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Old 07-26-2010, 02:10 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
Exactly, there are no lanes but just takes included in items and they go taking 'item space' as you go adding them. This is the root of the problem here: takes are part of items, period. There is no way to walk around it and that's why we need something else based on 'pure' items and not takes.
Again.. no.
IMO, this is a display thing. To make it clear rather than technical venting: for example, imagine someone at Cockos is really, really drunk, that guy could decide to display this:



Like this:



In both cases, you load the same RPP. This is a display thing (which doesn't mean it's easy to do..)

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Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
And that's exactly why I was so excited when I saw that new feature in the pre-release because we could use that to achieve what people need. I will repeat myself here, there is no way to make reaper's current takes system behave exactly how you want/need, forget about it.
As I already said, I also of course see the light in (somehow) turning the -take- system into an -item- system, no doubt about that.
But, this imply sooooo many things before equaling the feature-set of the current system (as it said in the pre thread, btw) while this one could surely benefit or few enhancements that would make it far more usable. Indidual "take" editing (3) & Auto-split (4) could only be achieved with a new system, indeed. But IMO, numbering (1) & -visual- lanes (2, that surely require 1 first) could be surely be done in the current system.
This would be a great step forward (especially for those that really don't care about points 3 & 4). Both things being compatible, BTW.

Pretty please, hear some of us as we're hearing you Thanks!
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:24 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
Again.. no.
IMO, this is a display thing. To make it clear rather than technical venting: for example, imagine someone at Cockos is really, really drunk, that guy could decide to display this:

[img]

Like this:

[img with bananas]
I'm sure some folks would go absolutely bananas over this.
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:26 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by Bulls Hit View Post
It's a nice demo. But with all due respect to Adam, anyone who tries to record overlapping punchins like that needs to reevaluate their workflow.
With respect you should read the whole thread before posting, the video has been discussed multiple times.
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:02 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by Tallisman View Post
L-Dawg... my man! That is, in part, why I refer to it as a stack. But I think that calling this as it is may be a huge can-o-worms.

But in fact, The takes in lanes are truly takes in stacks. The stack get's it size cue from the Track height or the allotted space if FIMP enabled.


greetings
.t
Yeah. Those "stacks" will never align with unequal amounts of takes. It's just not physically possible without separating them individually from the larger grouped item, so that part of the discussion is moot in the context of modifying (not redesigning) the current system.

Frankly, I don't understand the logic behind the - forced - grouped item method. Even in Cubase with each individual take (region) being in it's own lane you can still group them all and make them behave the same way they do in Reaper, splits going all the way up and down and sizing for the entire range. Even though they didn't do it in Cubase it seems to be an easy step from there to "solo isolate" a selected region (by single click) in the vertical group, to tell one item to play in the stack.

So why is it mandatory that all of those takes be permanently physically attached vertically to each other just to do those two things, I don't understand. Below, these takes are grouped and they behave just like Reaper's takes. The only thing it needs is a "click a part to unmute it (play it) and mute the others in the same stack/group" and it would work exactly like Reaper's with the additional benefit of temporarily ungrouping to individually adjust part volume and fade or sizing, placement. Or to have a keymod that bypasses the grouping for those things.

In Cubase it's a key command to group. To emulate Reapers behavior it could be a preference to "Group all vertical takes on Stop when loop recording". I would never want to be locked into a permanent group just to allow selecting a take to play though.



So, imo, the permanent attachment of the vertical stack just to do that one thing (select to play) in Reaper isn't a flexible method. It's actually a hindrance to flexibility.

Last edited by Lawrence; 07-26-2010 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:16 AM   #405
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Originally Posted by DuraMorte View Post
A lot of this seems, to me (IMHO, etc. etc.), to be man-made problems, not software problems... If it cramps your style, fine. That obviously sucks pretty hard, and I'm sorry... It works great for me, because I always define exactly the section I need to punch in. I can't deal with chaos, so I actively take measures to prevent it's occurrence. Chaos is not allowed in my studio.
The problem that certain men are having is that the software requires such exact definition of punch in; some players are accustomed to having their more or less chaotic tracking process accurately documented and sorted by the recording engineer. As such, to disallow chaos in my studio would be akin to telling several folks I have worked with extensively to GTFO.

