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Old 04-13-2021, 01:03 AM   #1
MixR
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Default ReaInsert (Loopback) causing Playback/Looping problem - please help me fix it!

[Update] 2021.04.13-23.40h
The below issue is caused by ReaInsert/(analogue) loopback. I had an analogue piece of outboard gear inserted on the Master Buss and when the instance of ReaInsert is bypassed playback and looping works as normal.

Same erratic behaviour confirmed if ReaInsert is used on Buss or directly on any track insert. Automatic device latency adjustment is ticked so perhaps this could be a PDC issue? With it un-ticked the audio obviously plays out of time.

Now I can't be the first person to be using outboard gear via ReaInsert so either this problem is happening to other people or something in my setup is causing it. I have already tried all sorts of combinations in Preferences > Buffering to no avail (for settings please see screenshot below).

I appreciate any help I can get with this as mixing with outboard gear is essential to me. In a typical mix I am using dozens of units and this issue is happening with a single instance of ReaInsert.


[Original post] 2021.04.13-9.05h
I am having this issue where Reaper will clip [as in truncate, chop off] the beginning of where I am playing from in the timeline:

Let's say I have a drum loop on Bar 1 Beat 1 and play from that position. What I hear Reaper play back is clipped by several samples and playback starts from after the cursor position sometimes missing out an entire media item.

The only way I can make Reaper play back the whole chunk of audio is by placing the cursor just before where I want or activate pre-roll. Looping/Cycling works fine, once the loop goes back to its start the audio is seamless. is also affected as can be seen in the video. This is obviously far from ideal as it makes looping a section of a song unworkable.

This happens across several block sizes and it seems as though the larger the block size the earlier I have to move the playback cursor in order for the whole file to play back.



Furthermore, when I record audio onto a track [not render] the audio is also clipped and missing its beginning.
In the screenshot below I am playing from the top of the bar and recording the output [routed looped through an analogue insert*] onto the track below.

*I/O delay is correctly set up and working fine. Subsequent files are recorded in full (no clipped samples) and line up sample-accurately.

If I play from just before the top of the bar the whole file will play back (and the result captured onto the destination track).
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Last edited by MixR; 04-13-2021 at 03:43 PM.
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Old 05-28-2021, 02:35 AM   #2
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There is another playback issue I am experiencing when using hardware inserts:

Anytime I undo anything the audio stops. Let's say I am looping a section of a song and am making an adjustment to a track's volume envelope. As soon as I undo that the audio stops (but transport carries on playing).
This is extremely annoying and very disruptive as I can't A/B any moves I am making without having to restart playback.
This issue can be circumvented by increasing the Block Size it seems but it does not work in the MIDI editor. When adding a note and undoing that all audio stops immediately - regardless of the Block Size
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Last edited by MixR; 05-28-2021 at 07:55 AM.
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Old 05-28-2021, 05:03 AM   #3
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Don't play or record from exact position where your audio starts, but give it a bit of pre-roll. Going external, it is expected to have things a bit uncertain at very beginning, because of latency compensation.
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Old 05-28-2021, 05:56 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicowl View Post
Don't play or record from exact position where your audio starts, but give it a bit of pre-roll. Going external, it is expected to have things a bit uncertain at very beginning, because of latency compensation.
Thank you. That makes sense of course. I had assumed that Reaper would pre-fill the buffer before playback so that whatever audio was meant to be playing at the playback position would actually be playing.

I am coming from a DSP based system where this was (presumably) happening behind the scenes. At least I cannot recall ever having the problems described above.
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Old 05-29-2021, 01:56 AM   #5
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Real time audio cant be pre buffered so give it some room. Looping works fine here, but might be system and/or prefs-dependent.

The faster your system is the better, especially single core performance wiil help with this. Look at the upcoming M1X macs (or even the current ones which will run circles around your system) or the Ryzen 9 series which are the current audio champions.
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Old 05-29-2021, 04:57 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlprod View Post
Real time audio cant be pre buffered so give it some room. Looping works fine here, but might be system and/or prefs-dependent.

The faster your system is the better, especially single core performance wiil help with this. Look at the upcoming M1X macs (or even the current ones which will run circles around your system) or the Ryzen 9 series which are the current audio champions.
Thanks, Magnus. I could definitely do with nailing down the preferences. Right now my Hackintosh is overclocked to 4.2GHz. When I started using Reaper three years ago I put this system together to augment my ancient (but fine), maxed out Pro Tools HD system with ProControl. I started offloading plug-in processing to the Reaper rig and it could easily handle 50 to 60 time based effects and reverbs for RT processing at 64 sample Block Size.

