v5.50rc13 - August 4 2017

[typewriter]

v5.50rc13 - August 4 2017
+ FX: do not auto-increase track channel count when loading FX chains that have multichannel FX but were saved from stereo tracks
+ ReaPlugs: improve ReaEQ/ReaXcomp analyzer accuracy [t=194328]
# Automation items: change behavior of automation items connecting on the right side

[EvilDragon]

Almost there... just that AI drag&drop from Media Explorer, and I can see it out there in the wide world!

[Sju]

Originally Posted by typewriter

v5.50rc13 - August 4 2017
+ FX: do not auto-increase track channel count when loading FX chains that have multichannel FX but were saved from stereo tracks

Interesting; I thought this was already fixed some time ago, and it's been working for me ever since. Well thank you anyway, this was really annoying and I had been hoping for a fix for some time back then

[Neutronic]

Originally Posted by typewriter

v5.50rc13 - August 4 2017
+ FX: do not auto-increase track channel count when loading FX chains that have multichannel FX but were saved from stereo tracks

Thanks for this one! Justin and Schwa, if you are still in the FX-related-nitpicks-fixing mood would you mind checking this buglet confirmed by many people? Just making sure you are aware of its existence. Thanks!

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by Neutronic

Thanks for this one! Justin and Schwa, if you are still in the FX-related-nitpicks-fixing mood would you mind checking this buglet confirmed by many people? Just making sure you are aware of its existence. Thanks!

Yes, this is fairly annoying with resizeable plugins. It's a regression from v5.28 or something.

[Gianfini]

Originally Posted by typewriter

v5.50rc13 - August 4 2017
+ FX: do not auto-increase track channel count when loading FX chains that have multichannel FX but were saved from stereo tracks

yesssssssss!!!!

[Robert Randolph]

• Turn on "Automation items connect to underlying envelope on right side".
• Create an AI
• Adjust the right most point in the AI

The connection to the right side is incorrect. If you change the right-most point to any shape except linear, then it connects correctly.

Expected behaviour should be obvious.

--------

After screencapping that, I hit undo 5 times and now I have this on my screen:



No clue what this is.

The automation properties dialog is totally empty for it.



No matter how far I undo... it won't go away.

Here is the project with undo history. https://www.dropbox.com/s/78qqcid9a7...irdAI.RPP?dl=0 I have no idea if/how this will help.

It's very confusing!

[Robert Randolph]

First glue is showing the expected behaviour, second glue attempt is showing the erroneous behaviour.

• Turn on "Automation items connect to underlying envelope on right side" or "Automation items connect to underlying envelope on both sides".
• Create an AI
• Adjust the right most point in the AI
• Glue the AI

If the right-most point is moved, then when gluing an extra point is added outside the AI to the right.

This does happen on the left, or on either side when the no connection setting is selected.

[Robert Randolph]

And here's how you make points magically appear on the Left of an AI

• Turn on "Automation items connect to underlying envelope on both sides".
• Create an AI
• Create a bunch of points in the AI
• Create a pooled copy of the AI that's longer than the original
• Move the right most point, inside the original length, in the new pooled copy
• Glue the pooled copy

The pooled copy will have a new envelope point outside the AI on the left side.

If you glue the original then you end up with a new envelope point outside the AI on the right side.

Expected behaviour: No points created outside the envelope when gluing.

[Robert Randolph]

• Turn on "Automation items connect to underlying envelope on both sides".
• Create an AI
• Move the leftmost point forward in time
• Move rightmost point backward in time
• Adjust the rightmost point and observe the left-side connection.

With a default AI and 2 points, the rightmost point controls where the left side of the envelope connects unless there's a point at the very beginning of the AI.

It seems that the AI's looping behaviour is interfering with the left-side connection. edit: if you turn off loop then it works as expected.

Expected behaviour: The left side envelope always connects, using the shape of the nearest envelope point, directly to the leftmost point in the AI

[Robert Randolph]

Minor nitpick: When gluing AI's, '-glued' isn't added to the name of the AI.

It is added for all other gluable items.

