Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > Recording Technologies and Techniques

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-28-2021, 07:00 AM   #161
beingmf
Human being with feelings
 
beingmf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Jazz City
Posts: 5,065
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tspring View Post
Some of the preamps we have provide variable impedence inputs down to 200 ohms or so. Perhaps this is a factor as you suggest.
I now found this "review" of the "SM 57 gizmo", which changes the impedance of the preamp accordingly*, and it seems to affirm what I heard.

* EDIT: just a resistor soldered across the XLR pins in an adaptor piece

Quote:
I do wish some folks would chime in on suggestions for some *low price* dynamic mics other than SM58/57 that they have found to be useful for recording vocals, and that could be roughly described as smooth and warm sounding. I have had a fair number of inexpensive dynamic mics that have been very useful, but they have either sounded just like an SM58 to me or were less smooth and warm. I'm not in the market for one at the moment, I'm just curious.
i think the most famous good sounding low-budget dynamic mic must be the Prodipe TT-1. I haven't heard one for quite a long time now, but I remember it being really nice, and definitely more expensive sounding than its 39€ price tag.
__________________
Windows 10x64 | AMD Ryzen 3700X | ATI FirePro 2100 | Marian Seraph AD2, 4.3.8 | Yamaha Steinberg MR816x
"If I can hear well, then everything I do is right" (Allen Sides)
beingmf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 07:51 AM   #162
tspring
Human being with feelings
 
tspring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eastern shore of Maryland, USA
Posts: 1,484
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beingmf View Post
I think the most famous good sounding low-budget dynamic mic must be the Prodipe TT-1. I haven't heard one for quite a long time now, but I remember it being really nice, and definitely more expensive sounding than its 39€ price tag.
I have never had one of these... Rats, now I want one just so I can hear it. This is a hazard that I did not anticipate when I made my last posting.

T
tspring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 08:03 AM   #163
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tspring View Post
I do wish some folks would chime in on suggestions for some *low price* dynamic mics other than SM58/57 that they have found to be useful for recording vocals, and that could be roughly described as smooth and warm sounding.
Define "low price"
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 08:12 AM   #164
tspring
Human being with feelings
 
tspring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eastern shore of Maryland, USA
Posts: 1,484
Default

Since the thread started out discussing SM58s, which usually run around $100, let's assume that for our purposes inexpensive is $200 or less.

T
tspring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 08:53 AM   #165
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
Default

That would get you a new Omni Dynamic like the EV 635A (you can work really close, since there's no proximity, so background noise isn't necessarily the issue you might expect)

Or (if you shop around) the Beyer M88TG (Hypercardioid) - good stage mic, also.

s/h I bought a Beyer M818 set (that's a pair of cardioid dynamics) for way less than that (even allowing for inflation). Great little mics. Terrible handling noise (not intended for it). You see them around quite often, but the prices seem be on the way up.

In the sub-£200 price range there's loads of "better" dynamics than the SM58, not so at the same price or less. Economies of scale isn't it?
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...

Last edited by jrk; 02-28-2021 at 09:14 AM.
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 10:23 AM   #166
tspring
Human being with feelings
 
tspring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eastern shore of Maryland, USA
Posts: 1,484
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk View Post
That would get you a new Omni Dynamic like the EV 635A (you can work really close, since there's no proximity, so background noise isn't necessarily the issue you might expect).

Or (if you shop around) the Beyer M88TG (Hypercardioid) - good stage mic, also.



s/h I bought a Beyer M818 set (that's a pair of cardioid dynamics) for way less than that (even allowing for inflation). Great little mics. Terrible handling noise (not intended for it). You see them around quite often, but the prices seem be on the way up.


In the sub-£200 price range there's loads of "better" dynamics than the SM58, not so at the same price or less. Economies of scale isn't it?

EV 635A - We have one of these. It has found some use on guitar speaker cabinets but not so much for voice. Probably just a personal taste thing.

M88-TG: One would probably have to shop around quite a bit in the used market to buy one for $200. They are running $350-400 new.

Beyer M818: These mics haven't been made in quite a few years. On the used market, it appears they are mainly selling in stero pairs for $300 or more for the pair. One would indeed expect to find single mics every once in a while for less than $200.

Thanks for these interesting suggestions.

