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09-22-2006, 06:02 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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Stucked buffer (FIXED)
in stop-mode
-> play/monitor a vsti from a midikeyboard
-> open the audio-device panel (or close reaper) while you hear the sound of the vsti
=> stucked buffer
Last edited by Dstruct; 09-23-2006 at 02:42 AM.
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09-26-2006, 12:22 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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also happens sometimes when closing a project (which is in playback-mode)
just got it extremely weird: closed a project (while in playback-mode) -> no stucked buffer -> opened reaper => now reaper played something from the closed project (last buffer?) ... strange!
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12-16-2006, 10:03 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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still remaining
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01-02-2007, 07:02 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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justin? reaper's fault or the audio-driver's?
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01-03-2007, 01:36 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 22,572
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doesnt seem to happen to me with asio4all.
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01-03-2007, 10:16 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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if i remember correctly (don't have a soundcard to test at the moment) it doesn't/didn't happen always. so yeah maybe a driver-issue?
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01-03-2007, 01:10 PM
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#7
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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let me guess, RME?
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01-03-2007, 01:30 PM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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of course
so you know what's the problem? please tell me. then i can ask the guys at rme ...
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01-03-2007, 06:25 PM
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#9
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff
of course
so you know what's the problem? please tell me. then i can ask the guys at rme ...
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they really need to clear their buffers on asio close.. I thought I added something to address that, but maybe I'll take a look at that again..
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01-03-2007, 10:58 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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ok, i'll send a mail to rme too ...
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01-05-2007, 09:27 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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just tried it to reproduce with reaper 1.60. no chance. seems to be fixed. let's see ...
Last edited by Dstruct; 01-05-2007 at 10:31 AM.
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01-08-2007, 10:15 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
they really need to clear their buffers on asio close
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ok, just got a response from rme too.
-----------------------------------
"clearing the buffers on asio close" is something the rme drivers do (of course)!
to them it seems reaper doesn't behave correctly in some situations
-> buffers have to be created
-> buffers needs to be filled
-> asio playback has to be started
-> later playback has to be stopped first
-> buffers have to be cleared
-> stop asio
typical mistakes are to just stop asio in some situations or to clear the buffers without stopping playback before.
the rme drivers contain certain routines which help to handle crashes and buggy programming of programs better.
the next beta18 (hdsp drivers) will get an additional routine which also clears the buffers where the program didn't do it (just stopped asio for example).
Last edited by Dstruct; 01-08-2007 at 10:19 AM.
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01-20-2007, 06:41 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
they really need to clear their buffers on asio close.. I thought I added something to address that, but maybe I'll take a look at that again..
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just tested this again on reaper 1.69 after a fresh windows-reboot (so no other applications have played anything before, windows sounds disabled as well):
-> start reaper
-> start playback
-> close reaper while playback
=> can't hear any hanging buffers
BUT:
-> restart reaper
=> now i hear the (last) buffer(s) from the previous closed session for a very short time!? reaper-problem or driver-problem? to me it looks like an reaper-issue, as other asio-applications don't show this behaviour!
the option "pre-zero output buffers" also doesn't help to solve this problem!
Last edited by Dstruct; 01-20-2007 at 06:58 AM.
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01-20-2007, 10:53 AM
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#14
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff
reaper-problem or driver-problem? to me it looks like an reaper-issue, as other asio-applications don't show this behaviour!
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Vegas often does with RME.. but no other ASIO driver shows this behavior...
Try this version:
http://reaper.fm/files/reaper169_rme.zip
(pre-zero output buffers should be on)
-Justin
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01-20-2007, 11:05 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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seems to be a bit better, but not completely. this "remaining" buffer seems to be a bit shorter now. but there's no difference between enabled and disabled "pre-zero buffers"!?
also when closing reaper (while playback) i get a (nasty) click/crackle. and i get it when restarting reaper.
again: foobar2000 (@asio) behaves absolutely smooth (not a single crackle or stucked buffer) when doing the same (closing while playback and reopening the app)!?
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01-20-2007, 11:08 AM
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#16
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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I'm doing everything per their instructions.. so I dunno..
is the nasty crackle on close new in this version or was it there before?
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01-20-2007, 11:08 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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also before.
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01-20-2007, 11:11 AM
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#18
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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hmm, you can tell the RME folks that we do something like this:
Code:
if (pre_zero_mode_is_on)
{
// wait until the audio callback has delivered 4 frames of silence
}
ASIOStop();
ZeroAllOutputBuffers();
ASIODisposeBuffers();
ASIOExit();
ask them if there is something wrong with that? It works perfectly EVERYWHERE else..
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01-20-2007, 11:19 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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ok i'll do so.
so you can close reaper while playback (and reopen after that) without getting any glitches on your motu?
note (just tested more): when just playing one audio-track it's a bit better! sometimes i even get no glitch when closing reaper while playback in this case! but the last buffer still plays for a short time on reopening in this case too.
but i'm not working with audio in the "problem" project. just my vstis (surge and shortcircuit).
maybe you can also do bit more testing with heavier vsti-loaded project?
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01-20-2007, 11:21 AM
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#20
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff
ok i'll do so.
so you can close reaper while playback (and reopen after that) without getting any glitches on your motu?
note (just tested more): when just playing one audio-track it's a bit better! sometimes i even get no glitch when closing reaper while playback in this case!
but i'm not working with audio in the "problem" project. just my vstis (surge and shortcircuit).
maybe you can also do bit more testing with heavier vsti-loaded project?
