UADx Native plugins don't utilize multithreading

[HighVoltage]

The new UADx plugins for Windows behave very badly in Reaper. It's maybe on UAD's side, but i post it here anyway.

They seem to not utilize multiprocessing the right way and they bottleneck the system VERY fast.

I made a simple test scenario to reproduce:
I used the Hitsville EQ plugin for testing, cause it uses a lot of CPU per instance. Around 7-8% on a 4Ghz core.

1. In Reaper i make an empty track (preferably with an audio loop running to test audio dropouts)
2. I insert 8 Hitsville EQs on first track.
3. I enable record on track, everything is fine - See image: https://prnt.sc/KDwYV8LFwxc1
4. Now i duplicate the track. With a 12 core machine, i should be able to duplicate this 12 times and the project should run just fine. I did this in Ableton Live, and works without a hickup. See image https://prnt.sc/E-hZqYHI_Zte
5. In Reaper i can only duplicate it twice, and the sound already drops out and Reaper's CPU meter is in the red. You can see the task manager that only 4 logical cores are working. https://prnt.sc/qTCBbTo6wH8w

This can be noticed very quickly when working, you run into CPU spikes and issues with only a handful of UADx plugins in Reaper.

Like i said the same thing in Ableton Live works just fine on the same system.

Reaper 5.78 - 6.68
Win 10 x64

[HighVoltage]

Don't know if this is at all related, but Reaper can't correctly show the CPU usage of the new UADx plugins for Windows.

I put it to 1.0c mode, and insert 5-6 instances of the exact same plugin and Repaer shows vastly different CPU readings for all the instances.

[Funkybot]

I'm seeing similar behavior here. Using the new UADx VST3 plugins, on Windows 10, with an AMD Ryzen 3950x.

Pre-Condition: Using the "Worst Case" option on the Performance Meter and starting with an empty project.

1. Create a new track
2. Insert Hitsville Mastering EQ

Result: Performance meter shows about 11-12% CPU on that core (FX Longest-Block column). So far so good.

3. Create another new track
4. Insert Hitsville Mastering EQ

Result: Performance meter of Track 1 now shows 16-20% of a core. Second instance shows about 15%.

5. Repeat steps 3 and 4

Result: Now each instance is showing between 22-26% of a core.

...and so on. It quickly increases with each new instance.

Here's after 9 instances on 9 tracks...

[Funkybot]

Just to update, Universal Audio support suggesting turning off Anticipative FX Processing and that did seem to resolve that in the short-term.

[pekki]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Just to update, Universal Audio support suggesting turning off Anticipative FX Processing and that did seem to resolve that in the short-term.

Really? That's good news, I hope. Never had that option turned off, it's probably on by default.

Do you have to turn it off for rendering as well?

Does turning off this option affect your work otherwise?

Sorry for the multiple questions, I was happy to try this when it came out, but I quickly got away from it after I saw the horrific CPU utilization.

TIA!

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by pekki

Really? That's good news, I hope. Never had that option turned off, it's probably on by default.

Do you have to turn it off for rendering as well?

Does turning off this option affect your work otherwise?

Sorry for the multiple questions, I was happy to try this when it came out, but I quickly got away from it after I saw the horrific CPU utilization.

TIA!

My understanding is that this might lead to higher CPU usage with low latencies when you've got input monitoring engaged. Someone correct me if I'm wrong on that.

So it's not ideal that it doesn't work with Reaper's Anticipative FX processing, because you'd probably want to keep that in if CPU usage while live monitoring at low latencies is a concern. But this is probably negated somewhere by modern CPU's with larger and larger thread counts.

Again, someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I only just tried it out last night to see if the CPU load balancing was resolved. Haven't spent a lot of time actually operating Reaper with this off.

If the Reaper devs see this and have anything that can be relayed to UA support, I'd be happy to pass along any message.

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Just to update, Universal Audio support suggesting turning off Anticipative FX Processing and that did seem to resolve that in the short-term.