T
tspring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 11:12 AM   #167
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

FWIW my own personal preference with BeyerDynamic MG88s are the earlier- ones before they became "TG".
I have one of the transitonal earlier models MG88 N (C) which happily has a canon/XLR connector insted of the Tuchel but is still the older (and in my opinion better) build. YMMV of course.
The Sennheiser versions of Shure SMs are similar in that respect. I have a couple of the 840s and another one from the same series with slightly different response curve, but they all sound a lot more smooth and controlled than the SMs. And are MUCH more resistant to feedback and handling noise.
Same holds good for a lot of the AKG dynamics, although I have no idea what they sell for these days.
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 11:22 AM   #168
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tspring View Post
EV 635A - We have one of these. It has found some use on guitar speaker cabinets but not so much for voice.
Worth trying. It's got a slight touch of presence. But nothing like the SM5x
It was, of course, designed for voice - as an interview / newscaster mic.

Quote:
M88-TG: One would probably have to shop around quite a bit in the used market to buy one for $200. They are running $350-400 new.
Ah, right, sorry I confused dollars for gbp. The cheapest new I can see at the moment is £230, i.e. $332 - that's way over budget. But a very good buy. And they're not coming up much s/h. Because they're really good. Sorry.

Quote:
Beyer M818: These mics haven't been made in quite a few years. [...] One would indeed expect to find single mics every once in a while for less than $200.
Yes, I fear you've missed the bargain boat on these. The last single I could find went for $160. And it wasn't as pretty as mine. I find it to be pretty flat right up to ~16k. Rather neutral / warm. It was sold in a stereo pair (M818 = 2 x M81 - not to be confused with the other M81) to (I guess) keen amateur recordists.

[Edit]One problem is that the 58 has become a standard. Even if, frankly, it sounds a bit odd. I suspect other manufacturers of hand-held vocal mics know that this is the kind of sound their customers are expecting. I've got a Beyer TG V50 here that sounds like a super 58 on vocals (and I don't mean that in a good way) - but makes a very crispy snare (or tom) mic (what I bought it for).
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...

Last edited by jrk; 02-28-2021 at 01:01 PM.
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 11:49 AM   #169
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Same holds good for a lot of the AKG dynamics, although I have no idea what they sell for these days.
I was thinking of buying a D7 (~ $150?) a while back. That's got a warm bottom.
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 01:08 PM   #170
cyrano
Human being with feelings
 
cyrano's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 5,246
Default

There are numerous dynamics out there that are completely unknown. Sometimes, you come across those for peanuts.

I've recently bought a Peavey PG58 for 10 €. The case it came in is probably worth more. The case has a lock on it Guess what Peavey was trying to copy?

I also picked up a few Sennheisers from the 80's Blackfire series for next to nothing. MD518 and a few others. One had never been used. It came with a faulty XLR cable. The previous/first owner had it in a box in his drawer for nearly 40 years...

All these are viable vocal mics. But you need to test them with your voice.

Don't like 'em? Sell and buy something else. Or give it to a friend who might like it.

One can never have enough mics.
__________________
In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
George Orwell
cyrano is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 01:33 PM   #171
Peterk312
Human being with feelings
 
Peterk312's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 477
Default

Somebody created a Youtube video titled. "The SM58 Sucks! - A Discussion of Modern Live Sound." I won't post the link to it here.

I just like one of the comments posted:

Quote:
If you can't make an SM58 sound good, you're the problem.
That about sums it up. There's no reason to believe you can't make it sound good.
Peterk312 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 02:30 PM   #172
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
Default

Quote:
If you can't make an SM58 sound good, you're the problem.
I don't see your point. To a certain extent, you can make any microphone sound like anything. I'd love make the one microphone to rule them all a Lomo dynamic. That would be keen.
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 02:57 PM   #173
tspring
Human being with feelings
 
tspring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eastern shore of Maryland, USA
Posts: 1,484
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyrano View Post
There are numerous dynamics out there that are completely unknown. Sometimes, you come across those for peanuts.

I've recently bought a Peavey PG58 for 10 €. The case it came in is probably worth more. The case has a lock on it Guess what Peavey was trying to copy?

I also picked up a few Sennheisers from the 80's Blackfire series for next to nothing. MD518 and a few others. One had never been used. It came with a faulty XLR cable. The previous/first owner had it in a box in his drawer for nearly 40 years...

