Old 04-08-2013, 12:18 PM   #1
Amnesian48
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Default Reverb plugin causing feedback

I posted this in another forum, thinking this problem was due to compatibility issues with Reaper, but I don't think so anymore, so here goes.

I have the Lexicon PCM reverb plugin loaded up in Reaper and it sounds great. The problem is..
When i try to render my project, the track affected by the Lexicon plugin goes into a feedback cycle and leaves me with an export, containing LOUD feedback. Furthermore, when I press play in Reaper after a render like this, the feedback problem persists until I press "Store Preset" inside the plugin. Then it works great again.
But if then try to render again, then problem comes back.
It also happens if I change to another audio device.

However, if i render the tracks, affected by the Lexicon plugin, by themselves and then render my project, it works fine!

What is happening, and what can I do to fix it? It only happens in Reaper!
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:15 AM   #2
Nip
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You could try not using the fastest rendering speed.

Try 1x offline or even online rendering.

Just a guess...
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Old 10-13-2013, 09:34 AM   #3
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Default o boy

I'm experiencing the exact same problem, with the exact same plugin.
it's almost like there is some sort of loop in de plugin bridge....

the weird thing is that when I render with a compressor on the Master Bus it doesn't happen. but when I want to sen my tracks to mastering I don't want any compressors on the Master Bus.

anyone figured out what to do?
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Old 11-22-2013, 01:57 PM   #4
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Same plugin same issue. I noticed the feedback occurs when I render to a different bitrate than the source material. For instance my audio file that I'm applying reverb to is 96k but I'm rendering my multitracks down to 44k. Guaranteed feedback. To fix this problem I have a workaround but it is cumbersome and slow. First I render my mix at the same bitrate as the source audio (96k in my case) and then I take the two track output and render that again at the lower bitrate (44k to make cds)
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Old 11-22-2013, 04:38 PM   #5
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So that I'm clear on this, do you have the Lexicon PCM on an insert of the master bus? If so, that is a problem itself...in mixing (especially for a "master mix" situation) you shouldn't ever have any reverb on a master output as an insert. On an individual track for a specific effect is fine, but reverb should only be used as a send/return track being fed to the master output for a general "space" effect on the total mix. If you are using it as a send/return try "freezing" or stemming that effect send track before exporting the total mix. And also, the Lexicon PCM reverbs run at very specific sample rates. Trying to output at a rate other than the internal setting of the plug-in will always cause noise/feedback issues.

If you are not using it as an insert, it could be that you are using a shall we say "less than legally purchased" version? (Don't say here if you are...lol). There has been an update to those plug-ins to address just such issues.

Don't know if any of this helps, but just coming from experience...

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Old 11-22-2013, 06:20 PM   #6
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^ I usually insert the verb directly on vocals but never use it on the master. Thanks for your advice though. It is helpful and I will look into it.

Lately I have preferred to use Valhalla Room because it is easier/quicker to dial in and it works flawlessly.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:28 PM   #7
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Ok, cool...good to know. I have heard many potentially good mixes be ruined because of master fx insert misuse, especially with reverbs and delays. I am glad at least you are not one of those to make that awfully ridiculous mistake! (~:
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:35 PM   #8
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Well, reverb on the master is one way to "glue" a mix I guess. Izotope Ozone, which is a commonly used ITB mastering plugin even has a reverb section. When I used to use that plugin (long ago, lol) I would often enable the reverb at 5% on room algorithm for some depth/glue. And that was an insert. But I don't do that anymore. Now I just put a tape sat plugin, inflator, and limiter on the master bus, and try not to push things too hard.
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Old 11-22-2013, 06:59 PM   #9
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Ozone...grrr, lol. I have my views of that whole "mastering suite" as they claim it. Coming from a mastering standpoint, it injects more unnecessary problems than it helps and has some of the worst dithering quality of any of the so-called "mastering software" solutions. Not to forget that the multi-band compression/limiting has real issues not squashing all of the breath and life right out of a mix...no matter how light the settings. But again, just my opinion.

For "gluing" a mix, a couple dB of soft compression/transient control will do a far better job, and doesn't risk all the negative artifacts that can happen at such a critical stage.