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I get absolutely no glitches in those scenarios, even on projects that are using 90%+ of my dual cores. I'll test with more VSTi, though...
same goes for asio4all on laptop hardware..
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01-20-2007, 11:25 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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ok, thank you!
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01-20-2007, 11:50 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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@other rme-users: do you also get this behaviour?
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01-20-2007, 12:33 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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@justin: did you test with "always run track FX" enabled? if i disable it it seems i just get the crackle(s), but not the hanging buffer when restarting reaper!?
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01-20-2007, 07:29 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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Just (3:00am @ Sunday) got a response from RME. The guy said if Reaper would do
------------------------
if (pre_zero_mode_is_on)
{
// wait until the audio callback has delivered 4 frames of silence
}
ASIOStop();
ZeroAllOutputBuffers();
ASIODisposeBuffers();
ASIOExit();
-----------------------
ALWAYS (means in EVERY situation), then there would be no problem!
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01-22-2007, 09:21 AM
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#25
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,051
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my fighting with RME goes back years. The guys had always been arrogant asses, and we couldnt get their stuff to work in anything but cubendo. When synthax got Magix, all of a sudden RME worked in samplitude fine when it hadnt before.
Ive been trying to get any RME help for reaper since the beginning, but we have years of angst between us
Justin got the RME stuff running way better in here than vegas, but still I get the stuck buffer problems often.
Im glad you got thbru to them, cant wait to see what Justin will cook up in response....
I love this part "the rme drivers contain certain routines which help to handle crashes and buggy programming of programs better.
"
RME are the only cards that bug out like this in reaper, vegas and sonar, even soundblasters dont have this trouble...bah, but when they work, they work so good!!!!!
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01-22-2007, 10:15 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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but the thing is here it happens only with reaper!?
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01-22-2007, 12:07 PM
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#27
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff
Just (3:00am @ Sunday) got a response from RME. The guy said if Reaper would do
------------------------
if (pre_zero_mode_is_on)
{
// wait until the audio callback has delivered 4 frames of silence
}
ASIOStop();
ZeroAllOutputBuffers();
ASIODisposeBuffers();
ASIOExit();
-----------------------
ALWAYS (means in EVERY situation), then there would be no problem!
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REAPER does this in all closing-audio scenarios, whether playing or not.. If it is hanging and you kill it from the task manager it wouldn't, but hitting alt+F4 while playing back should absolutely do that.
So...
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01-22-2007, 12:15 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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no, it doesn't. but: it seems it depends on the actual play-position (maybe not zereo-crossing sounds ...), so that it sometimes is a bit better and sometimes it's worse.
and i use the mouse to close reaper (clicking "x" in the titlebar) - but alt+f4 seems to have the same behaviour ...
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01-22-2007, 01:19 PM
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#29
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dandruff
no, it doesn't
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You're telling me that that code isn't being called when you quit by clicking close or Alt+F4? How do you know this?
I'm looking at what happens there, and I can say that it is.. unless something really bizarre is happening on your system (i.e. the process gets terminated before our message loop exits, which would be very odd)..
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01-22-2007, 01:22 PM
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#30
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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here try this:
http://reaper.fm/files/reaper169_rme2.zip
this will show an annoying messagebox every time the audio device is about to be closed. do your close and see if it pops open...
-Justin
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01-22-2007, 01:22 PM
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#31
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,051
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I can close reaper and have the last sound stuck reapeating until I open another audio app and do something with the drivers, like play a file
some apps I have to play something to get the noise to stop, with reaper you need only open the app
This same thing happens in sonar, sound forge, and vegas with the rme cards
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01-22-2007, 01:29 PM
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#32
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Mortal
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Wickenburg, Arizona
Posts: 14,051
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ok with this test build, it pops up the box right in the place where before I would hear the stuck buffer, is that the same for you dandruff?
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01-22-2007, 01:37 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
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now i get this:
-> playback
-> close
=> i hear a short crackle (maybe this is normal due to the position when not at zero-crossing!? although i don't get this crackle in foobar@asio)
-> now the pop-up will be displayed
=> and finally: NOT a single crackle or buffer when reopening reaper! great! so this is a fix or what?
Last edited by Dstruct; 01-22-2007 at 01:44 PM.
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01-22-2007, 01:40 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
You're telling me that that code isn't being called when you quit by clicking close or Alt+F4? How do you know this?
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ggr. i just wanted to say that it (or something) isn't working correctly. i don't care who's fault it is (rme's or reaper's) as long as all developers communicate with me to narrow things down to solve this problem!
easy
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01-22-2007, 01:42 PM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pipelineaudio
ok with this test build, it pops up the box right in the place where before I would hear the stuck buffer, is that the same for you dandruff?
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no it pops up after a short crackle. read two posts above ...
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01-22-2007, 03:29 PM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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no. now i get the crackle and short buffer again when restarting reaper ...
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01-22-2007, 03:37 PM
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#38
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
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01-22-2007, 03:45 PM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 12,482
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no. doesn't help. just looks/sounds like the crackle:buffer ratio has changed a bit. less crackle, bit longer buffer.
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01-22-2007, 04:03 PM
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#40
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Administrator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 15,746
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we'll shutting down the way RME wants.. I don't know what to tell you as far as why it makes the noise... :/
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