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Old 07-14-2018, 04:50 AM   #1521
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Looking good

So no longer any need for 00 7F at the end of every message or the prefix 'Channel' for messages between 'Channel' and 'ChannelEnd'?

How's the .axt coming along?
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Old 07-14-2018, 06:17 AM   #1522
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Looking good

So no longer any need for 00 7F at the end of every message or the prefix 'Channel' for messages between 'Channel' and 'ChannelEnd'?

How's the .axt coming along?
Coming along well -- the new design to handle the widget type in the .axt is more or less defined, but the software still has to be written.
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Old 07-15-2018, 03:05 AM   #1523
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So no longer any need for 00 7F at the end of every message or the prefix 'Channel' for messages between 'Channel' and 'ChannelEnd'?

How's the .axt coming along?
There was never any need for the Channel prefix, other than convention, I say let's drop it.

On the other front, we're going to leave the .rst's alone for now.

Characteristics of the widget should stay in the .rst -- Press/PressRelease/Fader/Rotary, etc.

Usage, on the other hand, can be described in the .axt file -- e.g. treat this Press switch as a Toggle.

So it turns out we can just leave the .rst alone. and add the keyword (e.g. Toggle) to the .axt file grammar.
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Old 07-16-2018, 12:19 AM   #1524
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Long thread.
What's the status of this project?
What benefits over Klinke?
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Old 07-16-2018, 01:51 AM   #1525
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What's the status of this project?
pre alpha, hopefully alpha soon...

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Originally Posted by G-Sun View Post
What benefits over Klinke?
The main difference is the emphasis on integration.

The first phase is midi, but OSC will be added soon after.

It is also tuned for high performance.

Here's an ancient demo (it's faster now) with a 1420 track project, a 20 fader console, and a Console 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ravhFzHcYKI
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Old 07-16-2018, 05:11 AM   #1526
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What benefits over Klinke?
Primarily the use of more than one surface- Klinke no longer supports additional fader units. CSI allows you add as many as you like and combine surfaces from different manufacturers.

Performance is much faster than WaddC4 as well.
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Old 07-16-2018, 06:52 AM   #1527
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What benefits over Klinke?
Not limited to Windows OS.
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:35 AM   #1528
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New build is up: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/33037/CSI%20pre%20alpha.zip

New syntax for .rst files.

To define a C4 just enter it as an 8 channel, non-bankable and you'll get the 32 definitions generated.

@MixMonkey, can you change an .fxt line like this:

SomeButton Bypass

to this:

Toggle+SomeButton Bypass

and see if this turns it into a toggle -- SomeButton is probably best defined as a Press or PressFB in the .rst, but others may work too.

@michael, can you test this with switch type PressReleaseFB and see if that works in native mode on your X-Touch Compact ?

Everyone, please do a general check, I expect some bugs here
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Old 07-17-2018, 04:47 PM   #1529
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Hi Geoff, I have been out of the loop for ages, it looks like things are coming along nicely... I just watched your old youtube video demonstration, looks pretty sweet.

How hard would it be to set this up to work with my Icon Qcon Pro?

Also on a side note, that looks like a pretty sweet studio setup, what kind of specs/settings are on your computer? Im curious to know how youre able to run so many tracks with plugins
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:04 PM   #1530
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Hi Geoff, I have been out of the loop for ages, it looks like things are coming along nicely... I just watched your old youtube video demonstration, looks pretty sweet.

How hard would it be to set this up to work with my Icon Qcon Pro?
Had a quick look at the spec, looks like you just need to use the MCU setup to get a real good start


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Also on a side note, that looks like a pretty sweet studio setup, what kind of specs/settings are on your computer? Im curious to know how youre able to run so many tracks with plugins
Haha, that project won't play at all on my system (quad i7 mac mini)

It's just used to demonstrate the banking performance.
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:07 PM   #1531
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sweet, ill test it out asap and let you know how it goes.
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:10 PM   #1532
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what DAW mode should I set my Icon Pro to btw? I usually put it in Reaper mode, but theres lots of other options...
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:16 PM   #1533
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what DAW mode should I set my Icon Pro to btw? I usually put it in Reaper mode, but theres lots of other options...
Mackie Control protocol is probably best.
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:29 PM   #1534
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it doesnt have that option in the DAW mode selection, it has

Reaper, Reason, Cubase, Samplitude, Nuendo, and a few other DAWS, thats the only options the qcon pro has

a few things ive noticed so far.