All these are viable vocal mics. But you need to test them with your voice.

Don't like 'em? Sell and buy something else. Or give it to a friend who might like it.

One can never have enough mics.
Yeah, I think that the overall approach that you suggest is probably best, but suggestions from people who have identified hidden jewels through using the mics are still helpful as the variety of inexpensive mics that you might see is vast.

Digging around to find good used inexpensive gear is fun to me, and you gain perspective on what really pleases you by trying the gear out.

Letting your acquaintances know that you are interested in trying to fix broken donated gear is a great way to get hold of mics that you might not ordinarily be able to afford. I have had numerous pieces of equipment given to me that were supposedly non-functional, including mics, and the fix has often been trivial. It doesn't always work out, but there is nothing to lose but a little time. I have been absolutely astounded at the amount of equipment has been contributed to my son's studio by local musicians and the community in general. People just don't want to see things that they know were valuable at one time thrown away, and they know that he enjoys fixing them and giving them new life.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Last edited by tspring; 02-28-2021 at 03:14 PM.
tspring is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 05:52 PM   #174
Peterk312
Human being with feelings
 
Peterk312's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 477
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk View Post
I don't see your point. To a certain extent, you can make any microphone sound like anything...
You would need to watch the video and see how he's trying to argue that the SM58 is a terrible microphone. It's another video that suggests as soon as you use an SM58 for a vocal it automatically sucks. There's just too much information in this thread that contradicts his argument.
Peterk312 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2021, 08:51 PM   #175
numberthirty
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 674
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterk312 View Post
You would need to watch the video and see how he's trying to argue that the SM58 is a terrible microphone. It's another video that suggests as soon as you use an SM58 for a vocal it automatically sucks. There's just too much information in this thread that contradicts his argument.
I watched it.

Saying that he said "The SM58 Is A Terrible Microphone..." is a bit of an overstatement.

It certainly never said that it "Automatically..." sucks.
numberthirty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 12:22 AM   #176
Stu
Human being with feelings
 
Stu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sheffield, UK
Posts: 1,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk View Post
I don't see your point. To a certain extent, you can make any microphone sound like anything. I'd love make the one microphone to rule them all a Lomo dynamic. That would be keen.
He’s not talking about one microphone being all you need, or one that rules all. What he means is - there’s nothing about a 58 that makes it unsuitable for vocal recording in a studio environment. People may have preferences, and objectively there are mics with better technical specifications and if you collected enough evidence you could even probably be safe saying that the majority of people find better results with other microphones for this purpose.

However. If someone has only a 58, and they are stating that they are simply not able to get a useable vocal recording with it, it points to there being more serious problems that should be considered and resolved before buying a new mic. It isn’t possible to point to any microphone at any price and say ‘this is better than an SM58’ because it’s too context dependant. For what purpose? To record what? Where are you recording? What kind of sound are you aiming for? There is no magic bullet.

I still think Peter should look to add a ribbon and perhaps replace his LDC at some point in the future. Not because I can point to one that will definitively better than the results he’s getting with his 58 but because I think it’s ‘likely’ that he may find a better choice for his personal requirements.

Peter, just a thought - I don’t know where you are or what lockdown conditions you may be under, but when I had my studio I had a few clients who came in for a day just to try out microphones - I was happy to oblige and it really helped them see and hear what the differences were and make an informed choice when buying. If you have a studio local to you (or even just a local enthusiast) then I would definitely recommend speaking with them to see if it’s an option.

Edit: Slightly off topic but just thinking after I posted this. The SM57/58 are the Volkswagen Golf of the microphone world, they fit a car analogy perfectly.

The Golf isn’t the most attractive car, isn’t the most economical, isn’t the cheapest to buy, insure or tax, isn’t the fastest or best to drive, doesn’t have the most spacious interior and doesn’t have the biggest luggage capacity. Absolutely nothing about the Golf is ‘the best’.

And yet, it is impossible to point to any one car and definitively and objectively say ‘this car is better than a VW Golf’ because too much depends on what a person wants and needs from a car. Even if you could find something that bettered every functional aspect of the car, you still have to consider the price and the fact that someone might just consider the Golf to be more aesthetically pleasing. ��

Last edited by Stu; 03-01-2021 at 12:36 AM.
Stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 01:38 AM   #177
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu View Post
Absolutely nothing about the Golf is ‘the best’.

