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Old 10-23-2020, 02:45 PM   #1
DeadRiff
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Default Render file sounding different from playback within Reaper

I've searched the forums and have only found the opposite issue in which the rendered file sounds worse.

I think the best way I can describe it is that the rendered file sounds like it has a much broader/louder stereo field. Maybe it's just my hard panned guitars that are causing the problem, but I have to turn their faders way down inside of Reaper just to get them to not overpower the whole mix. I'm not sure if it's them specifically or if there's an issue in the rendering process.

I'm listening on the my mixing monitors by playing the file through VLC media player, so it's not that it's a different acoustic environment or sound system. And it's not that I have the mono button pressed on the master or something as I'll go back and fourth between playback in Reaper and playing the newly rendered file. They're just completely different.

I'm not mixing any differently than I do in Studio One and I've never had this problem there. Is there a setting in Reaper that might be causing this? I talked with someone else about it and they said it could be a corrupted install.

I appreciate any help
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Old 10-23-2020, 08:12 PM   #2
valy
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Do you have anything in the Monitor FX (click the button in the upper right)?
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:25 PM   #3
DeadRiff
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Do you have anything in the Monitor FX (click the button in the upper right)?
Thanks for replying, was out of town otherwise I would have answered sooner. But no, I don't have anything in the monitor fx
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Old 10-27-2020, 02:34 AM   #4
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Can you show a screenshot of your render page?
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Old 10-27-2020, 03:22 AM   #5
Stella645
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Originally Posted by DeadRiff View Post

I'm listening on the my mixing monitors by playing the file through VLC media player, so it's not that it's a different acoustic environment or sound system.
Assuming you use ASIO in Reaper then VLC through Windows audio pretty much is a different sound system.

Maybe you have some stereo enhancement turned on in your Windows audio settings?
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Old 10-27-2020, 04:19 AM   #6
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Can you show a screenshot of your render page?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/j1cd76g5ye...tings.jpg?dl=0

I don't have time this morning to tweak the screenshots to fit the upload limits, so here's a link to a dropbox file to view. It has the rendering settings, playback settings, and the window that pops up when you want to render a file. Let me know if there are any other settings we need to look at
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Old 10-27-2020, 04:21 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Stella645 View Post
Assuming you use ASIO in Reaper then VLC through Windows audio pretty much is a different sound system.

Maybe you have some stereo enhancement turned on in your Windows audio settings?
No stereo enhancements. I made sure to turn them all off when I first got my interface
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Old 10-27-2020, 04:29 AM   #8
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First thing you should do is to import the file back into the same project. if you flip between the stereo mix and live playback is it sounding different in Reaper itself?
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Old 10-27-2020, 04:35 AM   #9
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Yeah that's a good idea, haven't thought of that. I'll have to try that when I get off work
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Old 10-27-2020, 06:42 AM   #10
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Seems like it could have something to do with pan law, although I don't know how you could be hearing it one way in REAPER and rendering it using different pan law settings
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Old 11-06-2020, 12:58 PM   #11
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First thing you should do is to import the file back into the same project. if you flip between the stereo mix and live playback is it sounding different in Reaper itself?
I've been really busy lately with work, so I haven't even had time to set foot into my studio. The rendered file within Reaper does sound completely different, like it does when playing through VLC media player. I also tried inverting the phase and there's a lot I can still hear
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Old 11-06-2020, 02:35 PM   #12
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What you could try, is to check the option 'Add rendered items to new tracks in project' in the Render dialog, so you can be sure that the render is in sync with the project (should be at least). When inverting the rendered track, as you did before, the signal should null. If not, try to change the volume of the rendered track an see, whether it nulls at some point.

What also could be of interest is the signal routing inside and outside Reaper. Does the Reaper output go to the same HW output as that of the VLC-Player? Does the output of the rendered track additionally go to another HW output than Reapers master?

Some other things:
Your render with 96kHz/24 bits. Are the soundfiles in the project recorded with the same values or do they need to be re-rendered?