It seems absurd, the unintelligible mosaic created BY THE SOFTWARE, when used in a more "spontaneous" tracking style. Many men have brought these issues to light on this forum; I have been a supporter of Tallisman's four suggestions to alleviate this issue:

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1. Takes should not Rename themselves when earlier Takes are deleted from the stack
2. Takes should not resize themselves nor change lanes when new takes are added to, or removed from the stack.
3. The ability to edit takes (trim and such) independently of sister takes would be great.
4. death of auto-split (unless the three above can be realized)
which would be nice if incorporated into the software, so we need not use such extension actions as SWS "Build lanes" (which BTW has saved me incalculable time and effort as of late: thanks again Jeffos).

I'll throw my two posts (from the "SWS to help with takes and comping? how? where?" thread) out there again, as it seems relevant here and could perhaps help someone who has not found the SWS extension "Build lanes" action or is muddling through the same difficulties I was before finding it:

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...0&postcount=22

http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...8&postcount=32

Last edited by ezod; 07-26-2010 at 06:29 AM.
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:31 AM   #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bulls Hit View Post
It's a nice demo. But with all due respect to Adam, anyone who tries to record overlapping punchins like that needs to reevaluate their workflow.
Why? That is perfectly legitimate. I have yet to hear a good reason as to why that is an invalid way of composing or recording anything? I often write lyrics like that.

Overlapping takes like that look and work very differently in other DAWs, such that it is a non-issue. What I'd like to see is 4 (possibly 3) things tweaked to make it a non-issue in reaper.
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:41 AM   #407
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Why? That is perfectly legitimate. I have yet to hear a good reason as to why that is an invalid way of composing or recording anything? I often write lyrics like that.
Some people here seem to be obsessed with that video. Ignore the video and try to focus on the (subjective) issues being described elsewhere in detail.

In the interim... I may splurge for another one of those other "overpriced daws" today like Sonar Producer. Nasdaq is being really good to me this morning.



Woohoo!

Last edited by Lawrence; 07-26-2010 at 07:13 AM.
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:52 AM   #408
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Why? That is perfectly legitimate. I have yet to hear a good reason as to why that is an invalid way of composing or recording anything? I often write lyrics like that.
I sometimes write lyrics like that too. I just let it roll and sing what ever comes out of my head. Who's to say what's valid or not? it's the end result that counts.
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Old 07-26-2010, 07:07 AM   #409
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me too,

with the way that reaper has takes and FIPM, we should be able to at some point "reap" both logic's (my preferred take system) and Cubendo's take system so people can choose what works best for them.

Also, there are situations where both might be needed, takes are amazing for bouncing fx down or turning midi items that trigger synths into "freezed" audio items so let's aim to get both systems in
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:15 AM   #410
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here is quite simply everything that wrong with the current loop takes system

[IMG]http://img213.**************/img213/5608/72344120.gif[/IMG]

not to hard to fix post recording


& then there the Ultimate Takes Show Stopper

[IMG]http://img230.**************/img230/5493/39316522.gif[/IMG]

IMO there should just be a maximum amount of takes the first with silence prior to punch in & the last with silence Post Recording


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Old 07-26-2010, 08:23 AM   #411
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Originally Posted by Subz View Post
IMO there should just be a maximum amount of takes the first with silence prior to punch in & the last with silence Post Recording
wouldn't it be simple to just have an "only save complete takes" option when in loop recording mode?
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Old 07-26-2010, 08:30 AM   #412
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Originally Posted by d. gauss View Post
wouldn't it be simple to just have an "only save complete takes" option when in loop recording mode?
that would be FAR!!! better than nothing at all

in fact it may be the perfect solution for a Quick Fix if i did need something from the first or last incomplete take i could easily extend the last or first full take to access it

lets see where the reaper devs take this

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Old 07-26-2010, 08:34 AM   #413
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what if we had one BR or FR thread/issue for each of the problems with the take system?

this way they could be tackled individually? With this thread referencing all of them for an overall view of the issues? Obviously it might seem the whole system might need an overhaul, but there are issues that can be fixed individually as well, no?

And overview and an individual view would be good, methinks.
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:01 AM   #414
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Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
Again.. no.
IMO, this is a display thing. To make it clear rather than technical venting: for example, imagine someone at Cockos is really, really drunk, that guy could decide to display this:



Like this:



In both cases, you load the same RPP. This is a display thing (which doesn't mean it's easy to do..)