Thanks for reporting it, but unfortunately this does not do anything here. It was actually the very first thing i tried when i ran into the problem...

Strange that UAD got back to you, cause i think was the first one reporting it, and i only got a reply more than a week ago that they will contact me soon, but never happened

Do you guys have AMD or Intel CPUs?

About Anticipative processing:
This function is i think what makes Reaper the best DAW in terms of CPU usage.
It only works when input monitoring is OFF though. So anytime you press record on a track, Anticipative processing is automatically turned off.
(you could check if you leave Anticipative ON, but enable record on all tracks, that it solves the UAD bug for you)

My understanding is something like this:
It's like pre-rendering in video applications, Reaper processes a chunk of audio even before you press play, and that eases up the CPU so much that you can gain more than triple your CPU headroom on some cases .

For example a project that would start to crackle and drop-out at 57% of CPU usage, with anticipative ON, you can utilize up to 97% of your system.

It's a huge deal and i would not want to use it without this, cause then it would make all my other plugins use so much more CPU, not just the UADs.

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by pekki

Really? That's good news, I hope. Never had that option turned off, it's probably on by default.

TIA!

Does turning it OFF solve the issue for you?

[pekki]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

Does turning it OFF solve the issue for you?

I removed the whole Spark collection soon after, and after initial troubleshooting, I quickly lost nerves and figured it was not worth the while.

Maybe I'll check again, but based on your overview of what anticipative FX option does, maybe I won't.

I have an Intel btw, i7-7700k

[Funkybot]

High Voltage, I've got an AMD 3950x system here if that helps any. I thought it was a little weird too because support's response to me came pretty quickly but also sounded like no one else reported the issue. Maybe your support request ended up in the wrong queue.

[HighVoltage]

It would be nice to hear from Cockos, wether the issue can be reproduced.
I have tried 3 other DAWs (live, bitwig, studio one) on the same system, and they are working perfectly.
So that narrows it down to Reaper only. And i have installed Reaper totally clean.

Meanwhile I have stumbled into something that might be of interest:

I tried loading the plugins into bluecat's patchwork.
Which is essentially just acting as a host for the plugin.
https://www.bluecataudio.com/Product...uct_PatchWork/

With the plugins wrapped into patchwork, it again works great. I could load up 156 instances of the Neve 1073 with EQ engaged. (4 instances on 39 tracks)

https://prnt.sc/OltePNCbBpQd

As you can see the CPU is fully utilized at 98%, all cores working at max. On Reapers CPU meter, each track shows ~0.54c of CPU usage.

Now if i combine the Patchworked and native VST3 plugins here is what happens:

https://prnt.sc/dRKqIEr1sXO1

I loaded up 4 tracks of 4 instances of Neve inside Patchwork on the first 4 tracks. Reaper shows 0.38c of cpu usage on those.
The next 4 tracks i loaded the same amount, but with the native VST3 version. Reaper shows 127% of CPU usage/core, and the audio is stuttering and drops out, while the max CPU usage is at 15%

So it must be the way Reaper loads the VST3 plugins...

[playtimer]

Just installed latest UADx native VST3 plugins and I was shocked how much CPU they take.

A single instance of Hitsville Chambers shows 17% CPU usage in Reaper.

What's even worse, upon removing the UADx plugin CPU utilization stays like plugin is not unloaded at all. CPU goes to the max with handfull of UADx plugins very quickly.

I have tested the same in Cubase Pro 12 and Studio One 6 and it's better, but this issue in Reaper is really strange...

I was wondering does anyone else has the same issue on Windows?
Or perhaps devs can look into it?

Intel i9 9900k
64 GB RAM
Gigabyte z390 Designare
Samsung 970 PRO NVMe
Windows 10 Pro 21H2
Reaper 6.73 x64

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by playtimer

Just installed latest UADx native VST3 plugins and I was shocked how much CPU they take.