1. any attempt to use my jog wheel instantly crashes reaper
2. my master fader is separate from the 8 main faders, its on the right, but its not working correctly, instead the master track is showing up as track 1 of my 8 normal track faders
3. banking left/right isnt working properly. this may have something to do with 2
4. i have to hold shift down to use my Read/Write/Trim etc buttons, not sure why
5. the FX button isnt working at all and i have no idea how to use the control surface to edit my FX
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:41 PM   #1535
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it doesnt have that option in the DAW mode selection, it has

Reaper, Reason, Cubase, Samplitude, Nuendo, and a few other DAWS, thats the only options the qcon pro has

a few things ive noticed so far.

1. any attempt to use my jog wheel instantly crashes reaper
2. my master fader is separate from the 8 main faders, its on the right, but its not working correctly, instead the master track is showing up as track 1 of my 8 normal track faders
3. banking left/right isnt working properly. this may have something to do with 2
4. i have to hold shift down to use my Read/Write/Trim etc buttons, not sure why
5. the FX button isnt working at all and i have no idea how to use the control surface to edit my FX
I guess choose Reaper for now.

Well, this is pre alpha software, thanks for testing.

You will probably want to "Pin" the Master fader, so that it doesn't bank with the rest.

The FX button doesn't do anything yet...

Hmmm... Jog wheel crashes ? - will look into that.
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:45 PM   #1536
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how do i pin master?
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Old 07-17-2018, 06:00 PM   #1537
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how do i pin master?
F7 to Pin any selected tracks
F8 to Unpin any selected tracks

Are you using Channel Left/Right and Bank Left/Right to bank ?

Also, remove any virtual surfaces except yours from the rightmost window in the config panel.
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Old 07-17-2018, 10:52 PM   #1538
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
New build is up: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/33037/CSI%20pre%20alpha.zip

New syntax for .rst files.

To define a C4 just enter it as an 8 channel, non-bankable and you'll get the 32 definitions generated.

@MixMonkey, can you change an .fxt line like this:

SomeButton Bypass

to this:

Toggle+SomeButton Bypass

and see if this turns it into a toggle -- SomeButton is probably best defined as a Press or PressFB in the .rst, but others may work too.

@michael, can you test this with switch type PressReleaseFB and see if that works in native mode on your X-Touch Compact ?

Everyone, please do a general check, I expect some bugs here
GREAT !!!

I'll check it out ASAP.

I suppose I should use the files coming with the ZIP and start modifying them from scratch for "XTouch native" support.

Any description about the "New syntax for .rst files." ?

What is "C4" ?

-Michael
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Old 07-18-2018, 02:28 AM   #1539
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I suppose I should use the files coming with the ZIP and start modifying them from scratch for "XTouch native" support.
Yes, and you should use PressRelease and PressReleaseFB type switches for this test.

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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
What is "C4" ?
Mackie C4, something like a Console 1, but much more flexible, including 2 displays per cell.