As I already said, I also of course see the light in (somehow) turning the -take- system into an -item- system, no doubt about that.
But, this imply sooooo many things before equaling the feature-set of the current system (as it said in the pre thread, btw) while this one could surely benefit or few enhancements that would make it far more usable. Indidual "take" editing (3) & Auto-split (4) could only be achieved with a new system, indeed. But IMO, numbering (1) & -visual- lanes (2, that surely require 1 first) could be surely be done in the current system.
This would be a great step forward (especially for those that really don't care about points 3 & 4). Both things being compatible, BTW.

Pretty please, hear some of us as we're hearing you Thanks!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffos
I had an interesting discussion with the rest of the band this week. In short, the subject was: *why* do you "waste" so precious time ?
At that time I said "why not?".. but, in fact, I totally still stuck on that question..

Why ? Indeed.. WHY ?

So, I really want to thank Reflected that really helps me in that thoughtful period
ahem...
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:20 AM   #415
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Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
Yeah. Those "stacks" will never align with unequal amounts of takes. It's just not physically possible without separating them individually from the larger grouped item, so that part of the discussion is moot in the context of modifying (not redesigning) the current system.

Frankly, I don't understand the logic behind the - forced - grouped item method. Even in Cubase with each individual take (region) being in it's own lane you can still group them all and make them behave the same way they do in Reaper, splits going all the way up and down and sizing for the entire range. Even though they didn't do it in Cubase it seems to be an easy step from there to "solo isolate" a selected region (by single click) in the vertical group, to tell one item to play in the stack.

So why is it mandatory that all of those takes be permanently physically attached vertically to each other just to do those two things, I don't understand. Below, these takes are grouped and they behave just like Reaper's takes. The only thing it needs is a "click a part to unmute it (play it) and mute the others in the same stack/group" and it would work exactly like Reaper's with the additional benefit of temporarily ungrouping to individually adjust part volume and fade or sizing, placement. Or to have a keymod that bypasses the grouping for those things.

In Cubase it's a key command to group. To emulate Reapers behavior it could be a preference to "Group all vertical takes on Stop when loop recording". I would never want to be locked into a permanent group just to allow selecting a take to play though.



So, imo, the permanent attachment of the vertical stack just to do that one thing (select to play) in Reaper isn't a flexible method. It's actually a hindrance to flexibility.
What he said.

That above gif in Subz post is an absolute mess

Last edited by The dman; 07-26-2010 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:11 AM   #416
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post

In the interim... I may splurge for another one of those other "overpriced daws" today like Sonar Producer. Nasdaq is being really good to me this morning.



Woohoo!
I'm starting to think hard about Samplitude or something like it, to be completely honest. This has been an awesome thread for the most part - but like you, I'm smacking myself and saying, "doh!" with regard to the discovery that quick-swipe-type takes/comping probably requires a ground-up rewrite (that would be silly to expect at this point). Native object editing and that type of take management is really something that (for me) is a must have for at least a part of my commercial work (in the vein of being "must have" for smooth and fairly effortless work flow - I'm certainly not suggesting anything is "undoable" in Reaper).

Kind of disappointing, though, on a number of levels.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:14 AM   #417
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Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill View Post
what if we had one BR or FR thread/issue for each of the problems with the take system?

this way they could be tackled individually? With this thread referencing all of them for an overall view of the issues? Obviously it might seem the whole system might need an overhaul, but there are issues that can be fixed individually as well, no?

And overview and an individual view would be good, methinks.
a great idea - Tallisman may have (super handy) the links to the FRs that have been discussed already (concerning his "gospel" tenants). Might be a start?
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:21 AM   #418
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I'm starting to think hard about Samplitude or something like it, to be completely honest. This has been an awesome thread for the most part - but like you, I'm smacking myself and saying, "doh!" with regard to the discovery that quick-swipe-type takes/comping probably requires a ground-up rewrite (that would be silly to expect at this point). Native object editing and that type of take management is really something that (for me) is a must have for at least a part of my commercial work (in the vein of being "must have" for smooth and fairly effortless work flow - I'm certainly not suggesting anything is "undoable" in Reaper).

Kind of disappointing, though, on a number of levels.
As a person who went from Cubase to Samplitude I would caution you to not get caught up in the "grass is greener" bit. There were very specific things that I was doing on a regular basis that made the change a no brainer for me. However, not everything in Samp is roses. For most things I still think Cubase is the best host I've used from a mixing/editing standpoint. From a tracking/comping standpoint Samp is the biatch. Obviously there are other players if you have a Mac.