A single instance of Hitsville Chambers shows 17% CPU usage in Reaper.

What's even worse, upon removing the UADx plugin CPU utilization stays like plugin is not unloaded at all. CPU goes to the max with handfull of UADx plugins very quickly.

I have tested the same in Cubase Pro 12 and Studio One 6 and it's better, but this issue in Reaper is really strange...

I was wondering does anyone else has the same issue on Windows?
Or perhaps devs can look into it?

Intel i9 9900k
64 GB RAM
Gigabyte z390 Designare
Samsung 970 PRO NVMe
Windows 10 Pro 21H2
Reaper 6.73 x64

Just got a reply back from them, and they are looking into this.
So fingers crossed there might be a solution.

Mind you, the Hitsville chamber is REALLY that CPU intensive.
It uses 13% here on a Ryzen 3900x, so 17% on 9900k is looking normal to me.

[playtimer]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

Just got a reply back from them, and they are looking into this.
So fingers crossed there might be a solution.

Mind you, the Hitsville chamber is REALLY that CPU intensive.
It uses 13% here on a Ryzen 3900x, so 17% on 9900k is looking normal to me.

Yes, I know it is CPU intensive - uses a lot of SHARC power too, that's why I've tested it.

Thanks for the heads up! Good you have some feedback from UA support and hopefully there will be some fix

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by playtimer

Yes, I know it is CPU intensive - uses a lot of SHARC power too, that's why I've tested it.

Thanks for the heads up! Good you have some feedback from UA support and hopefully there will be some fix

I mean the REAPER team is looking into it.

I got a response from UA team and they told me that this is an edge case and only been narrowed down to Ryzen 3000 CPU users, but since they are not supporting REAPER officially, there is no foreseeable developement there.
There are at least 2 intel reports here in this thread, so it might be good if you officially report it too.

[playtimer]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

I mean the REAPER team is looking into it.

I got a response from UA team and after 3 months of back and forth they told me that this is an edge case and only reported by Ryzen 3000 CPU users, and they are not supporting REAPER officially, so that's it from them...
There are at least 2 intel reports here in this thread, so it might be good if you officially report it too.

Ah, ok then... even better Cockos devs are looking into it.

Sure, I will open a ticket with UA support and post a thread about it on UAD forums too.

Fingers crossed!

[Funkybot]

Head's up: it looks like there's a first stab at a fix for this in Reaper if you know where to check for that sort of thing. Haven't checked it out yet myself but will do so later today.

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Head's up: it looks like there's a first stab at a fix for this in Reaper if you know where to check for that sort of thing. Haven't checked it out yet myself but will do so later today.

It didn't work for me...

[Funkybot]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

It didn't work for me...

Please post in the pre-release thread with your experiences with new build. I won't get a chance to even check it out until after work this evening at the earliest.

[playtimer]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Please post in the pre-release thread with your experiences with new build. I won't get a chance to even check it out until after work this evening at the earliest.

Yes, please do post. I will be able to test it over the weekend so let's see how it goes...

BTW, I have the feeling it's going to be rather annoying bug considering UA's way of work. I hope Justin and Schwa will squash it somehow

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by Funkybot

Please post in the pre-release thread with your experiences with new build. I won't get a chance to even check it out until after work this evening at the earliest.

I'm in contact with Justin himself via email, and he is super responsive BTW, hats off. But sure, i will move my updates to the dev thread.

So far i provided him with more info and he is looking into it again.

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

It didn't work for me...

Its fixed!!!!

My bad, i accidentally left "Buggy plugin behaviour" ticked for the plugin i was testing with.

[playtimer]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

Its fixed!!!!

My bad, i accidentally left "Buggy plugin behaviour" ticked for the plugin i was testing with.

Really? That is GREAT news! Can't wait to try it!

Thank you for posting back and your engagement around this issue with Justin

[Uqbar]

I'm having the same issue on a i7 4070K machine on Windows 11.