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Originally Posted by mschnell View Post
Any description about the "New syntax for .rst files." ?
FB = supports feedback

Press
outputs message on Press only
1 midi message
no feedback necessary/doesn't need Update from host

PressFB
outputs message on Press only — 1 or 0 depending on the current state
2 midi messages
feedback necessary/needs Update from host

PressRelease
outputs message on Press and on Release
2 midi messages
no feedback necessary/doesn't need Update from host

PressReleaseFB
outputs message on Press and on Release
2 midi messages
feedback necessary/needs Update from host

Fader14Bit
outputs a 2 byte 14 bit value
typically normalized, then sent to host
no feedback necessary/doesn't need Update from host

Fader14BitFB
outputs a 2 byte 14 bit value
typically normalized, then sent to host
feedback necessary/needs Update from host

Fader7Bit
outputs a 1 byte 7 bit value
typically normalized, then sent to host
no feedback necessary/doesn't need Update from host

Fader7BitFB
outputs a 1 byte 7 bit value
typically normalized, then sent to host
feedback necessary/needs Update from host

Encoder
outputs a 1 byte less/more value
sent raw to host
no feedback necessary/doesn't need Update from host

EncoderFB
outputs a 1 byte less/more value
typically normalized, then sent to host
feedback necessary/needs Update from host

MCUDisplayUpper, MCUDisplayLower, MCUXTDisplayUpper, MCUXTDisplayLower, C4DisplayUpper, C4DisplayLower
uses SysEx
feedback necessary/needs Update from host

VUMeter - e.g. generic meter
1 midi message
feedback necessary/needs Update from host

MCUVUMeter
1 midi message
very specialized
feedback necessary/needs Update from host

MCUTimeDisplay
multiple midi messages
very specialized
feedback necessary/needs Update from host
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Old 07-18-2018, 02:43 AM   #1540
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New build is up: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/33037/CSI%20pre%20alpha.zip

Fixed a bug in MCU.axt.
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Old Yesterday, 05:39 PM   #1541
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Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington View Post
@MixMonkey, can you change an .fxt line like this:

SomeButton Bypass

to this:

Toggle+SomeButton Bypass
This works

Definitions seem to be generated ok, mapped controls to D1-D8, all ok.

Turning a C4 control that isn't assigned in the .fxt quits Reaper. Seems to happen on 'Channel' 5-8 on the C4, 1-4 seem ok. Assigning the control in the .fxt prevents the quit.

MCU displays (Upper and Lower) show gibberish, but MCU/XT faders and buttons work ok and bank correctly.

Good work, considering how big a disruption the new button defs must have been
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Old Today, 12:23 AM   #1542
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Hi Geoff
I have an old Euphonix MC control V2 and so far I used the oldest eucon project from you (thanks for this!)The only drawback as you know is the slow responce on add/delete tracks. So i decide to test your new CSI. The problem is that the MC control does not responce at all. I have enable Mackie control protocol on Eucon control panel. I think Euphonix must be disabled on Reaper's Midi Devices but i'm not sure for this . I'm sure that I'm wrong somewhere but I do not know where.I would very much appreciate if someone could help me, or have one "ready to go" template for Euphonix MC Control. Thanks to Geoff and to all these great guys for the hard work. Keep going!
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Old Today, 02:54 AM   #1543
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Hi Geoff
I have an old Euphonix MC control V2 and so far I used the oldest eucon project from you (thanks for this!)The only drawback as you know is the slow responce on add/delete tracks. So i decide to test your new CSI. The problem is that the MC control does not responce at all. I have enable Mackie control protocol on Eucon control panel. I think Euphonix must be disabled on Reaper's Midi Devices but i'm not sure for this . I'm sure that I'm wrong somewhere but I do not know where.I would very much appreciate if someone could help me, or have one "ready to go" template for Euphonix MC Control. Thanks to Geoff and to all these great guys for the hard work. Keep going!
That all sounds right...

What EuControl version, what computer OS, etc., is the MC Control firmware up to date ?
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Old Today, 03:01 AM   #1544
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
This works

Definitions seem to be generated ok, mapped controls to D1-D8, all ok.
Good, thanks for testing !

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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Turning a C4 control that isn't assigned in the .fxt quits Reaper. Seems to happen on 'Channel' 5-8 on the C4, 1-4 seem ok. Assigning the control in the .fxt prevents the quit.
Yuchhh, we're never supposed to crash, this seems like it might be related to @matthewjumpsoffbuildings issue with the jog wheel, will look into this immediately.

