebase - because it serves no useful purpose whatsoever (and I also don't know of any other sequencer application doing something similar), it just wastes CPU cycles to mangle the display when you edit the project tempo.

PS: there are no "MIDI tracks" in REAPER, but there's yet another argument for introducing them!
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Old 03-10-2015, 05:40 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I understand that some users would like the ability to make time-based MIDI items, but the most common expected use case (by far) is something like, having some MIDI tracks in a time-based project and not expecting all of your MIDI to get mangled when you edit the project tempo.
Some users? ok. Maybe most of users use fixed tempo. But for those who use tempo changes, it is a big limitation. I know it is difficult because midi is programmed to be relative to beats. That's how midi works. But there is the job of a good DAW, to be able to provide time based MIDI. Until then it is not a good daw, just a midi sequencer.

At least we have Breeder's tempo functions. Thank you. Life saver for REAPER users.
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Old 03-10-2015, 05:51 AM   #28
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But for those who use tempo changes, it is a big limitation. [...] Until then it is not a good daw, just a midi sequencer.
And for those of us who use *live* tempo changes, REAPER isn't even a halfway decent MIDI sequencer (see here).
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Old 03-10-2015, 06:08 AM   #29
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# Send automation: fixed recording automation when send envelope is set to fader scaling
SEND AUTOMATION? now I was just excited, you have added the most fundamental feature to your DAW? soooo i do a fast download and a mobile installe aaaand.... NO! Send mute, send vol and send pan are still not midi learnable... so no fx controlls over a few channels and no dubing with knobs -> looks like i still have to draw the music with the mouse.
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Old 03-10-2015, 06:09 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I understand that some users would like the ability to make time-based MIDI items, but the most common expected use case (by far) is something like, having some MIDI tracks in a time-based project and not expecting all of your MIDI to get mangled when you edit the project tempo.
And they can, by opening the MIDI source properties and setting it to constant-BPM -- after doing this, the MIDI item should behave just like an audio item.
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Old 03-10-2015, 06:16 AM   #31
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wondering what the bit of WALTER allows doing?
Changing things based on whether a custom colour has been applied, and what that custom colour is. For example, the colour of text that is sat on a custom coloured background.
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Old 03-10-2015, 06:22 AM   #32
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SEND AUTOMATION? now I was just excited, you have added the most fundamental feature to your DAW? soooo i do a fast download and a mobile installe aaaand.... NO! Send mute, send vol and send pan are still not midi learnable... so no fx controlls over a few channels and no dubing with knobs -> looks like i still have to draw the music with the mouse.
I agree completely that remote (MIDI/OSC) control can be *much* improved, but you seem to have jumped to conclusions there - as automation is not the same as remote control! REAPER can *automate* send volume/pan/mute just fine, afaik.
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Old 03-10-2015, 06:31 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I understand that some users would like the ability to make time-based MIDI items, but the most common expected use case (by far) is something like, having some MIDI tracks in a time-based project and not expecting all of your MIDI to get mangled when you edit the project tempo.
Which on the other hand completely disregards the 'tempo mapping a freetime MIDI song' use case.

But ok, there's the way Justin has mentioned for this.
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:00 AM   #34
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# Send automation: fixed recording automation when send envelope is set to fader scaling

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Originally Posted by Banned View Post
I agree completely that remote (MIDI/OSC) control can be *much* improved, but you seem to have jumped to conclusions there - as automation is not the same as remote control! REAPER can *automate* send volume/pan/mute just fine, afaik.
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shure it can automate this - and this is what iam painting. but it looks like that bothers noone but me. (see the FR link in my signature) but i think is not the big deal because the sendautomations folow the same trimread/ read/ touch/ latch/ write function .... so it must be just add the buttons for learn, mod and ui...
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:09 AM   #35
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And they can, by opening the MIDI source properties and setting it to constant-BPM -- after doing this, the MIDI item should behave just like an audio item.
Yes, and it would be wonderful if there was an action to set automatically the constant BPM to the BPM at the beginning of the item. This way we could easily change a large number of MIDI items into "time-based" MIDI items (except where the tempo is gradually changing).
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:13 AM   #36
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Yes, that's correct, the MIDI timebase fix in this build is really just a bugfix.

As is stated in the timebase help text, MIDI items will always use timebase=beats (position+length) regardless of the project or track timebase. The bug that was fixed is that MIDI items used to change position, but not length, when using timebase=time.

I understand that some users would like the ability to make time-based MIDI items, but the most common expected use case (by far) is something like, having some MIDI tracks in a time-based project and not expecting all of your MIDI to get mangled when you edit the project tempo.
yeah, if I don't have this - I am basically screwed in some ways. I have tried to do this before and it worked. When did it change? We need it back. We need time based midi items. does .mid do that?
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:17 AM   #37
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MIDI doesn't do that, it's beat.tick based. But a DAW should be able to convert between the two. So yes, I think we need a timebase mode that actually does what it says on the tin (if it's time, then it's time for all items!), and one that is "time" as it is now (time for audio but beats for MIDI).

Tempo mapping free-time MIDI (as nofish says) will be much easier this way.
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:19 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
MIDI doesn't do that, it's beat.tick based.
midi ITEMS don't have to stretch with the project, however. How else could you record a midi track not to tempo and then put tempo markers in? EDIT: saw your edit.

Didn't reaper USED to work this way? Not too happy with this change.
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:27 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
midi ITEMS don't have to stretch with the project, however. How else could you record a midi track not to tempo and then put tempo markers in? EDIT: saw your edit.

Didn't reaper USED to work this way? Not too happy with this change.
Justin did mention a way to work around that. And Breeder made some actions for tempo mapping for SWS...
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:57 AM   #40
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Yes, from what I understand this

http://wiki.cockos.com/wiki/index.ph...pping_with_SWS

still works the same and is not affected by the fix in this pre.
So no need to worry (I think).
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