My long term goal has been to extract myself from the Avid environment and I have switched to Reaper for all new productions from this year.
RT CPU does not indicate a problem with the sessions I am currently running but now that my switch is becoming permanent I will upgrade my system at some point soon. I have been eyeing up Ryzens for a while but with that comes the change of OS and whilst I am pretty much through with Apple (user since mid nineties) this has been a hurdle that's put me off somewhat. I will reluctantly consider a MacPro if/when it is released (hopefully soon).
It is clear that Hardware inserts require a lot of CPU and from my limited experience I suppose this is not necessarily displayed accurately in the Performance Meter window.
My workflow is based around the use of many hardware inserts (48 channels at an absolute minimum) per mix. The I/O in Pro Tools is calculated as part of the DSP mixer with next to zero impact on the host CPU. It's just a pity that my old 32bit Pro Tools software sucks at everything else and I have decided not to enslave myself to a subscription model of any kind so anything newer is out of the question.

The question is how much more powerful a current Ryzen system will be in a real world scenario and how much RT performance I can expect from such a system. It seems that based on my setup and workflow a DSP based system could still have an edge when it comes to implementing hardware inserts - but the other bottlenecks annoy me enough to not want to go back to one.
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Old 05-29-2021, 11:41 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixR View Post
Thanks, Magnus. I could definitely do with nailing down the preferences. Right now my Hackintosh is overclocked to 4.2GHz. When I started using Reaper three years ago I put this system together to augment my ancient (but fine), maxed out Pro Tools HD system with ProControl. I started offloading plug-in processing to the Reaper rig and it could easily handle 50 to 60 time based effects and reverbs for RT processing at 64 sample Block Size.

My long term goal has been to extract myself from the Avid environment and I have switched to Reaper for all new productions from this year.
RT CPU does not indicate a problem with the sessions I am currently running but now that my switch is becoming permanent I will upgrade my system at some point soon. I have been eyeing up Ryzens for a while but with that comes the change of OS and whilst I am pretty much through with Apple (user since mid nineties) this has been a hurdle that's put me off somewhat. I will reluctantly consider a MacPro if/when it is released (hopefully soon).
It is clear that Hardware inserts require a lot of CPU and from my limited experience I suppose this is not necessarily displayed accurately in the Performance Meter window.
My workflow is based around the use of many hardware inserts (48 channels at an absolute minimum) per mix. The I/O in Pro Tools is calculated as part of the DSP mixer with next to zero impact on the host CPU. It's just a pity that my old 32bit Pro Tools software sucks at everything else and I have decided not to enslave myself to a subscription model of any kind so anything newer is out of the question.

The question is how much more powerful a current Ryzen system will be in a real world scenario and how much RT performance I can expect from such a system. It seems that based on my setup and workflow a DSP based system could still have an edge when it comes to implementing hardware inserts - but the other bottlenecks annoy me enough to not want to go back to one.
I see, that is a lot of inserts so you definitely should consider an upgrade eventually. Both Ryzen and M1X (hopefully) will destroy your current system, probably around 100% better in single core and 200-300% better in multicore performance. I myself am considering switching from my PC 9900x system to the M1X later this year, just to be a little more mobile. Of course hopefully plugins are mostly native by then.
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Old 05-30-2021, 06:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlprod View Post
I see, that is a lot of inserts so you definitely should consider an upgrade eventually. Both Ryzen and M1X (hopefully) will destroy your current system, probably around 100% better in single core and 200-300% better in multicore performance. I myself am considering switching from my PC 9900x system to the M1X later this year, just to be a little more mobile. Of course hopefully plugins are mostly native by then.
That is encouraging. Do you need mobility? If the M1X is anything to go by I would imagine that a desktop/workstation variant would be much more powerful.
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Old 05-30-2021, 11:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixR View Post
Do you need mobility?
Sure, it is good to have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MixR View Post
If the M1X is anything to go by I would imagine that a desktop/workstation variant would be much more powerful.
Not sure what you mean. The M1X will be put in mobile macs (MBP and Mini most likely)
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