Dry guitar DI audible under distortion when using amp sims?

[jolup]

I have this problem where amp sims seem to have a clean sound under the distorted tone. I've tried many amp sims and they all had this issue, so I'm guessing the problem is with my setup.

It's not that noticeable but it can still be heard, especially if I boost the low mids.

I have direct monitoring turned off on my audio interface (it's a Behringer UMC22) so it's not caused by that.

The amp sim track: https://sndup.net/2ptk

The clean DI track: https://sndup.net/37pn

In this example I'm using one instance of Helix Native on each guitar track. every plugin is set to 100% wet.

Is the cheap audio interface be the problem, or could it be caused by something else?

Thanks!

[zeekat]

How does you Helix patch look like? Maybe there's a second path enabled with just dry input sent to the output.

[jolup]

Originally Posted by zeekat

How does you Helix patch look like? Maybe there's a second path enabled with just dry input sent to the output.

I checked and only one path is enabled. This also happend to me with other amp sims so I don't think the problem is specific to helix.

[ErBird]

Are you using a Tubescreamer or related pedal sim. They have some of the dry signal mixed into the output.

[vassaux]

Are you inserting the sim on the recorded track, or doing an aux or group send?

[ErBird]

Are you sure you're not falsely perceiving the dry signal as being there because you already know how it sounds?

Do you hear it here? Because I guarantee this is through an amp sim with no dry mix:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19kQ...ew?usp=sharing

[jolup]

Originally Posted by ErBird

Are you using a Tubescreamer or related pedal sim. They have some of the dry signal mixed into the output.

I did use a Tubescreamer sim but it still happenes when I disable it. Thanks for the suggestion though.

I'm starting to think this may be an issue with the DI tracks themselves, can anybody try to use my tracks in their own setup and see if they still get that sound? That would be a great help!

[jolup]

Originally Posted by vassaux

Are you inserting the sim on the recorded track, or doing an aux or group send?

I tried doing it both ways but it sounds the same.

Originally Posted by ErBird

Are you sure you're not falsely perceiving the dry signal as being there because you already know how it sounds?

Do you hear it here? Because I guarantee this is through an amp sim with no dry mix:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/19kQ...ew?usp=sharing

I can still hear it here, so maybe it's just my ears playing tricks on me?
I even tried taking a long break and then listen to it again but I still hear it. Did you not hear it when you listened to it for the first time?

[jolup]

I just tried using the same settings on a different DI track I found online and it finally didn't have that dry sound! So that means the audio interface is probably the cause of this problem because I tried with different cables and different guitars and it didn't help. Thanks for the help!

Are there any audio interfaces that you recommend?

[domzy]

Originally Posted by jolup

I just tried using the same settings on a different DI track I found online and it finally didn't have that dry sound! So that means the audio interface is probably the cause of this problem because I tried with different cables and different guitars and it didn't help. Thanks for the help!

Are there any audio interfaces that you recommend?

this doesn't make any sense - you are talking about applying fx to a file, aren't you? there is no way an interface could have any bearing on this, or cables or guitars for that matter.

[jolup]

Originally Posted by domzy

this doesn't make any sense - you are talking about applying fx to a file, aren't you? there is no way an interface could have any bearing on this, or cables or guitars for that matter.

I'm saying that I think something is wrong with the way the DIs are being recorded and how they sound, and this makes them audible in the amp sim.

That's the only explanation since I'm applying the same FX in the same way to a DI track from a different source and there's no problem, so the problem must be with my DIs specifically. Do you think it may be caused by something else?

[domzy]

Originally Posted by jolup

I'm saying that I think something is wrong with the way the DIs are being recorded and how they sound, and this makes them audible in the amp sim.

No, there is no way (that i know of) that the recording process could have any effect on the wet / dry balance of recorded sounds.
It must be a routing anomaly

[zeekat]

Originally Posted by jolup

The amp sim track: https://sndup.net/2ptk

That sounds like a pretty normal pick noise tbh.

[jolup]

Originally Posted by zeekat

That sounds like a pretty normal pick noise tbh.

The pick noise is fine and can be removed, I'm talking about the "rubbery" sound in the low mids. If I solo this area it sounds exactly like the clean track.

[kirk1701]

Originally Posted by jolup

The pick noise is fine and can be removed, I'm talking about the "rubbery" sound in the low mids. If I solo this area it sounds exactly like the clean track.

I know exactly what you're talking about. It's not what you think though.

Any DI, even going straight to an analog console, is going to sound different to a microphone on an amplifier. It's all down to the sound you want.

If you've mostly played guitar through an amp, you're going to find amp sims very "present." We usually stand back a fair ways from our amps. A sim is like putting your ear directly against the speaker, even with good cab irs.

I think if you eq judiciously in the area that's bothering you, then add a little reverb or delay, you'll be much happier.

Finally, do note that the majority of fellows here (including me) are saying the ugliness isn’t loud enough to be concerned about. You're hearing it because you're tuned into it. Once you start layering in the rest of the band, you won't hear it as badly.

[karbomusic]

I'm not disagreeing but placing a mic 2 inches from the cone is the same as placing your ear there so the same shock to the ears exists when close micing a cab vs a sim. To that end and considering speaker emulations, I have a UA OX Box where I can mic the amp and have a separate line that is the OX's speaker emulation, they are scarily close enough and functional

Meaning the differences aren't problems, but rather normal differences in the speaker/cab/mic I'm using vs the cab/mic sim in the OX. I still prefer real tube amps but part of that is because I own 10 of them and a couple are always in my room mic'd and ready to go - which is an entirely different thing than having a sim and considering an amp.

But it is true that hearing an amp 5 feet away pointing at your knees is completely different than a mic or sim which are an inch or two from the cone.

That said, if the interface has an instrument input/setting, which most do at this point, use that and ditch the DI as it isn't doing anything special here. To prove that point, a stompbox which has essentially the exact same "make a guitar happy" input circuitry as the hi-z/instrument/guitar input has and they work just fine. So much so, if it is a non-true-bypass pedal, it can function as the DI when it is bypassed. Lesson: you don't need the DI if you are using a separate DI - especially if a passive DI because you'll lose some signal via insertion loss.

As to the original question, it isn't possible for the dry to bleed through unless there is a routing issue or it's a tube screamer type design - where the TS allows frequencies lower than 700 Hz to bleed through mostly unaffected the lower they go.

Geek note: this is 'one' reason some don't like a tube screamer, meaning IMHO it gets way better if the amp is already breaking up just a little on it's own, so that you get the TS breakup coming from the pedal, then the clean that sneaks through gets broken up by the amp - I'm not even going to charge for that valuable piece of secret sauce info. It also works the other way, you might want that low end definition when the amp doesn't break it up. YMMV.

[ErBird]

Originally Posted by jolup

I'm talking about the "rubbery" sound in the low mids. If I solo this area it sounds exactly like the clean track.

I hear it too, but it must be an illusion.
Try cutting around 300 Hz, I think you're associating the low-mids with the low-mid-heavy DI track.

Another thing, how many parts do you have stacked in this dry track? Each part should be going to its own amp. I feel like at 5.7 seconds I hear 4 parts. That may be part of the problem.