And btw, I see you are in Raleigh, NC...I was born and raised until my teen years in Hickory, not too far from there. (~:
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Old 06-29-2017, 04:37 PM   #10
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I just had a similar problem. When rendering, a terrible feedback was produced. I had a bunch of tracks utilizing Lexicon reverbs. To resolve the problem, I simply routed them to an FX bus.
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Old 06-29-2017, 09:49 PM   #11
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Seemingly that plugin is not working decently as an insert effect but no problems as a send effect ?!?!?

Really funny !!

Does this only happen with multiple of instances the plugin (so there might be some inappropriate (or even deliberate) inter-instance crosstalk ) ?

Does this only happen when rendering off-line, not with realtime playback ?

A plugin should not work noticeably different with off-line remndering.

I seem to remember that Reaper has a setting whether not to inform the plugins about the rendering-mode.

-Michael

Last edited by mschnell; 06-30-2017 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 07-15-2017, 08:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Seemingly that plugin is not working decently as an insert effect but no problems as a send effect ?!?!?

Really funny !!

Does this only happen with multiple of instances the plugin (so there might be some inappropriate (or even deliberate) inter-instance crosstalk ) ?

Does this only happen when rendering off-line, not with realtime playback ?

A plugin should not work noticeably different with off-line remndering.

I seem to remember that Reaper has a setting whether not to inform the plugins about the rendering-mode.

-Michael
I think I spoke too soon. The problem went away, but not because of the bus I created. The problem came back the next day. I did some more trouble shooting and ended up moving the file locations. This did not resolve the problem, so I moved the files back to their original location. Go figure, the next time I boot up a project and try to render the file, the problem is gone once again. So I figured maybe something happened when I relocated the files back to their original location. Alas, the problem is back. One thing is for sure: Its the lexicon hall and lexicon random hall plugins that are the culprit. I never had this issue until recently, so I don't see how updating the plug-in would be of any help.
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Old 07-15-2017, 08:12 PM   #13
StringMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Seemingly that plugin is not working decently as an insert effect but no problems as a send effect ?!?!?

Really funny !!

Does this only happen with multiple of instances the plugin (so there might be some inappropriate (or even deliberate) inter-instance crosstalk ) ?

Does this only happen when rendering off-line, not with realtime playback ?

A plugin should not work noticeably different with off-line remndering.

I seem to remember that Reaper has a setting whether not to inform the plugins about the rendering-mode.

-Michael
This problem occurs with only one instance of the plugin open.

The problem occurs with both online and offline rendering.

Hmmm...if you can find this setting, please let me know.

Thanks!
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:50 AM   #14
mschnell
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Preference -> plugins -> Vst-> "Inform Plugins of offline rendering state"

-Michael
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Old 07-17-2017, 07:52 PM   #15
StringMan
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Thanks! I will try next time the problem arises. It has mysteriously went away again.
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Old 10-11-2017, 09:44 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Preference -> plugins -> Vst-> "Inform Plugins of offline rendering state"

-Michael
Welp, the problem has arisen again, and hasn't gone away for the past week. I tried your suggestion to no avail. I really wish I could figure this out.
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Old 10-11-2017, 10:56 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StringMan View Post
Welp, the problem has arisen again, and hasn't gone away for the past week. I tried your suggestion to no avail. I really wish I could figure this out.
Is this the rack mount Lexicons (MX-200 or MX-400) that appear as a plugin in the DAW?
If so, you'll need to render real-time only. That might be related to your problem...
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
Is this the rack mount Lexicons (MX-200 or MX-400) that appear as a plugin in the DAW?
If so, you'll need to render real-time only. That might be related to your problem...

Yes, you are correct! Thanks!
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:33 AM   #19
StringMan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philbo King View Post
Is this the rack mount Lexicons (MX-200 or MX-400) that appear as a plugin in the DAW?
If so, you'll need to render real-time only. That might be related to your problem...
Why is that, though?
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:49 AM   #20
mschnell
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Very obviously only pure software plugins can be rendered at a different that natural speed

IMHO hardware gear should be avoided due to lots of trouble imposed.

-Michael
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Old 08-11-2018, 09:27 AM   #21
Noiz
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Default Feedback using Lexhall

I have been having the same problem (feedback when using the Lexicon Lexhall plugin).
I seem to have been able to solve it (for now) by going to the File > Project Settings and making sure the "project sample rate" was set to the SR of the audiofile to which the plugin is applied AND making sure that in Options > Preferences the the "Request sample rate" is either unchecked or set to the same SR as project sample rate.
It might help to close your project and the reaper, then make these settings for a new project, and open the project again. Worked for me (for now)...
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