So, just saying, make sure you know exactly why you are switching before you spend the $$. I'm still not comfortable using Reaper. There a ton of things I like about it, but it still feels like 2 left shoes when I try to edit in it.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:28 AM   #419
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Does midi even work the same way? I mean, when you record looped midi does it also 'stack' like audio takes? I don't have a midi controller here but I don't see that option. An example of the desired result is below, to loop record and, depending on what note you hit during a pass, create a new take for that pitch.

Obviously the editing requirements here are going to be different from "comping" audio. You'll want to reach right into parts and directly edit, trim, whatever.



For those who might wonder why you'd do this and not use separate tracks, this method allows (via drum maps) sending each pitch to a different VSTI or midi port and also doing any basic CC mixing by pitch right on the track without going into a key editor... along with the obvious things like arranging easier (muting a bar of a certain pitch) etc, etc.

So "takes" with midi looping (for me) is about totally different parts, not different performances of the same parts. I'd like to get Susan's "take" on this.

Last edited by Lawrence; 07-26-2010 at 11:34 AM.
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Old 07-26-2010, 11:52 AM   #420
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Here's a Licecap gif of the above. On looping if you don't play any midi on a particular pass (auditioning the last) it doesn't create a new part/take until you start playing again so you can pause every other loop to hear what you just recorded and get prepared for the next pitch/pass, snare note or whatever. To build your drum pattern in realtime but have all of the pitches separate, if you only play that pitch on a single pass.

You can see how recording takes/laps/passes that way alleviates the need to enter the key editor for basic things like quantizing the hats different from the kick or reducing the velocity of the snare or whatever. You never really have to stop the loop to edit, (correction), you can edit the previously recorded passes while everything is still record enabled so if you want to quantize your last pass, you can while never punching out.

On top of that, when you do call the key editor, only the pitch of that part (or multiple selected parts) will show up there.


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Old 07-26-2010, 12:20 PM   #421
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Here are some FRs related to the discussions here:

- Capslock modifier for independent take editing: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=522
- Takes do not resize vertically nor move/jump lanes, unless I do it manually: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=521
- Option to turn off auto-splitting of takes: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=518
- Takes do not rename unless I rename them: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=520

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reflected View Post
ahem...
!!?? and ??

I don't know what kind of game you want to play, but, anyway.. your arms are too short for that: you even go nowhere with that! I won't unfortunately be able to follow: ignore list! Bye, bye Reflected

note: as you can see, Reflected removed the link my unrelated quote (2nd one). Probably because of an user error, or because of his "bad english" and not because of how ridiculous he was in the original thread. How brave he is! The original/real subject was about extensions: what I just meant there is that in my quest of the "why", I've at least found it's not "because" of guys like him.
No or wrong credits, not supporting, not donnating, etc.. is one thing, that's ok, but such manners as well as spiting on 3rd party devs like he also did in the past (even if quiclky edited but too late, once again!) is another..
[edit] Original thread: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=61859

Last edited by Jeffos; 07-26-2010 at 12:40 PM. Reason: Original thread URL
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:24 PM   #422
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As a person who went from Cubase to Samplitude I would caution you to not get caught up in the "grass is greener" bit. There were very specific things that I was doing on a regular basis that made the change a no brainer for me. However, not everything in Samp is roses. For most things I still think Cubase is the best host I've used from a mixing/editing standpoint. From a tracking/comping standpoint Samp is the biatch. Obviously there are other players if you have a Mac.

So, just saying, make sure you know exactly why you are switching before you spend the $$. I'm still not comfortable using Reaper. There a ton of things I like about it, but it still feels like 2 left shoes when I try to edit in it.
great advice....and I don't think I'll "leave" Reaper in any case. It is the bomb (as I said earlier) for live recording as well as just amazing for mixing (best routing ever (for me)!)...it even does the hybrid ITB/OTB mixing paradigm flawlessly and so flexibly, I wouldn't even want to think about "switching" for my basic mix rig.