The latest pre-Release doesn't seem to fix the issue on my case

I've noticed some details thou:

The CPU spikes when a new UADx plugin is loaded, but if I load another instance of the same plugin again, then the CPU load for this last one is the "expected" one.
For example:
I load a Neve1073, the CPU rises to 23%. If I remove the instance the CPU load stays on 23%. I load a Studer, 45%. I load an API2500,, 71%. I remove all of them, CPU stays on 71%. If I load another Studer, or Neve or API 2500, the CPU load only rises to a less than 1%, so, 71.4%.
But then I load a Brigade Chorus, for example, and CPU rises again to 90%. I remove every FX, CPU stays on 90%

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by Uqbar

I'm having the same issue on a i7 4070K machine on Windows 11.

The latest pre-Release doesn't seem to fix the issue on my case

I've noticed some details thou:

The CPU spikes when a new UADx plugin is loaded, but if I load another instance of the same plugin again, then the CPU load for this last one is the "expected" one.
For example:
I load a Neve1073, the CPU rises to 23%. If I remove the instance the CPU load stays on 23%. I load a Studer, 45%. I load an API2500,, 71%. I remove all of them, CPU stays on 71%. If I load another Studer, or Neve or API 2500, the CPU load only rises to a less than 1%, so, 71.4%.
But then I load a Brigade Chorus, for example, and CPU rises again to 90%. I remove every FX, CPU stays on 90%

The problem that was fixed is different than what you describe (but might be connected), although @playtimer describe the same thing as yours (and i also remember someone from gearspace)

Also, those cpu percentages seem extremely high even for that old cpu.

Originally Posted by Uqbar

The latest pre-Release doesn't seem to fix the issue on my case

Did you download the "LATEST" pre-release or "pre119"?
It's very important, cause the latest does not have this fix. ONLY PRE119

[Uqbar]

Ok! I've installed the latest one assuming they were accumulative. I'm going to try the 19 right now and let you know the outcome.

Thanks!

[Uqbar]

Same behaviour with the dev119

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Uqbar

Same behaviour with the dev119

Go to the plug-in "+" menu, go to Compatibility settings, make sure "Buggy plug-in compatibility mode" is _NOT_ checked. If you change that setting, you will need to reload the project, too.

[Uqbar]

Originally Posted by Justin

Go to the plug-in "+" menu, go to Compatibility settings, make sure "Buggy plug-in compatibility mode" is _NOT_ checked. If you change that setting, you will need to reload the project, too.

No luck! It's unchecked...

Thanks for the fast answers and the help, thou!

It seems according to the UAD forum that several folks are having same issues on different DAWs

[HighVoltage]

Originally Posted by Uqbar

No luck! It's unchecked...

Thanks for the fast answers and the help, thou!

It seems according to the UAD forum that several folks are having same issues on different DAWs

I've only seen these reports after the latest UADx update. A same issue was from a Live user, but with a same 4 core cpu. So it might not be Reaper this time. Best thing would be if you could test it in another DAW. You can download a demo of Live11.

I guess there is no easy way to roll back to the previous ones given their online updater thingy....

[playtimer]

Originally Posted by HighVoltage

I've only seen these reports after the latest UADx update. A same issue was from a Live user, but with a same 4 core cpu. So it might not be Reaper this time. Best thing would be if you could test it in another DAW. You can download a demo of Live11.

I guess there is no easy way to roll back to the previous ones given their online updater thingy....

Definitely not Reaper's fault. It's the problem with latest UADx plugins update.

There's a thread on UAD forum with more users having the same issues in different DAWs and UA is aware of it.

Thread on UAD forums: https://uadforum.com/community/index...-update.61058/

I sincerely hope they will fix it soon.

[Uqbar]

Sure. I've already tested on Samplitude and the problem replicates exactly the same. So, yes, this is not a Reaper bug. Nevertheless, I really appreciate the devs efforts trying to solve this.