Are you sure that the playrate of your project is set exactly to 1?


Just thinking of a few scenarios that could be the culprit.

-Data
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Last edited by Mr. Data; 11-06-2020 at 03:01 PM.
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Old 11-07-2020, 07:49 AM   #13
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Does rendering and then dragging the file back into the project not do the same thing? At first it actually wasn't lined up so it was just causing a delay effect but I made sure to drag it all the way to the beginning and it seemed to be lined up. I'll try that though, no harm in double checking.

Something I did that may be the culprit... Not sure if this was even a good idea or not, but it looks like I may have gotten lazy and created a send of the chorus vocals to the guitars because they were having trouble staying over them. Could that be creating the problem? The main issue to my ears is that the guitars don't sound as loud, but I figure if the send is what's causing the issue then it would transfer over to the render, right?

Now that I think about it, I may have my interface set up at 48 kHz because it was having issue transitioning from Studio One where S1 wouldn't relinquish control (one of the reasons why I switched back to Reaper)

As far as playrate, unless it's not 1 by default it should still be set to 1

What is HW output? Can't find an answer on google search
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Old 11-07-2020, 12:51 PM   #14
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Well, HW output meant hardware output (sorry), the output that goes from Reaper to your soundcard. You can find it under 'Options > Preferences > Audio > Devices' as well as the hardware input.

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Something I did that may be the culprit... Not sure if this was even a good idea or not, but it looks like I may have gotten lazy and created a send of the chorus vocals to the guitars because they were having trouble staying over them. Could that be creating the problem?
Absolutely, because the chorus' modulation is done by an LFO, i. e. a cycling delay time shift of, e.g. between 10 and 25 ms or so back an forth. It is more than likely that the modulation of the rendered project and the modulation when playing back are not in sync, which means, if you start the rendering process the delay time of the chorus might start at 15 ms and gets longer while, if you insert the rendered file (even if synced precisely) the modulation of chorus, when playback starts, is, say, 12 ms and goes down to 10 ms first before getting longer again, at least the chorussed signal can't obviously nulled out.

For testing, try to take out the chorus signal completely out of the mix, render that, put the rendered file synced into your project again, still having the chorus switched off, and see, what happens with the sound if you invert the 'rendered file' track.

HTH

-Data
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Last edited by Mr. Data; 11-07-2020 at 01:06 PM.
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Old 11-07-2020, 07:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Data View Post
Well, HW output meant hardware output (sorry), the output that goes from Reaper to your soundcard. You can find it under 'Options > Preferences > Audio > Devices' as well as the hardware input.



Absolutely, because the chorus' modulation is done by an LFO, i. e. a cycling delay time shift of, e.g. between 10 and 25 ms or so back an forth. It is more than likely that the modulation of the rendered project and the modulation when playing back are not in sync, which means, if you start the rendering process the delay time of the chorus might start at 15 ms and gets longer while, if you insert the rendered file (even if synced precisely) the modulation of chorus, when playback starts, is, say, 12 ms and goes down to 10 ms first before getting longer again, at least the chorussed signal can't obviously nulled out.

For testing, try to take out the chorus signal completely out of the mix, render that, put the rendered file synced into your project again, still having the chorus switched off, and see, what happens with the sound if you invert the 'rendered file' track.

HTH

-Data
My bad... not chorus as an effect, the vocal track for the chorus. I split the tracks and process the verses and choruses differently just because it's easier to me than using automation
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Old 11-07-2020, 10:20 PM   #16
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Eerm, yeah.
And did it solve the problem?

-Data
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Old 11-08-2020, 06:52 PM   #17
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No...? There's no chorus to remove, I meant "chorus" as in the section of the song, not the modulation effect. The "hook" or "refrain"
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Old 11-08-2020, 11:33 PM   #18
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Load a commercial .mp3 or .wav into a blank project in REAPER, then export it without changing anything. Does it sound fucked up compared to the original, unrendered file?
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