[Robert Randolph]

I demonstrate 2 scenarios with the option "Trim content behind automation items when editing" on and off:


Scenario #1

• Create an AI
• Create a new AI that overlaps previous automation item.

Scenario #2

• Create an AI
• Create a pooled copy AI that overlaps previous automation item.

When "Trim content behind automation items when editing" is on, the 'trim' behaviour only seems to work for creating pooled copies. Unpooled copies do not seem to trigger the trim behaviour when creating them.

Moving or edge editing pooled or unpooled copies does work correctly with trim.

[EvilDragon]

Well maybe RC status was a bit early, eh?

[Robert Randolph]

This happens with touch/wrote/latch modes if automation is written at the right side of the envelope. Latch mode makes it more obvious.

• Turn on "Automation items connect to underlying envelope on right side" or "Automation items connect to underlying envelope on both sides".
• Create an AI
• Begin playback inside the AI
• Adjust the automated parameter so there is a change occurring at the right side boundary
• Allow playback to continue past the right boundary of then AI

A point is left behind, or created (I cant tell) at the end of the AI, so the resulting shape is not what was displayed when writing the envelope.

Edit:

This also happens on the left side of the envelope with "Automation items connect to underlying envelope on both sides" turned on.

• Turn on "Automation items connect to underlying envelope on both sides".
• Create an AI
• Begin playback to the left of the AI
• Adjust the automated parameter so there is a change occurring at the left side boundary
• Allow playback to continue past the left boundary of then AI

[Robert Randolph]

This is a bit of a feature request, but it seems to also be a notable oversight:

Current when you have an envelope shown in the media lane, there is no way to create new AIs.

A mouse modifier for the track context might be useful, or at least a right-click menu item.

[Robert Randolph]

With the envelope in the media lane, "Envelope: Insert automation item" does not work if you use a mouse modifier with 'select time'.

• Open an envelope
• Move envelope to media lane
• Select time using a mouse modifier set to "Select Time"
• Use the action "Envelope: Insert automation item"

My track-context left drag is set to "Select time", my arrange-context right drag is set to "Marquee select items and time"

If I create a time selection with "Select time", then "Envelope: Insert automation item" does not work.

If I create a time selection with "Marquee select items and time", then "Envelope: Insert automation item" works.

If working in the envelope lane, either selection method works. This is only an issue when the envelope is shown in the media lane.

Expected behaviour:

Automation Items can be inserted in any time selection.

[Robert Randolph]

• Turn on "Trim content behind automation items when editing" on.
• Create an AI (1)
• Create another AI to the right of the first AI
• Duplicate the first AI

Expected behaviour:

The duplicated behaviour is trims the pre-existing item.

Simply moving the new item back and forth to the same place demonstrates the expected result.

[Justin]

Originally Posted by Sju

Interesting; I thought this was already fixed some time ago, and it's been working for me ever since. Well thank you anyway, this was really annoying and I had been hoping for a fix for some time back then

It was previously fixed when adding chains from the FX browser, but not via the quick-add menu or the "add chain..." menu item

[Robert Randolph]

Original tempo is 100bpm. There is a tempo marker change to 200bpm at the edit cursor.

• Insert a tempo marker
• Create an AI that begins before the tempo marker and ends after it. (larger distance makes for more obvious results)
• Stretch the right side of the AI.

The resulting length of the underlying AI is not where the cursor ended the stretch operation.

It seems to be a multiple of the tempo change and the distance you stretched. You can see that despite ending the stretch on the grid, the resulting AI length is not at a grid line (despite the tempo change being a multiple of the original tempo!)

Similar erroneous behaviour if you stretch right.

Expected behaviour:

Stretching an AI results in the length ending where the stretch operation ended.

[mccrabney]

i will be there at release date to complain about AIs not meeting the feature request
with the best intentions. this is great, but it's not automation items.

[Robert Randolph]

Originally Posted by mccrabney

i will be there at release date to complain about AIs not meeting the feature request
with the best intentions. this is great, but it's not automation items.

You can use the current automation items to easily modulate multiple parameters across tracks all over the project.