Given the topic at hand, however, I am starting to seriously consider Samp for exactly what you mention - tracking/comping.
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:30 PM   #423
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As a person who went from Cubase to Samplitude I would caution you to not get caught up in the "grass is greener" bit. There were very specific things that I was doing on a regular basis that made the change a no brainer for me. However, not everything in Samp is roses. For most things I still think Cubase is the best host I've used from a mixing/editing standpoint. From a tracking/comping standpoint Samp is the biatch. Obviously there are other players if you have a Mac.
There lies the rub with all daws. You kinda have to find one that's "acceptable" for most things because none of them will be great at all things. For me, Cubase used to be sufficient for all things. As I started to look more into Reaper, more of it's relative flaws started to bug me, but not so much that it was an issue.

But when I started mixing in Studio One, even with it's current routing shortcomings, there was really no going back for me. Cubase does midi better than both and comps (imo) better than both and Reaper travels better than both and edits better than Studio One and so on and so on.

All 3 of them (with FL Studio "Fruity Edition" as a VSTI) make the perfect daw. Between the three there is nothing I can't get done and nothing that I have to be unhappy with for any long period of time.

The perfect daw is like the perfect girlfriend... everything's fine until she starts farting in her sleep at 3 a.m...
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:32 PM   #424
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Originally Posted by Jeffos View Post
Here are some FRs related to the discussions here:

- Capslock modifier for independent take editing: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=522
- Takes do not resize vertically nor move/jump lanes, unless I do it manually: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=521
- Option to turn off auto-splitting of takes: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=518
- Takes do not rename unless I rename them: http://forum.cockos.com/project.php?issueid=520

Jeffos - I just pushed those four to the top in the interest of (perhaps) following JBM's suggestion to explore each on in depth in that venue. We'll see if it takes off.
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:35 PM   #425
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Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
All 3 of them (with FL Studio "Fruity Edition" as a VSTI) make the perfect daw. Between the three there is nothing I can't get done and nothing that I have to be unhappy with for any long period of time.
So how do you have the 3 "chained" up?
Or do you use one at a time?

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The perfect daw is like the perfect girlfriend... everything's fine until she starts farting in her sleep at 3 a.m...
Depends on how dope she is
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:42 PM   #426
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Originally Posted by Lawrence View Post
There lies the rub with all daws. You kinda have to find one that's "acceptable" for most things because none of them will be great at all things. For me, Cubase used to be sufficient for all things. As I started to look more into Reaper, more of it's relative flaws started to bug me, but not so much that it was an issue.

But when I started mixing in Studio One, even with it's current routing shortcomings, there was really no going back for me. Cubase does midi better than both and comps (imo) better than both and Reaper travels better than both and edits better than Studio One and so on and so on.

All 3 of them (with FL Studio "Fruity Edition" as a VSTI) make the perfect daw. Between the three there is nothing I can't get done and nothing that I have to be unhappy with for any long period of time.

The perfect daw is like the perfect girlfriend... everything's fine until she starts farting in her sleep at 3 a.m...
Completely agree, Lawrence....and you eloquently back up a statement I made on another (unfortunately) very "inflammatory" type of thread about Reaper. I stated that no DAW could be the "master" of all disciplines (or words to that effect). I was (and am) concerned about Reaper's seeming desire to tackle everything. Again, this is not a judgement...it is a concern (of mine) only. The phrase, "Jack of all trades, master of none" has begun to come to mind lately (i.e. over the past year) for me in the development thrust of this program that I so very much like - if it does lean towards striving for mastery of something over the past year, it would seem to be in areas that are not "up my lane" (pun intended for this discussion) as an audio recordist/performer/mixer.

It's all good - and everything has its place as you say (better than I can) above. However, I do think Reaper is coming to a place very quickly at which the developers will need to clarify the way ahead for Reaper with respect to these "disciplines". They may not need to do so "verbally", but the other options out there will force the development to take a given tack...which will amount to the same thing.

Back to takes/comping...apologize for the soliloquy. Like I said above, I've "bumped" the four FRs that outline T's 4 "take laws" in the hopes of seeing if Jason's suggestion to further dive into each one singly might be fruitful.
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:44 PM   #427
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Or do you use one at a time?
I start with the one that best fits the task. If I'm doing midi productions with vocals for a amateur R&B solo singer type and I know the midi will be pretty involved and the vocals will probably need some tuning I start in Cubase, have to, it's the only one that talks to all of my midi hardware. I do all of the editing there, export XML archive and mix in Studio One. (later if there is a actual "mix session" later)

If it's a straight away audio recording with minimal audio editing expected, or basic loop based production with minimal vocal comping and tuning expected I'll start and finish in Studio One.