And yet, it is impossible to point to any one car and definitively and objectively say ‘this car is better than a VW Golf’ because too much depends on what a person wants and needs from a car. Even if you could find something that bettered every functional aspect of the car, you still have to consider the price and the fact that someone might just consider the Golf to be more aesthetically pleasing. ��
Nonetheless, I have tried doing vocals with my wife`s VW Golf and it REALLY sucks.












Sorry - I just couldn`t resist.....
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 01:45 AM   #178
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu View Post
If someone has only a 58, and they are stating that they are simply not able to get a useable vocal recording with it
I missed the bit where someone said that.
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 02:28 AM   #179
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Nonetheless, I have tried doing vocals with my wife`s VW Golf and it REALLY sucks.
Quote:
If you can't make the wife's VW Golf sound good, you're the problem.
Nothing wrong with the car!
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 05:34 AM   #180
Stu
Human being with feelings
 
Stu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sheffield, UK
Posts: 1,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Nonetheless, I have tried doing vocals with my wife`s VW Golf and it REALLY sucks.



Sorry - I just couldn`t resist.....
I should have seen this coming!
Stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 05:38 AM   #181
Stu
Human being with feelings
 
Stu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sheffield, UK
Posts: 1,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk View Post
I missed the bit where someone said that.
Nobody did say that, specifically, but it has been heavily implied in this thread and some of the links that Peter shared. It’s a common thing to see on Gearputz too - people claiming that the SM57/8 is somehow absolutely terrible, useless for anything except live vocals. I mean, it’s not my favourite vocal mic for sure, but terrible? Unusable? It’s hyperbole and objectively incorrect.
Stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 06:29 AM   #182
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
Default

Yeah! Take that, straw man! Get in!
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 07:16 AM   #183
Stu
Human being with feelings
 
Stu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sheffield, UK
Posts: 1,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk View Post
Yeah! Take that, straw man! Get in!
My post is straw man? Or some other? You’ve lost me
Stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 07:35 AM   #184
Peterk312
Human being with feelings
 
Peterk312's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 477
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
I watched it [Youtube video "The SM58 Sucks! - A Discussion of Modern Live Sound].

Saying that he said "The SM58 Is A Terrible Microphone..." is a bit of an overstatement.

It certainly never said that it "Automatically..." sucks.

No?


Well, it's not particularly relevant for our discussion about using an SM58 to record vocals because he's referring to a live sound application. His argument is basically that an SM58 is old and outdated technology.

Quote:
It's not a very good microphone in the context that it's most often used in this modern era [live vocals?]...designed many many many years ago...hasn't really changed since the 70s if not the 60s...At the time they were great... That was then this is now...they were pushng the limits of the technology of the time...what can we make that will provide the most clear gain before feedback...
Why is the SM58 a bad mic: For live sound, it can sound "relatively muddy and you don't get a huge amount of gain before feedback... It can be more difficult to work with compared to some more modern designs."

He then explains in a long winded way how since the SM58 was designed, improvements in power amps and speakers have occurred.

Then he talks about how with a flat EQ the mic is too muddy, but then if you apply EQ the thing gets nothing but feedback.

He then quickly, and uncritically, recommends at least 10 other "modern" mics mostly for the purpose of micing things like snares and guitar cabinets. He eventually concludes:

Quote:
"these things and so many other brands are so much better and it's funny that Shure has made better microphones that aren't in an astronomical price range...but guys, if you do live sound don't plan on getting an SM58 unless you plan on using it as a baseball bat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIvjZ6_bxhE

It automatically sucks, according to him.
Peterk312 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 07:41 AM   #185
karbomusic
Human being with feelings
 
karbomusic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,260
Default

Not sure what the latest here is, but there really should be no question that the 57/58 have been unnecessarily trashed in most every type of use for decades. They were being trashed long before DAWs were around so not really sure why/if that would be so semantically nitpicked outside possible sheer boredom.
__________________
Music is what feelings sound like.
karbomusic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 08:07 AM   #186
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

I do find it funny that some of the critics claim it is because SMs are so outdated/obsolete/ etc.

Wonder how they feel about all the MUCH older designs that people are paying a fortune for because of thier "classic" sound....

So much mumbo jumbo spouted by fake experts....

