Midi VSTi and Compression

[Robkress]

Hello All,

There is something I don't understand about midi virtual instruments and compressors.

I have inserted a midi virtual piano into a track (pianoteq) and built a part. Then per usual, I have moved on to a mixing phase and tried to add compression to this piano part (fabfilter pro c2).

However, the compressor doesn't work correctly at all. It hard compresses as long as the midi note is held and then releases.

I worked around this by freezing the track (which basically converts the midi data into analog audio) and then compressed. This works well but does "gate" the real time editability of the part in midi. It also forced me to add the compressor (on the track) after freezing. Then unfreezing and refreezing doesn't work as I expected.

Surely there is something here that I don't understand. Is this the recommended approach? Are there other plugins that will require the same treatment as this? Is there some other native way to do this that I just don't know about?

A little bit of background understanding will go a long way here for me and send me on my way.

Thanks in advance for any shared knowledge.

Cheers,

Rob

[King Stupid]

Originally Posted by Robkress

Hello All,

There is something I don't understand about midi virtual instruments and compressors.

I have inserted a midi virtual piano into a track (pianoteq) and built a part. Then per usual, I have moved on to a mixing phase and tried to add compression to this piano part (fabfilter pro c2).

However, the compressor doesn't work correctly at all. It hard compresses as long as the midi note is held and then releases.

I worked around this by freezing the track (which basically converts the midi data into analog audio) and then compressed. This works well but does "gate" the real time editability of the part in midi. It also forced me to add the compressor (on the track) after freezing. Then unfreezing and refreezing doesn't work as I expected.

Surely there is something here that I don't understand. Is this the recommended approach? Are there other plugins that will require the same treatment as this? Is there some other native way to do this that I just don't know about?

A little bit of background understanding will go a long way here for me and send me on my way.

Thanks in advance for any shared knowledge.

Cheers,

Rob

Where is the compressor in the chain. What else is on the chain.
What happens if you make a bus with the compressor and send the track to that.

[Robkress]

King,

Compressor more or less at the end of the chain. Other things in like Pro Q3 and S2 (saturator). Midi instrument is first in FX chain.

I have tried placing the compressor on the same track as the VSTi (at the end of the chain) and also in the folder parent. Both placements of the compressor exhibit the same behavior.

Rob

[AudioBabble]

Originally Posted by Robkress

However, the compressor doesn't work correctly at all. It hard compresses as long as the midi note is held and then releases.

I find this a curious situation... not sure if I understand correctly.

You appear to be describing a piano acting like an organ or something, where the sustain continues indefinitely until the note is released.... but in relation to the compressor.

-- this would suggest that your compressor is working off the midi note-on as a trigger, rather than the audio input -- could that be the case?

What are your settings in pro-C?

-- also, have you tried eliminating other fx from the chain to see if the problem really is with pro-C (pro-Q does compression too, depending on the settings and saturation is also compression to a degree)

[Robkress]

....ok now for sure there is something I don't understand.... as evidenced by two random folks indicating that they don't understand. I must be doing something wrong.

I am a midi novice. I actually never really touch midi except to program or record (midi keyboard) a pad for a song.

If I could attach a video or a picture to this thread I would show you a screenshot of what the compressor is doing... but alas, I have no idea how to do that (I've tried before and failed). :/

I suppose it's enough to say that the compressor is behaving like it is keying on the midi note and not the audio. So the compressor goes full compression while the note is held (to the level I adjust) and then releases when the note releases.

Is there some setting within Pro C2 that I don't have correct?

Thank you both for tapping in an asking basic questions.... and incredulous. Right.


Rob

[AudioBabble]

Originally Posted by Robkress

....ok now for sure there is something I don't understand.... as evidenced by two random folks indicating that they don't understand. I must be doing something wrong.

I am a midi novice. I actually never really touch midi except to program or record (midi keyboard) a pad for a song.

If I could attach a video or a picture to this thread I would show you a screenshot of what the compressor is doing... but alas, I have no idea how to do that (I've tried before and failed). :/

I suppose it's enough to say that the compressor is behaving like it is keying on the midi note and not the audio. So the compressor goes full compression while the note is held (to the level I adjust) and then releases when the note releases.

Is there some setting within Pro C2 that I don't have correct?

Thank you both for tapping in an asking basic questions.... and incredulous. Right.


Rob

get Licecap! https://www.cockos.com/licecap/

it will allow you to make gif-videos which are nice and small for uploading to somewhere like imgur.com.

once your gif-video is uploaded somewhere, right click it and copy image link...

then you can can insert the image link from imgur (or where-ever) in your post on this forum by enclosing it in 'img' tags, like this:

[img]https://imgur.com/yourlink.gif[/img]

-- EDIT ^^ I think licecap is windows-only BTW

[mschnell]

I suppose Postimage supports animated GIFs as well.

It allows for showing thumbnails in the forum and full images when clipcking them hence not bloating the forum with wide images.

[bolgwrad]

At the bottom left of FFProC2 there's a 'MIDI enable' button. Does that affect your signal?

[AudioBabble]

Originally Posted by Robkress

Is there some setting within Pro C2 that I don't have correct?

the only way I can see you ending up with midi notes controlling the compressor is if you clicked 'midi learn' in pro-c and assigned your midi from the piano to the threshold knob.

next to the midi learn button at the bottom of the pro-c window, there is a drop-down arrow -- try unchecking enable MIDI

[mschnell]

AFAIU, Pianoteq does not need compression, but has such functionality built-in. Hence compression for same only makes sense when mastering.

[AudioBabble]

Originally Posted by mschnell

AFAIU, Pianoteq does not need compression, but has such functionality built-in. Hence compression for same only makes sense when mastering.

I haven't looked at Pianoteq for a while... I have v.6 and I can't see any 'compressor' in it.

However, it does have a 'dynamics' setting: the difference between pianissimo and fortissimo.

Presumably if you set this all the way the left... i.e. '1db difference' then that would be similar to heavy compression/limiting.

(general comment: considering it's basically a synth, pianoteq has a great sound and all the advantages of small installer, low memory usage and low processor load)

[mschnell]

Pianoteq 8 does feature a compressor in "Effects".

[Robkress]

Hello All,

Posting back here because I solved my problem (any maybe it will help someone else in the future). Of course it wasn't that hard I just needed to look a little and test.

It turns out that Fabfilter Pco C2 enables midi by default. Because I never use midi to any extent, I don't ever interact with this button in the compressor.

Anyway, leaving this enabled causes the compressor to basically react to the midi note and not the audio. Disabling midi put everything right.

Thanks to all who chimed in with disbelief. Right.

Reaper rocks and the community is even better.

Cheers,

Rob