Old 12-03-2020, 10:26 AM   #1
phoo
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Default Pops and Clicks, Transients Fix Needed

What are some good ways to remove pops and clicks on transients in a track that has them throughout in the original track? They are there because of a faulty recording interface - a hardware issue, not from over recording.

Pretty sure the culprit is faulty filtering in the hardware allowing highs above the nyquist frequency to slip in, and very quick transients in the live source from the mics are high enough to cause issues, level independent.

I'm needing to fix this one track. (The hardware interface is being replaced ASAP.)

Reaper's Transient Controller and Transient Killer won't touch them, unfortunately.

EQ can get rid of them, but the only way is to roll off ALL highs above 2K. This is not acceptable.

These very audible clicks do NOT stick up as spikes. They are little bursts of noise just a few samples long, just a few msecs or less, right at the attack. Because it's pure noise the frequency of each little burst is a wide range, random frequencies, making notch filtering a no go as well. This is also why I suspect a nyquist issue.

The track has already been declicked (automatic pop removal) in Abode Audition, and this got rid of a most of them, but not all.

I've tried a few transient controller plug-ins, but none are doing much, probably for the same reason Reaper's transient plug-ins aren't doing much.

I feel like the only way to solve the issue is to externally edit the track and tackle each place individually - using the manual pop remover in Adobe Audition. This WILL work, but it's a lot of work as this is an overhead drums track and pretty much every snare, tom and kick attack is corrupted. Every individual drum track has these, but I can work around the issue with filtering if the overhead track is clean.

THANKS!!
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Old 12-03-2020, 10:48 AM   #2
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Oh heck. I suppose drum replacement is out of the question? If you had clean sounds for the drums you could use their transients to duck the overheads (for a tiny speck of time each hit).
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Old 12-03-2020, 11:19 AM   #3
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Yeah, replacement, as in rerecording is out, as it's a totally improvised drum part used as the basis for a song. (similar to something Ginger Baker's Airforce might do)

Individual drum track replacement is not totally out of the question, as in replacing whole individual tracks, one drum hit at a time with rerecorded drums used as samples. This would be a pain, but I've done it a few times in the past for other reasons. This isn't out of the question.

The existing individual tracks can't be used for ducking the overheads since they are actually MUCH worse than the overheads unfortunately. I'm hoping to use the overheads as the attacks since it's the much cleaner of the bunch.

If this was typical pop song I'd just redo the whole thing.
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Old 12-03-2020, 11:25 AM   #4
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Trigger 2?
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Old 12-03-2020, 11:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phoo View Post
Individual drum track replacement is not totally out of the question, as in replacing whole individual tracks, one drum hit at a time with rerecorded drums used as samples. This would be a pain, but I've done it a few times in the past for other reasons. This isn't out of the question.
Yep, sorry, that's what I meant, using (e.g.) Stillwells JS: Audio To MIDI Drum Trigger, and your drum sampler of choice. Course, if the drum part is very dynamic, fast or the separation isn't great, this can take a fair bit of time to set up. But it's probably quicker / better than replacing individual hits by hand. You sometimes have to to "manually gate" drum tracks via the take envelopes to get this to work well. You can even record the triggered midi at lower playrate which can sometimes help with getting rapid hits to fire right.

Anyhoo, once you've done that (if you decide to go that way) you could send all the (new) drums to another track (not routed to the mix), bump up their attacks w/ a transient tool and use that signal to duck the clicky transients out of the overheads.

Or use the original drums to drive the ducker - that's probably better, they're going to be lined up spot on (or at least a constant offset).
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Old 12-03-2020, 11:52 AM   #6
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A good method is using the spectral edit in Reaper. You can create zones for the offensive and plosive clicks and pop. Might take some time but it´s quite efficient.
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Old 12-03-2020, 11:52 AM   #7
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If these bursts of noise show up when you zoom in close to the samples, you could try to enable the Volume Take Envelope and then (manually) go through and "paint" them away by dragging down the volume over just those few samples. There are several actions available that you can bind to mouse keys and mouse drag to speed up this process.

"Alt+right drag: Marquee select items and time", with or without shift, and "Move envelope segment" (here assigned to Shift+Ctr+left drag on envelope segment) are the two ones I use the most. Once you get the hang of it, you can fix these types of things incredibly fast.
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Old 12-03-2020, 11:58 AM   #8
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Slew rate limiter
By default, it’s something like a run of the mill opamp. Slow it down until those clicks are less objectionable.
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Old 12-03-2020, 12:46 PM   #9
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^^^ Oooh I like this. OP do give it a go.
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Old 12-15-2020, 12:51 PM   #10
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Sorry for the lack of response. For some reason the forum decided to note sent notifications of responses even though I'm subscribed, and it had sent a couple already. (not the first time)

I ended up replacing every hit, and a few replayed phrases. It's close to the original, even in feel, as I tried to recreate the dynamics as best as possible. Yes, this was the pain I expected it would be.