P.S. I just put some labels on a package. I bought a 5000 label box of them in the USA in 1985 from Office Essentials. I also got a bulk supply of tractor-feed paper at the same time.
Still have the remains of both and 35 years later they are working great.

...apart from I do have to tear off the bits with tractor feed holes in to get the paper to work in my printer....
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais

Last edited by ivansc; 03-02-2021 at 03:38 AM.
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 08:21 AM   #187
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu View Post
My post is straw man? Or some other? You’ve lost me
Nobody here is saying they're shit. You've refuted an argument that no-one is making. And besides, that's not even what the thread's about. There's "better", there are worse. Many LDCs are more useful, some perhaps aren't.

The 58 is a workhorse live mic. It's priced attractively thanks to scale economies.
I'd be surprised if there were many folks on here who haven't got one (or several).

If it's all you've got, use it. If you can afford something better / different, flash that cash.

That's it. The rest is noise.
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 08:38 AM   #188
Stu
Human being with feelings
 
Stu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Sheffield, UK
Posts: 1,007
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrk View Post
Nobody here is saying they're shit. You've refuted an argument that no-one is making. And besides, that's not even what the thread's about. There's "better", there are worse. Many LDCs are more useful, some perhaps aren't.

The 58 is a workhorse live mic. It's priced attractively thanks to scale economies.
I'd be surprised if there were many folks on here who haven't got one (or several).

If it's all you've got, use it. If you can afford something better / different, flash that cash.

That's it. The rest is noise.
Post #85 in this thread: “ Sure you can record vocals with an SM58. Just like you can pound a nail into a 2 x 4 with a ball peen hammer. Or you can use a plumber’s pipe wrench to remove your lug nuts.

It’s possible, just a terrible choice, possibly the worst one there is.”

I made the original comment “if someone can’t get a decent vocal recording with an SM58 then there are probably bigger problems that need addressing before considering buying a new mic” much earlier in the thread, in response to the above.

Peter repeated it, paraphrased. You questioned what he meant and I replied to you to try to explain. So no, not straw man.

Sorry my ‘noise’ upset you, maybe better to just ignore it next time though.
Stu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 09:27 AM   #189
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stu View Post
Sorry my ‘noise’ upset you, maybe better to just ignore it next time though.
Noted.
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 11:41 AM   #190
morgon
Human being with feelings
 
morgon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: 'straya
Posts: 9,409
Default

So, is anyone gonna say which Lennon, Bono, Ramones, Peter Gabriel, Rod Stewart tracks they've heard whereby you felt it was a pity such track is *underproduced* bc of an SM58?
morgon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 02:30 PM   #191
BCF1
Human being with feelings
 
BCF1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: California
Posts: 835
Default

Lengthy thread...
Probably already been said numerous times but.....
Sm58's are great and can be used with great success in many ways. Used to use sm58 often for vocals but since acquiring a sm7b that's become what works best for me most the time.
Just my $0.02
Which after taxes ....
you get the idea
BCF1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 06:13 PM   #192
numberthirty
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Posts: 674
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterk312 View Post
...

It automatically sucks, according to him.
Politely, that's not anything like what the guy actually said.

He pointed out that the design is a rather old design that presents some issues in a present day live sound situation.

Which is absolutely the case.

He also pointed out that there is an "A Directly To 'B' Path..." when it comes to using cabinet emulators instead of sticking a microphone on a guitar amp/cabinet.

Which is absolutely the case.

Doesn't mean that he is saying that it is impossible to put a microphone on a guitar speaker in a live context. He simply pointed out that there is a less fraught path in the here and now.

The same as using an SM58 in a live sound context in the here and now.

Does not "Absolutely Suck...", but it does present a particular set of issues.
numberthirty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-01-2021, 10:30 PM   #193
g4greg
Human being with feelings
 
g4greg's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Japan
Posts: 1,162
Default

I really feel like I'm repeating myself. The 57/58 almost never sounds "bad" (if well placed).

It was my first mic, and I still have it, a bazillion years later. And it still sounds the same. It's one of the buys I will never regret.

I really like the Golf comparison, It always gets the job done, never poorly, but never in a stellar way either.

Is it my first choice in the studio?

No. Because I have enough mics that have specific applications. They sound a lot better for certain things, and a lot worse for others..