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MCU displays (Upper and Lower) show gibberish, but MCU/XT faders and buttons work ok and bank correctly.
Cool, as you know flying blind with the MCU displays.

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Originally Posted by MixMonkey View Post
Good work, considering how big a disruption the new button defs must have been
Oh yeah, the whole front end has changed considerably, but I think the effort was worth it

Next up, .axt/.fxt files -- add the concept of matrix/cell for C4 style definitions -- see next post.
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Old Today, 03:04 AM   #1545
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Been thinking about the matrix concept for things like the C4, and wondering if we need full matrix navigation up/down/left/right.

Every use case I can think of is better implemented as up/down, or drill down, or a combo of the up/down and drill down.

Seems like having 4 way navigation on anything could easily get confusing, and actually slow you down.

What say you folks...
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Old Today, 05:03 AM   #1546
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Been thinking about the matrix concept for things like the C4, and wondering if we need full matrix navigation up/down/left/right.

Every use case I can think of is better implemented as up/down, or drill down, or a combo of the up/down and drill down.

Seems like having 4 way navigation on anything could easily get confusing, and actually slow you down.

What say you folks...
Certainly doesn't need to move in two directions. I see it more as 'banking' in jumps set by the 'channel' size in the .rst- the C4 would navigate in jumps of 8, for instance.

I see the direction as more up-down than left-right, plug in slots are arranged vertically, but there may be other uses that would suit left-right better. Perhaps we could choose one or the other via .axt

Am I right in assuming sends would be dealt with on a separate, bankable Page? I see sends as the other principle use of the C4 (or any other 'knob array' type surface eg BCR2000) and pictured it as 8 channels of 8 sends following one of the other surfaces around (ie the MCU or one of the XTs)
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Old Today, 06:02 AM   #1547
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Certainly doesn't need to move in two directions. I see it more as 'banking' in jumps set by the 'channel' size in the .rst- the C4 would navigate in jumps of 8, for instance.

I see the direction as more up-down than left-right, plug in slots are arranged vertically, but there may be other uses that would suit left-right better. Perhaps we could choose one or the other via .axt

Am I right in assuming sends would be dealt with on a separate, bankable Page? I see sends as the other principle use of the C4 (or any other 'knob array' type surface eg BCR2000) and pictured it as 8 channels of 8 sends following one of the other surfaces around (ie the MCU or one of the XTs)
Yeah, pretty much how I see it, either up/down or left/right but not both simultaneously.

Left/Right is equivalent to channel based.
Up/Down is equivalent to slot based.

My current thinking is that sends are handled on another page, in the case of multiple controllers, perhaps a controller set to non-bankable that handles just sends on that page, as per your suggestion.

Example of hypothetical sends page using my setup:
2 mixes - 16 channels -- bankable -- as usual
1 Control - 4 channels -- non-bankable -- dedicated to selected channel sends (max 4 in this case)
1 Console 1 -- 1 channel - non-bankable -- dedicated to FX on elected channel.

This is where bankable/bank stride on a per page basis comes in handy.
On "normal" pages the bank stride would be 20 (8 + 8 + 4), and all would be bankable.
On this page the bank stride would be 16, since the Control is not bankable on this page.
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Old Today, 06:07 AM   #1548
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New build is up: https://stash.reaper.fm/v/33037/CSI%20pre%20alpha.zip

Hopefully fixed crash with non-mapped widgets.

Try MCU displays again please, might have fixed them.

New syntax for .fxt files:

If the param has spaces, it must now be in quotes like so:

HFGain "HF Atten"

This is in anticipation of the new .axt/.fxt design work.
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Old Today, 12:24 PM   #1549
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That all sounds right...

What EuControl version, what computer OS, etc., is the MC Control firmware up to date ?
Ok. I have Windows 10 x64 with EuControl 18.3.0.244 (formally 3.8), EUCON Client Monitoring Service 4.0.7.244, MC Control Firmware 1.3.7.0, Reaper X64 5.7.9
Also when i press the button "choose" from track colour page, Reaper hangs
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