While the issue at hand has been rectified, there are other old projects with similar issues. It's not a dead subject by any stretch. There's always room for more crappy from the get-go tracks that need resurrecting.

Stillwell's Audio to MIDI Drum Trigger is a trick that could go a long ways to fixing some tracks. I'm exploring that as solution for some older tracks, and even some that just sound bad or need a different sound.

Most of the clicks are indeed visible. I've been fixing them manually by editing them out in the track/timeline. This works well, and it OK for a few pops, but for tracks recorded bad in the first place with many pops across the board, at some point it's easier to drop in samples than edit each place individually. This is a great trick.

I'm REALLY intrigued by the Slew Rate Limiter. I've made that JSFX, and have dropped it into some tracks, but I can't hear that it's changing anything. It's either not working (my instantiation) or it's too subtle, or maybe it's not attacking the issue.

ashcat_it, what "should" it sound like, what exactly do the parameters do, and what parameters (in the code) might need adjusting to make it more extreme in what it does? I assume the effect will be very subtle, and should not actually be audible. I'm not hearing it affect the clips though. I'm new to JSFX, but not coding.

Thanks everyone for the suggestions and discussions.

UPDATE: I've ordered a be interface. I've recorded a few tracks over the last few weeks, including the replacement drums, and have found these artifacts in many unexpected places. I narrowed it down to some specific channels in the current interface. As a temporary workaround I switched to using an external 8-channel ADAT preamp instead of the 8 native channels in the interface. This avoided the issue completely, but fixes nothing, just avoids it. Down side is that the new interface is on backorder until January. At least there are 8 channels working. (it's been a while since needing more than that at once, but I hate not having the option)
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Old 12-15-2020, 01:54 PM   #11
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Well, it shouldn't really sound like anything except a real subtle rounding off of super fast transients. It is admittedly a bit weird since it talks in "volts" and stuff. There's only two sliders that you can move, though. To make it more extreme, turn the first one up or the last one down or both. Eventually you'll start to hear the high frequencies distort while getting quieter, but at that point, you've probably gone too far. I'm not sure it will completely kill a click, but it should knock it down some anyway.
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Old 12-15-2020, 03:57 PM   #12
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Thanks.

I'm still not hearing any changes when using the Slew Rate Limiter. That said, it's possible that my deafness is preventing me from hearing the changes. I have almost no hearing above 8-9K, which of course is a major issue for someone mixing audio.

Here's a couple of small examples (zips), with samples of the problem.

One has major crackle, and obvious spikes all over. It's just a short clip of the original wave file. It was one of the first tracks done that showed the issue in a VERY major way. As a result of this eye and ear opening experience, I've been under recording as a general rule, and padding the mics, but none of that had much effect. This drum part was totally unusable, as will be obvious. Yes, it is likely that this track was overrecorded.

The second is as sample of the overheads for the project this thread was started for. The pops are less, but still quite evident. It's been recorded at a much lower level, mics had a 10db pad. Less obnoxious, but still an issue. All drum tracks of this take had about the same amount of spikes, and some were almost as bad as the first example.

https://phootoons.com/files/04-Overh..._1743_pops.zip
https://phootoons.com/files/zoom_clicks_in_audio.zip
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Old 12-15-2020, 06:40 PM   #13
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Did some experimenting, and got great results. Of course, what to do with the results is debatable, how to use what I found in other words.

  1. Duplicate the offending track (have two tracks)
  2. Flip the phase on one of the tracks
  3. Verify that the tracks cancel each other during playback (no sound)
  4. Add the Slew Rate Limiter to one track
  5. Add some sort of metering so the output can be seen visually
  6. Play the project, listen and watch.
  7. The output will be what the Slew Rate Limiter changes, the difference
  8. Change the effect settings, sliders, notice the differing output
  9. Experiment with other effects to see and hear what they do


When doing this the only output heard is the pops and clicks themselves, or nothing, and those audible parts are what the Slew Rate limiter has removed in one of the tracks. Yes, this is a very subtle change, with the sound of the drums themselves masking any changes when listening to just that track alone.

The fact is, what I'm hearing in this experiment is a pretty significant change. This is good. It's not good enough to be a single fix-all, but it does get rid of a lot.

Furthermore, based on this, it's likely that the improvements CAN be heard when the tracks are back in the full mix. Why would I say that? One reason is that these types of issues often can't be heard until the tracks are mixed, resulting in frequency masking. They aren't hidden by masking, they stick through everything. It's the same reason a great solo snare drum (or ever other instruments) can sound like pure crap when in the mix.

Also, takes my deafness out of the equation, since I can't hear any changes when the tracks are soloed, but I can sure see the meters and other visual effects, spectrographs.
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