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08-09-2018, 08:41 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 325
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Latest prereleases discussion
Hi there guys. I wanted to make this thread so we can discuss the latest releases.
So.. i dont know u guys but I feel like all the new features focus on more workarounding and programming/custom actions, correct me if im wrong, I mean... There is a lot of FRs but the devs are focusing on another things,or maybe they are preparing soil for 6.0.. I mean wtf was that diagram view, what's the point on that?
Thanks for your patience.
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08-09-2018, 08:52 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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Discussion of prereleases should be in the prerelease forum, FYI.
- Not sure what you mean by workarounds.
- Scripting and custom actions, absolutely, and with good reason - the time it would take for Cockos to implement feature X is almost always going to be much greater than the time it would take them to implement a few extra functions that would make feature X doable with a script.
Every script and extension we have would, in a perfect world, be implemented natively by Reaper, but Reaper only has two people working on it. By comparison there are a couple of dozen people actively writing scripts.
When they expand the script API, think of it as "making more of Reaper open-source". The core of the program will forever be hidden, but they're giving us safe ways to dig deeper into it.
- 6.0... it wouldn't surprise me, but there's been zero word so far.
- The wiring diagram view is an FR that's been around for probably ten years. A lot of people struggle with I/O pins, the routing matrix, etc, even though what they're doing is just like a patch bay. Having a picture of literal patch cables simplifies the process.
- Reaper has always been, will presumably continue to be, whatever Justin and Schwa feel like doing with it. We used to have an actual FR tracker with voting and stuff, but it was closed because (IIRC) they didn't want to give the impression that more votes = a commitment to doing it. They work on what interests them at the time - I believe the Notation Editor was a pet project of Schwa's to start with.
Last edited by Lokasenna; 08-09-2018 at 08:59 AM.
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08-09-2018, 09:31 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna
Discussion of prereleases should be in the prerelease forum, FYI.
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Oh, ok, how do I move the thread?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna
- Not sure what you mean by workarounds.
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Making a lot of effort to simple stuff, for example: I made a custom action to create a folder track and set the selected tracks as children, making the parent be 0 pan law, Its easy once you set up, but really difficult for the new user.
About scripting, you are right, It would be a lot of work for only 2 people, thanks we have an active community
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna
- The wiring diagram view is an FR that's been around for probably ten years. A lot of people struggle with I/O pins, the routing matrix, etc, even though what they're doing is just like a patch bay. Having a picture of literal patch cables simplifies the process.
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Okay that's a good way to make routing be easier to understand.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna
- Reaper has always been, will presumably continue to be, whatever Justin and Schwa feel like doing with it. We used to have an actual FR tracker with voting and stuff, but it was closed because (IIRC) they didn't want to give the impression that more votes = a commitment to doing it. They work on what interests them at the time - I believe the Notation Editor was a pet project of Schwa's to start with.
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That's clarifying. They would have to charge a lot more for the license if they were doing that by community demand.
On the other hand, Studio One has some FRs since 2016 and have not been implemented yet lol.
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08-09-2018, 09:38 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delucci
Oh, ok, how do I move the thread?
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I think you have to wait for one of the mods to do it.
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Making a lot of effort to simple stuff, for example: I made a custom action to create a folder track and set the selected tracks as children, making the parent be 0 pan law, Its easy once you set up, but really difficult for the new user.
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1. How many new users need/want to do that? I'll be honest, this is the first time I've ever heard of someone setting a pan law to zero.
2. Is that something you can do easily in other DAWs?
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08-09-2018, 09:52 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna
1. How many new users need/want to do that? I'll be honest, this is the first time I've ever heard of someone setting a pan law to zero.
2. Is that something you can do easily in other DAWs?
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That has been discussed here, I dont remember when.. Its about making Folders and, If the pan law is the same as the project (I use -3dB), and I'm using a lot of folders, my dB will keep dropping.
example: Guitar L goes into Guitar Stereo -> -3db
Guitar Stereo goes into Guitar Bus -> -3db
Guitar Bus goes into Master Bus -> -3db
In other Daws you call that a simple "Bus/Fx track or Folder track"
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08-09-2018, 09:57 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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Oh wait; I forgot that Reaper's pan law defaults to 0, so it's never an issue for me.
Do other DAWs automatically adjust the pan law when you make a folder?
Regardless, IMO making a custom action for that isn't asking too much. What we need is a better way to share custom actions - if ReaPack supported them, for instance - rather than having to use the Stash.
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08-09-2018, 10:01 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna
Oh wait; I forgot that Reaper's pan law defaults to 0, so it's never an issue for me.
