Old 01-24-2023, 04:06 PM   #1
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Default Deleting volume envelope moves fader

Sometimes I have a project, and I want to keep say the guitar at a given level for the mix, but I want to track it louder. I don't want to lose the level I was at, and there's processing on the track. So, what makes sense to me, is to add a volume envelope, and then pump that up, and the fader never gets moved, so I can just delete it after tracking, and my level is back where it was.

Problem is, reaper decides that I want to keep the same level but just get rid of the envelope, so it moves the fader to what I believe must be the exact same level the envelope was making it, which completely defeats the purpose.

How can I get the functionality I'm looking for?
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Old 01-24-2023, 04:45 PM   #2
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There's a setting that has something to do with resetting the trim when creating envelopes. Not sure if that will help but worth looking at. So maybe it's happening when you create the envelope.

"When adding volume/pan envelopes, apply trim to envelope and reset trim"
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Old 01-24-2023, 10:50 PM   #3
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I believe that setting just has to do with the visual of the fader and doesn’t affect the performance of the envelope at all.
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Old 01-24-2023, 11:04 PM   #4
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You set your level with your track fader with track in trim/read mode. You then add a volume envelope automation. Record your automation volume fader moves. Now set the track fader back to trim/read mode.

The automation on the envelope track remains and plays back. The track fader no longer moves and can now be used as a master track level adjust with the automation still present. Click the bypass button on the volume envelope track if you want that turned off and just listening to the track fader level while in trim/read mode.
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Old 01-25-2023, 09:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylar_battles View Post
I believe that setting just has to do with the visual of the fader and doesn’t affect the performance of the envelope at all.
Apparently.... I was hoping we could trick it into doing the opposite but it looks like once you set the envelope, that's the new volume regardless.

@Sound Asleep.

You could create snapshot before you create the envelope. It's probably "about" the same amount of steps. Then just recall that snapshot when ready and the volume will return to the original. I might could find other ways, if I have more time later.

My main concern with this is it could be easy to click one you didn't mean to click if you don't delete them as you go.

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Old 01-28-2023, 02:02 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
There's a setting that has something to do with resetting the trim when creating envelopes. Not sure if that will help but worth looking at. So maybe it's happening when you create the envelope.

"When adding volume/pan envelopes, apply trim to envelope and reset trim"
Whattup Karbo! Definitely happens when I delete the envelope.

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Originally Posted by Rednroll View Post
You set your level with your track fader with track in trim/read mode. You then add a volume envelope automation. Record your automation volume fader moves. Now set the track fader back to trim/read mode.

The automation on the envelope track remains and plays back. The track fader no longer moves and can now be used as a master track level adjust with the automation still present. Click the bypass button on the volume envelope track if you want that turned off and just listening to the track fader level while in trim/read mode.
I'm not really interested in doing any sort of automation. I just want a way to temporarily globally change the volume of the track, so that I can record some parts, and then go back to the original volume easily. My way was to add a volume envelope that has no points, and raise the volume, and then just delete it, and the volume will be back where it was. Except it doesn't do that. It keeps the volume at the same level, but just removes the envelope and increases the fader to compensate so the level you hear is the same, but the envelope is gone, and the fader is moved.


Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Apparently.... I was hoping we could trick it into doing the opposite but it looks like once you set the envelope, that's the new volume regardless.

@Sound Asleep.

You could create snapshot before you create the envelope. It's probably "about" the same amount of steps. Then just recall that snapshot when ready and the volume will return to the original. I might could find other ways, if I have more time later.

My main concern with this is it could be easy to click one you didn't mean to click if you don't delete them as you go.

Snapshot might be the key. I keep forgetting about snapshots. Thanks! I'll use that next time. I don't have much experience with them.

I'm not sure I understand your concern. Wdym?
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Old 02-02-2023, 02:22 PM   #7
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I'm not sure I understand your concern. Wdym?
I just meant it might be easy to accidentally click or delete a snapshot, not a big deal. Hope it works for you my friend!
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Old 02-02-2023, 02:36 PM   #8
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What you’re actually trying to accomplish is for the track you’re recording to be a bit louder relative to the rest of the mix with an easy way to revert on playback. I wonder if “solo in front” would help with that. It kind of comes at it from the opposite direction - turning down the rest of the mix instead of turning up the one track - so you might end up wanting to turn up your master or monitors to compensate, but I think it’s less messing around overall.
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Old 02-03-2023, 05:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
I just meant it might be easy to accidentally click or delete a snapshot, not a big deal. Hope it works for you my friend!
Thanks man, definitely will give it a go.

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Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
What you’re actually trying to accomplish is for the track you’re recording to be a bit louder relative to the rest of the mix with an easy way to revert on playback. I wonder if “solo in front” would help with that. It kind of comes at it from the opposite direction - turning down the rest of the mix instead of turning up the one track - so you might end up wanting to turn up your master or monitors to compensate, but I think it’s less messing around overall.
So far, I think snapshots might be the way to go for me, but what is "solo in front" exactly?
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Old 02-03-2023, 05:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
So far, I think snapshots might be the way to go for me, but what is "solo in front" exactly?
It’s a solo mode where instead of muting everything else, it just turns down the rest of the mix by an amount that you can define in preferences.
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Old 02-03-2023, 06:01 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sound asleep View Post
what is "solo in front" exactly?
Possibly easier if it works for you.

It's an option that when enabled, turns everything else down by your desired amount except the track you clicked the solo button on. Enable/disable the setting under Options and you can set by how much it "dims" everything else under Options > Preferences > Mute/Solo > Solo Settings: "Solo in front dimming".
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Old 02-03-2023, 06:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashcat_lt View Post
It’s a solo mode where instead of muting everything else, it just turns down the rest of the mix by an amount that you can define in preferences.
Oh I see. And I access that by right clicking the solo button I guess? Maybe that might be easier after all.

EDIT: Not by right clicking solo button.
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Old 02-03-2023, 07:46 PM   #13
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Oh I see. And I access that by right clicking the solo button I guess? Maybe that might be easier after all.

EDIT: Not by right clicking solo button.
Just click the solo button as normal with the option on. You could make a shortcut or button that toggles it on off so you have regular solo and solo in front as needed.
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Old 02-04-2023, 12:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Just click the solo button as normal with the option on. You could make a shortcut or button that toggles it on off so you have regular solo and solo in front as needed.
Oh ok, I'll check that out. thanks!
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Old 02-04-2023, 01:21 PM   #15
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This?
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread....64#post1658664
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Old 02-04-2023, 02:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
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Ya, maybe adding a... pointless point would be another solution.
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