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Old 12-04-2017, 01:22 AM   #1
Ansio
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Default Playing midi over loop causes hanging notes with some instruments

When I play or record my midi keyboard over a loop I sometimes get hanging notes when playing over the loop end point. Of the plugins I have this seems to only happen with U-he synths. It doesn't happen with other daws. I assume it's a Reaper bug because the note-off message is missing but I'll report to U-he if you think it's on their end.

Reproducing this is difficult but I was able to do it by looping one beat and playing midi over it. Of course in real situations the loop would be several bars long, but this makes it easier to go over the end point many times.

I simultaneously recorded the same midi for 4 tracks with same settings but different plugins (U-he Zebra, freeware Obxd, Reasamplomatic5000 and an empty track). I recorded new takes but it also happens when not recording and just playing over looped playback. I placed a midi monitor in the first slot of each track.

The next midi take following the hanging note usually has a tiny note in the beginning as shown in the picture. This happens on all 4 tracks.

What's more interesting is that Reaper seems to send the note off to all other tracks except the U-he one as shown in the second picture. Remember the midi monitor is before the instruments. I repeated this many times and the result is always the same. Could this have something to do with U-he plugins having a 16 sample latency?

Windows 10, Reaper 5.62 both 64 and 32 bit. Happens both with my M-audio KeyRig 49 and Novation Launchpad S. I couldn't reproduce this using the virtual midi keyboard.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg midiloop.JPG (48.1 KB, 156 views)
File Type: jpg monitor.jpg (63.6 KB, 162 views)
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:24 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ansio View Post
Could this have something to do with U-he plugins having a 16 sample latency?
This is possible. Did you try disabling this latency in Preferences panel of u-he plugins?
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:27 AM   #3
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This is possible. Did you try disabling this latency in Preferences panel of u-he plugins?
I did, but it automatically resets it back to 16. Is there a Reaper option that fixes this?
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:43 AM   #4
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Hmmm, not sure. The problem with loops/ time selections is that you can randomly end up with a non-integer count of samples depending on project sample rate and current tempo, and this can throw some plugins off.

Perhaps you can try with "Snap to project sample rate" option in Snap/Grid settings.
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:51 AM   #5
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Snapping to project sample rate had no effect to the U-he latency reset or hanging notes.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:02 AM   #6
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Then nothing that can be done Reaper-side then, AFAIK... This is down to how the plugin processes MIDI events, and u-he's block processing might skip stuff in that 16 sample buffer during looping (it's a pretty complex thing)... time to contact u-he support.

Last edited by EvilDragon; 12-04-2017 at 02:09 AM.
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:25 AM   #7
Ansio
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
This is down to how the plugin processes MIDI events, and u-he's block processing might skip stuff in that 16 sample buffer during looping (it's a pretty complex thing)... time to contact u-he support.
Can it be about how the plugin processes MIDI if Reaper doesn't send a note off message?
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Old 12-04-2017, 03:02 AM   #8
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Hm, quite possible, yeah. If there's no note off sent, how would the plugin shut off the note.
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Old 12-09-2017, 06:20 AM   #9
Ansio
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I managed to reproduce the same behavior with IL Harmor. Turning on the synths compressor, which introduces latency, makes it hang on the same notes as U-he plugins when recording simultaneously and turning the compressor off makes it not hang.

So this seems to be about the latency. Shame that I can't figure out a way to reliably reproduce this.
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Old 12-11-2017, 01:51 PM   #10
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could be related to this
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=200259
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Old 12-13-2017, 12:26 PM   #11
dupont
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I just post a similar thread about this issue with UHE plugins.
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Old 08-24-2021, 10:49 AM   #12
Ansio
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This still happens in 6.34 windows 10 64 bit.

I did some tests (sorry if the pictures take too much space!). I can reproduce this from time to time using a very short loop length and loop recording notes fast with an usb midi keyboard while monitoring a u-he synth like Zebra (the free Zebralette works too) that introduces latency. The same thing happens occasionally with regular length loops. "Preserve pdc delayed monitoring..." doesn't seem to have an effect.

When the stuck note happens Reaper seems to create a zero-length midi note at the start of a midi item. This may happen if the note is released exactly at the end of loop, but I'm not sure. This also happens with VSTi that don't introduce latency, but the note off is sent and shows in the midi monitor.



In the midi monitor, there is no note-off before the next note. This happens only during live playback (recording or monitoring), playing back the recorded midi works ok.



Here are the events for recorded midi before and after the loop change.

before


After
Attached Images
File Type: jpg midistream.jpg (62.9 KB, 114 views)
File Type: jpg reaperloopmidibug_editor.jpg (63.1 KB, 118 views)
File Type: jpg reaperloopmidibug_eventsBefore.jpg (59.2 KB, 110 views)
File Type: jpg reaperloopmidibug_eventsAfter.jpg (63.9 KB, 127 views)
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