Do other DAWs automatically adjust the pan law when you make a folder?
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Yes, also I made a bit more to make the new folder be the same color as the track I set as children, I guess in that kind of stuff, Reaper wins, you can customize almost everything, its upon the user knowing how and what they want.
The hard part is knowing that some actions exist and link all together.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna
Regardless, IMO making a custom action for that isn't asking too much. What we need is a better way to share custom actions - if ReaPack supported them, for instance - rather than having to use the Stash.
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Yeah, there should be a better way to share custom actions, and maybe a "Starter Pack" of Custom Actions/Scripts. I know SWS exists but there are much more power in actions combined than a lot of scattered actions available.
Something like "Oh, you like X Daw functionality? Take this Script, little boy "
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08-09-2018, 10:10 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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I can't find anything for Cubase or Pro Tools that says if they adjust the pan low on folders/buses or not. :/
It occurs to me that, in Reaper, this situation can only happen if a new user has gotten far enough to change the pan law and so they could be expected to know that it's available.
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08-09-2018, 10:20 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,989
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna
I can't find anything for Cubase or Pro Tools that says if they adjust the pan low on folders/buses or not. :/
It occurs to me that, in Reaper, this situation can only happen if a new user has gotten far enough to change the pan law and so they could be expected to know that it's available.
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Volume in cubase doesn't decrease if you run trough a buss. Also, glad to see this subject brought up. I was getting super frustrated with folders in reaper, lowering volume, and I did after a while adjusted pan law, but never individually, so volume was always decreasing, and in the end I just stopped using folders all together, except for when i work on sfx, then I start with folder anyway.
But there might be another issue, cause it always sounded a bit like there is a slight phase issue when I put things in to a folder. I guess only way to check it for sure might be null test.
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08-09-2018, 10:53 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Posts: 1,344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delucci
That has been discussed here, I dont remember when.. Its about making Folders and, If the pan law is the same as the project (I use -3dB), and I'm using a lot of folders, my dB will keep dropping.
example: Guitar L goes into Guitar Stereo -> -3db
Guitar Stereo goes into Guitar Bus -> -3db
Guitar Bus goes into Master Bus -> -3db
In other Daws you call that a simple "Bus/Fx track or Folder track"
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Tick the gain compensation (boost pans).
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Magnus Lindberg Productions - VRTKL Audio - Redmount Studios
magnuslindberg.com
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08-09-2018, 10:54 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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I've done enough null tests that I can guarantee Reaper has no problems with folders regarding phase, etc, unless you have something with PDC and the chain you're testing against doesn't.
Question about pan law: Reaper's default is 0, which means the volume is constant no matter how many folders you run through. How were you having trouble if you hadn't already changed it?
I would 100% support an FR for folders to use a separate pan law setting, at any rate. Buses are harder because there's no such thing as bus in Reaper - it's just another track. You can always use templates for that though.
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08-09-2018, 12:41 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 357
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In response to the first message and folder problem; if Devs want to do something really big in version 6, they have to take this into consideration.
It would be awesome if the send and track outputs were to go from separate buses instead of the folder system. The biggest drop on Reaper is the same as send and track output.
Last edited by mamazai; 08-09-2018 at 12:46 PM.
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08-09-2018, 12:47 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazai
In response to the first message; if Devs want to do something really big in version 6, they have to take this into consideration.
It would be awesome if the send and track outputs were to go from separate buses instead of the folder system. The biggest drop on Reaper is the same as send and track output.
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A lot of us consider that to be a big plus - everything is treated the same, as opposed to DAWs with specific tracks and sends and folders and buses and MIDI tracks and instrument track... etc.
How does it cause trouble for you?
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08-09-2018, 01:18 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna
A lot of us consider that to be a big plus - everything is treated the same, as opposed to DAWs with specific tracks and sends and folders and buses and MIDI tracks and instrument track... etc.
How does it cause trouble for you?
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Agreed. It's actually a very elegant solution that Justin has implemented. Tracks are agnostic... and it took me a while to appreciate that.
The only things I'm still struggling with are mono recording and using MONO VST FX in Reaper's framework (like a mono Altiverb VST as opposed to it's stereo one)... and discrete surround routing using Reaper's surround panner. I've relegated to just using "sends". Still getting used to that stuff.
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Reaper v6.80+dev0621 - June 21 2023 • Catalina • Mac Mini 2020 6 core i7 • 64GB RAM • OS: Catalina • 4K monitor • RME RayDAT card with Sync Card and extended Light Pipe.