However, I do go back to it if nothing else works... Or if it's in a risky position. (Nope, I ain't putting a condenser next to that metal drummer's snare. I'm putting a 57. Fuck the sound, my condensers are not worth the risk. And a metal growler who wants to hold the mic while.. er "singing?" here you go, a niiice little, bulletproof '58. feel free to do whatever you want to it.)

I also use it a a secondary source when recording acoustic instruments lke guitars and cellos. Yes there's another mic doing most of the lifting, but I do like to have a 57 in there for blending. Usually pointed towards the bridge.



Vocals. Like I said earlier, mics are like underwear. you gotta try them to see if they fit you.

The 57 is like that huuuge, comfy underwear you wear when you don't think you'll have to show it to anyone. it's made to fit everyone, but it doesn't fit everyone like a glove.
__________________
Vocals for hire from From pop to metal, and everything in between .
https://www.fiverr.com/gregemond/be-...ger-songwriter
g4greg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2021, 02:32 AM   #194
Allybye
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 680
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by g4greg View Post
I really feel like I'm repeating myself.
I feel amost everyone is repeating themselves, virtually entrenched positions and the thread is going nowhere.........

Time to call it a day.
Allybye is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2021, 03:40 AM   #195
ivansc
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
Default

Groundhog day again.....
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
ivansc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2021, 06:24 AM   #196
maxdembo
Human being with feelings
 
maxdembo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: All Hallows End
Posts: 2,132
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Groundhog day again.....
Groundhog day again.....
maxdembo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2021, 07:38 AM   #197
Peterk312
Human being with feelings
 
Peterk312's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 477
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by numberthirty View Post
Politely, that's not anything like what the guy actually said.

He pointed out that the design is a rather old design that presents some issues in a present day live sound situation.

Which is absolutely the case.

He also pointed out that there is an "A Directly To 'B' Path..." when it comes to using cabinet emulators instead of sticking a microphone on a guitar amp/cabinet.

Which is absolutely the case.

Doesn't mean that he is saying that it is impossible to put a microphone on a guitar speaker in a live context. He simply pointed out that there is a less fraught path in the here and now.

The same as using an SM58 in a live sound context in the here and now.

Does not "Absolutely Suck...", but it does present a particular set of issues.

Video quote:

Quote:
...so many other brands are so much better and it's funny that Shure has made better microphones that aren't in an astronomical price range...but guys, if you do live sound don't plan on getting an SM58 unless you plan on using it as a baseball bat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIvjZ6_bxhE
Peterk312 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2021, 07:43 AM   #198
Peterk312
Human being with feelings
 
Peterk312's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 477
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Allybye View Post
I feel amost everyone is repeating themselves, virtually entrenched positions and the thread is going nowhere.........

Time to call it a day.

Actually, I think with all the info out there trying to say that if you record (and apparently use live) with an SM58, particularly for vocals, it will instantly suck, there's a need to keep repeating that it isn't necessarily the case.

And the reality of my circumstance is that no matter what I do, no matter what it sounds like, as soon as some people find out I used an SM58 to record the vocals on a project that will be released they will say the vocals suck and the recording would have been so much "better" had I used an LDC for the vocal. I have to accept that.

We believe what we hear, but we also hear what we believe.
Peterk312 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2021, 09:46 AM   #199
jrk
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 2,969
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterk312 View Post
as soon as some people find out I used an SM58 to record the vocals on a project that will be released they will say the vocals suck and the recording would have been so much "better" had I used an LDC for the vocal. I have to accept that.

We believe what we hear, but we also hear what we believe.
Yeah, but in fairness, if you're eq-ing your vocals like this:


https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php?p=2406546

folks are going to hear something.
Attached Images
File Type: png thateq.png (14.2 KB, 324 views)
__________________
it's meant to sound like that...
jrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-02-2021, 11:08 AM   #200
JamesPeters
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Near a big lake
Posts: 3,943
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peterk312 View Post
...as soon as some people find out I used an SM58 to record the vocals on a project that will be released they will say the vocals suck and the recording would have been so much "better" had I used an LDC for the vocal. I have to accept that.
Or you can try a different tactic: tell them you used a Neumann. After they gush over how great it sounds, tell them it's actually an SM58 and that they need to get over their mentality.

It may not accomplish much, but it'll at least provide you some entertainment.
JamesPeters is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.