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Old 10-17-2018, 10:20 PM   #1
Per Lichtman
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Default Kontakt 5 Problems with 64 Output Version - Fine In 8 and 16 Output!

I am running Reaper x64 with 64-bit plug-ins and having certain issues with the Kontakt 5 (64 output) plug-in that don't show up with the 8 and 16 output versions.

Symptom 1: When I right click on the plug-in from the list, the 64-output version is the only one that won't show the menu (with compatibility settings, etc.). Instead it becomes unresponsive for about ten seconds then does nothing.

Symptom 2: When I open the 64-output version GUI (or even switch between the GUI and slider displays using the "UI" button in Reaper) it takes about 10 seconds to display. Both the 8 output and 16 output version (EDIT: load practically instantaneously - I don't have time to start a timer).

As a quick control, when I load Kontakt 5 64-output in another DAW host, the GUI loads very quickly - perhaps in a second or two.

Any thoughts? I saw a lot of threads on the topic and remember reading more years ago, but I didn't see one addressing what to do if only the 64 output version had an issue, nor what to do if the compatibility settings menu would not even display.

I am about to try updating from Kontakt 5.7.1 to the new version and hope this helps.

Last edited by Per Lichtman; 10-17-2018 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:27 PM   #2
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Updating Kontakt 5 to 5.8.43 did not change things at all.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:39 PM   #3
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The difference between the 64-output vs. 8 and 16 output versions doesn't seem have anything to do with bridging. I removed all of their bridging configuration settings from reaper-vstbridge64.ini and it didn't make any difference.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:45 PM   #4
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I tried removing the Kontakt 5.dll entry from reaper-vstplugins64.ini and then restarting Reaper (as opposed to just re-scanning the plug-ins). This also did not fix the problem, though it took a fairly long time for Reaper to finish detecting the .DLL file for Kontakt 5 before finishing starting up.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:52 PM   #5
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I don't know that it would solve this issue, but have you tried launching the Kontakt application in standalone, w/o Reaper, checking all your audio settings in there and then saving/exit (twice even)? I know this is a popular solution to many random issues in Kontakt, so it's worth a try if you haven't already.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowlyOP View Post
I don't know that it would solve this issue, but have you tried launching the Kontakt application in standalone, w/o Reaper, checking all your audio settings in there and then saving/exit (twice even)? I know this is a popular solution to many random issues in Kontakt, so it's worth a try if you haven't already.
I'll give it a shot. Just a minute.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowlyOP View Post
I don't know that it would solve this issue, but have you tried launching the Kontakt application in standalone, w/o Reaper, checking all your audio settings in there and then saving/exit (twice even)? I know this is a popular solution to many random issues in Kontakt, so it's worth a try if you haven't already.
I tried it twice. No luck - exact same behavior as before.
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:28 AM   #8
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Have you tried running 4 instances of your 16 output version?
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:39 AM   #9
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Have you tried running 4 instances of your 16 output version?
Do you mean as a debugging step or as a workaround?

I can try the former if you think it will help. What should I be looking for?

But if you meant the latter, that's not a great option. I'd rather deal with the long load times.

I have some massively multi-miked libraries that have over sixteen channels of microphones contained in a single patch. Loading multiple Kontakt instances just to use the mics from a single patch would be a remedy worse than the sickness.
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Old 10-18-2018, 06:50 AM   #10
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In case this helps to debug things: When loading Kontakt 4 32-bit plug-ins, the 64-output version takes a while to add to a session, but from that point on the GUI loads and switches instantaneously. So it's not all 64-output versions of Kontakt that have the issue regarding slow GUI call-up.
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:45 AM   #11
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Sounds like it could be a registry corruption. Probably more trouble than it's worth to fix forensically, so drastic action called for...

I recommend keeping libraries on a different drive (or at least a different folder) from the sample player itself. If you don't, move them. Might take a bit of time, depending on how much stuff you've got. This step isn't necessary, but honestly is good practice for the future.
Then remove K5 via "Add or Remove Programs" and reinstall it via Native Access. It's not a huge download so it shouldn't take too long.
With any luck that will rewrite the reg keys and you can check REAPER can see it and open it up properly.
You can then use Native Access to Relocate your libraries (which is very fast) if necessary.

This process shouldn't take too long. But finally, run a batch resave to tighten things up - that can take quite a while, but it's worth it. This is effectively rewriting Kontakt's internal database for max efficiency and it can make a lot of difference for load times.
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:55 AM   #12
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Batch resave is not rewriting the internal database at all (it's resaving individual patches of a particular library - not the same thing!). And is completely unrelated to the issue OP is having, so there's no need to do that, or move the libraries, or anysuch thing.