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08-09-2018, 02:18 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thonex
Agreed. It's actually a very elegant solution that Justin has implemented. Tracks are agnostic... and it took me a while to appreciate that.
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Ha ha, that's a new and strange way of describing it.
I love Reapers routing system, I can do anything I want with it.
To me, Reaper is all about imagination and has the best tools I know of for the imaginative.
Reaper basically has just 2 devs who are updating often, sometimes every day. Then there's Reaper's
scripting department that is 2nd-to-non, and the folks in the scripting department are increasing at a
pretty fair rate. I've personally asked for scripts now and then and I've gotten what I needed within
a few hours, sometimes minutes.
I'm also fascinated at how Reaper is growing across the network, and becoming one of the more popular
DAWs.
Last edited by Tod; 08-09-2018 at 02:25 PM.
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08-11-2018, 08:39 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lokasenna
A lot of us consider that to be a big plus - everything is treated the same, as opposed to DAWs with specific tracks and sends and folders and buses and MIDI tracks and instrument track... etc.
How does it cause trouble for you?
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For example, send tracks to a bus without using a folder. I want to work with the bus fader and the tracks reverb send with the same. But the signal level to the bus will not change, and the pre-fader output will not be on the tracks.
In short, as the bus level changes, the signal going to the bus will not change and the signal going to the reverb will change from the track send. This is the problem and I do not want to use the folder.
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08-11-2018, 08:49 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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I don't quite understand what you're doing, but I don't see anything that Reaper can't do. Make a track, send audio to it, make the sends pre-fader if you need too...
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08-11-2018, 10:22 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 29,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazai
In short, as the bus level changes, the signal going to the bus will not change and the signal going to the reverb will change from the track send. This is the problem and I do not want to use the folder.
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If I understand correctly (which I may not), that FX sends don't stay proportional when changing bus volume you'd have the same problem with a folder. The way to address that is by using a VCA track. That comes with the caveat of having a different problem if you are placing dynamics based plugins on the buss folder though.
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Music is what feelings sound like.
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08-11-2018, 11:05 AM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 357
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http://tinypic.com/r/1zqc75l/9
As the Bus fader level decreases, the Track to bus will not decrease but will decrease to the Reverb. If the signal going to the Bus goes down, the Bus insert is affected, I do not want it. Only the signal from the Track to the Reverb must be changed.
What we need is Track to Reverb "send path" and Track to Bus "track output" path. There is a province already, but for the latter, I need a different signal path than send.
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08-11-2018, 11:15 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Croatia
Posts: 24,798
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Yeah. You should use VCAs for what you want - it's already in there. We don't need anything new for that.
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08-11-2018, 11:26 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 6,551
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08-11-2018, 11:33 AM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 357
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But how did I find it with VCA? Could you show me an example? No interest in VCA or folder. Please try.
Changing the Track level with Bus fader and also the send level ( Track to Reverb ) but maintaining the level going Track to the Bus.
Last edited by mamazai; 08-11-2018 at 11:48 AM.
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08-11-2018, 11:37 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,820
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazai
But how did I find it with VCA? Could you show me an example?
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you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZzR7-KSQMU
i am talking about what i don't know: maybe the behaviour of folders could be optional? i think i would even like if folders where used as dummy and for visual organization of tracks only. Or a different kind of folder.
Last edited by deeb; 08-11-2018 at 12:06 PM.
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08-16-2018, 06:17 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 325
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I think I suffer from severe anxiety. I come to this forum like 5 times a day looking for a new pre.
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08-16-2018, 11:25 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Delucci
I think I suffer from severe anxiety. I come to this forum like 5 times a day looking for a new pre.
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We share the same disease its called addiction hahah
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08-17-2018, 03:08 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Black Forest
Posts: 5,067
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I check directly at the source @landoleet :P
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08-17-2018, 10:22 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mamazai
http://tinypic.com/r/1zqc75l/9
As the Bus fader level decreases, the Track to bus will not decrease but will decrease to the Reverb. If the signal going to the Bus goes down, the Bus insert is affected, I do not want it. Only the signal from the Track to the Reverb must be changed.
What we need is Track to Reverb "send path" and Track to Bus "track output" path. There is a province already, but for the latter, I need a different signal path than send.
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I'm not sure what you're trying to do, but if you route the "Track" to both the "Reverb" and "Bus" track, then route
the "Reverb" to the "Bus", you should get what you want. I think?
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08-18-2018, 01:52 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 357
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What I want to try is clear. Just try it once.
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