I wrote a blog post about a similar subject, you can easily just apply automation envelopes to this since both reacontrolmidi and faders have envelopes that you can put automation items on: http://admiralbumblebee.com/music/20...th-faders.html

There's also a method using a signal generator and audio-sidechain that works nicely too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6aV_Xh_vS_Q

Either way, you're still capable of using automation items to control anythings that you want all around the project, and one track can easily contain 100s of automation items each controlling 100s of groups of parameters if you want.

[EvilDragon]

Originally Posted by mccrabney

i will be there at release date to complain about AIs not meeting the feature request
with the best intentions. this is great, but it's not automation items.

You can't always get what you want, as the Stones said. Also this is not the first time a feature request didn't take the exact shape as proposed - so it's probably going to "live with it" category. This implementation is indeed useful in many, many ways, previously unavailable with just envelopes. There's lots to like. Surely, you can use them as is?

[DANIELE]

Originally Posted by mccrabney

i will be there at release date to complain about AIs not meeting the feature request
with the best intentions. this is great, but it's not automation items.

Just to ask, what would you like/expect from an automation item?

[mccrabney]

automation items should have the capability to end and disable the envelope when the AI bounds ends, as it does in other daws. that is the core of the FR as far as i was concerned at the beginning of this cycle, and as far as I'm concerned now. we've been over this and over this, see the automation items discussion thread.

and as I've said half a dozen times, yes i will use these excellent envelope editing containers even though they appear to leak, but they are not AIs as requested by many of us in that thread.

[EvilDragon]

I think Reaper devs don't like the non-deterministic nature of that request.

[mccrabney]

that was addressed with a suggestion to look to most recent envelope point on the track and use that at playback,
thereby retaining deterministic playback. this is how it's done elsewhere.

it's all in the automation item discussion thread and has been during the months of this pre release. the only
reason i haven't given up months ago is because A, lots of other testers speak up in agreement and B, i get
occasional flickers of interest from schwa. and C, of course, it's important to the function in question.

i've been using REAPER since 07 and on these forums in some way or another so i don't have any real misgivings
about not having this feature pinned down the exact way i want, but i also know that nothing is likely to happen
if i stop talking about it.

edited to be more readable on normal sized screens due to large gifs in thread

[Ivannn Bennnettt]

I'm sorry but would it be better use works automation how it was done in Reason? I mean when we create item one main line get passive.

[Robert Randolph]

Originally Posted by mccrabney

automation items should have the capability to end and disable the envelope when the AI bounds ends, as it does in other daws. that is the core of the FR as far as i was concerned at the beginning of this cycle, and as far as I'm concerned now. we've been over this and over this, see the automation items discussion thread.

and as I've said half a dozen times, yes i will use these excellent envelope editing containers even though they appear to leak, but they are not AIs as requested by many of us in that thread.

I've read your posts in the AI pre-release thread, and it seems like what you want is possible.



I have 2 LFOd items, midi CC linked to automation.

The midi CC works fine at the correct values between AIs and continues to work after the AI. No ramps, no connections. The base value is settable via the envelope or parameter modulation window.

If you'd like to continue this via the AI pre-release thread then I'd be more than happy to continue the discussion there.

[hopi]

that is almost DAW Porn

[mccrabney]

Originally Posted by Robert Randolph

If you'd like to continue this via the AI pre-release thread then I'd be more than happy to continue the discussion there.

thanks, and thanks for the tip. in my case, i'm looking to use incoming CCs from a controller, not recorded CCs as you used in your example. AFAIKT it doesn't work, envelopes necessarily override learned CCs.

i agree that that thread would be a better place to continue this discussion so this'll be my last post here on the subject.

[musicbynumbers]

+ FX: do not auto-increase track channel count when loading FX chains that have multichannel FX but were saved from stereo tracks

Just wondering if we could extend this?

Could we make it so multi channel wav items that you have non destructively turned into mono or stereo items don't switch tracks to multichannel if you drag them around.

This would help speed up a lot of projects I have thanks!

[PitchSlap]

Originally Posted by typewriter

v5.50rc13 - August 4 2017
+ FX: do not auto-increase track channel count when loading FX chains that have multichannel FX but were saved from stereo tracks

Thanks a lot for this fix, I use FX chains a lot and this was really annoying.