Reinstall is the only thing that should be done, but definitely verify registry entries related to K5 are cleared.
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Old 10-18-2018, 09:58 AM   #13
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Thanks for the idea Jason!

Okay, digging into the reg. keys or doing an uninstall and reinstall may be an option. It’s just so odd that it doesn’t affect the other hosts running the same plug-in DLL. If it were a registry issue, wouldn’t other applications accessing the same DLL normally be affected? Does Reaper have any relevant plug-in specific configuration files aside from the two .ini files I mentioned earlier?

I already keep my terabytes of sample libraries on non-system drives and do batch re-saves for them individually so that shouldn’t be a factor.

Last edited by Per Lichtman; 10-18-2018 at 09:59 AM. Reason: Lack of clarity who it was addressed to.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:02 AM   #14
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Before reinstalling Kontakt, could you try a fresh Reaper portable install first?


Also, try disabling bitbridging in Reaper, then see what happens, too.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:03 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Batch resave is not rewriting the internal database at all (it's resaving individual patches of a particular library - not the same thing!). And is completely unrelated to the issue OP is having, so there's no need to do that, or move the libraries, or anysuch thing.

Reinstall is the only thing that should be done, but definitely verify registry entries related to K5 are cleared.
Are there any particular search strings I should use to check for Kontakt entries in the registry?
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:16 AM   #16
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Okay, well I defer to EvilDragon - he is the sampler guru round here. And yeah, my description of batch resaving was rather inaccurate.

I still think a wipe and reinstall would be simplest though. By the time you've poked around in the registry (never a task to be taken lightly), you could be up and running.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:23 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Per Lichtman View Post
Are there any particular search strings I should use to check for Kontakt entries in the registry?
If you just want to clear out all the Kontakt settings, go to HKCU\Software\Native Instruments\Kontakt 5. Back up that whole key then delete it, then see what happens.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:28 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Before reinstalling Kontakt, could you try a fresh Reaper portable install first?


Also, try disabling bitbridging in Reaper, then see what happens, too.
Thanks EvilDragon! Okay, I finished the portable install and once it finishes scanning through all the VSTs I’ll see how it goes.

Regarding disabling bit-bridging: I’ve been dealing with all the compatibility settings for plug-ins individually for such a long time that I haven’t looked for thaf option before. How do I disable bit-bridging entirely?
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:28 AM   #19
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Preferences->Plugins->Compatibility->VST bridging/firewalling, set to Native only.

If this fixes it, then just find 32-bit DLLs for Kontakt 5 and delete them, then return the option back to default.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:32 AM   #20
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Preferences->Plugins->Compatibility->VST bridging/firewalling, set to Native only.
Thanks. I’ll try that and the portable install check before using the registry path. Either way, I imaged the system drive as whole with ShadowProtect last night so the risk is pretty low, but I’ll backup the registey before any edits, too.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:39 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Lyon View Post
Okay, well I defer to EvilDragon - he is the sampler guru round here. And yeah, my description of batch resaving was rather inaccurate.

I still think a wipe and reinstall would be simplest though. By the time you've poked around in the registry (never a task to be taken lightly), you could be up and running.
Except that I still would need to check that the registry entries were properly removed during the uninstall, so I needed the search strings either way. If the Reaper specific checks don’t work, uninstalling K5 as per your suggestion (followed by a quick registry check) is still the first order of business.
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:44 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Before reinstalling Kontakt, could you try a fresh Reaper portable install first?


Also, try disabling bitbridging in Reaper, then see what happens, too.
Okay in the portable install Kontak 5 64-output is fast again. How do I replicate that in my main Reaper install?
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:48 AM   #23
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Now try saving configuration of your main Reaper installation (General->Export configuration), then import it to portable install. See if the slowness returns.

Perhaps it's just a matter of clearing the plugin cache and rescanning, who knows...
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Old 10-18-2018, 10:50 AM   #24
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Now try saving configuration of your main Reaper installation (General->Export configuration), then import it to portable install. See if the slowness returns.

Perhaps it's just a matter of clearing the plugin cache and rescanning, who knows...
Shortly after I sent that message, I updated my main install from 5.93 to 5.96. Apparently in the process something got fixed because now the main install is just as quick to open Kontakt 5 64-out as the portable one.

Thanks for all the help!
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Old 10-18-2018, 11:12 AM   #25
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Yay, great!
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