If it's a "start from scratch" hip-hop thing here I'll start it in standalone FLStudio for the midi/sample based part and if vocals are involved I'll decide which daw to load the FL VSTI (and the production music) into later for tracking vox.

If I'm not toting a laptop and working or visiting somewhere else on a collab or just a friendly jam where they don't have a daw that I'm familiar with, I use Reaper on my USB wallet credit card key. I can launch it and be recording in minutes as opposed to trying to figure out how to use something I've never really used before like Sonar.

It does tend to freak people out when you run Reaper from a USB stick and they realize it's not a toy.

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Old 07-26-2010, 02:52 PM   #428
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So you'd argue that Cubase is the most likely to work well with most hardware out of the box... or are you just saying that it's tuned to your setup?
I'm interested to know what people are relying on these days, aside from Reaper of course, given that Pro Tools has pissed me off lately.
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Old 07-26-2010, 02:54 PM   #429
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So Lawrence, do you actually use Reaper much anymore, or is that affair kind of over?
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Old 07-26-2010, 03:02 PM   #430
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So you'd argue that Cubase is the most likely to work well with most hardware out of the box... or are you just saying that it's tuned to your setup?
I'm interested to know what people are relying on these days, aside from Reaper of course, given that Pro Tools has pissed me off lately.
I think Cubase and similar are more likely to do that (with midi hardware and digital consoles) across the board out of the box, yes. For midi (imo, and not just "VSTI midi" as people view midi these days) it's hard to beat. Audio? Many challengers.
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Old 07-26-2010, 03:31 PM   #431
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Just chiming in here.

I fall in the group that would like a re-haul of the current takes system. I just don't understand what the original intention was with the current design. I'm not trying to be sarcastic at all, I really don't see what the devs envisioned with this one. After pulling my hair out for some time, I luckily found out about the FIPM and have used that ever since.

So yes, how do the devs envision the current take system working? How do they tackle the 'mosaic' that gets created.

How do they envision comping with the current take system?

Editing takes?

I read the manual from cover to cover and still, these questions remain unanswered for myself.

I read 'most' of this thread, saw a lot of great ideas and I really hope the devs are reading this. (no doubt they are with their track record)

Until then, I'll just stick with the Free Item Position mode, I'm sure there are faster ways (saw some cool workaround from Mercado and others) but I'm not doing insane comps and punch-ins yet. I have a feeling things will get ironed out, once and for all, after this thread.
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Old 07-26-2010, 03:46 PM   #432
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So Lawrence, do you actually use Reaper much anymore, or is that affair kind of over?
I use it on my laptops for various things and I use it when I'm out and about as I said above, when I'm traveling without either of my laptops.

Do I use it in the studio? No. For the reasons given above. I like it a lot, but it's not something I can use full time in the studio because the midi is just overall (no offense) too weak.

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Old 07-26-2010, 04:36 PM   #433
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Meanwhile, those of us recording variable tempo music using linear recording have all their takes one after another along the project, and no built in method to assist in compiling those into a single version at all.

And now, back to the topic.
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:17 PM   #434
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Meanwhile, those of us recording variable tempo music using linear recording have all their takes one after another along the project, and no built in method to assist in compiling those into a single version at all.
What about, implode items on same track into takes?
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Old 07-26-2010, 05:43 PM   #435
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I'm thinking more of the four point editing stuff that I toyed with way back. And I'm derailing this thread! I should know better. But just mentioning that not all 'takes' are over-writes.
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:24 PM   #436
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Here's a Licecap gif of the above. On looping if you don't play any midi on a particular pass (auditioning the last) it doesn't create a new part/take until you start playing again so you can pause every other loop to hear what you just recorded and get prepared for the next pitch/pass, snare note or whatever. To build your drum pattern in realtime but have all of the pitches separate, if you only play that pitch on a single pass.

You can see how recording takes/laps/passes that way alleviates the need to enter the key editor for basic things like quantizing the hats different from the kick or reducing the velocity of the snare or whatever. You never really have to stop the loop to edit, (correction), you can edit the previously recorded passes while everything is still record enabled so if you want to quantize your last pass, you can while never punching out.

On top of that, when you do call the key editor, only the pitch of that part (or multiple selected parts) will show up there.

http://dawsession.com/pics/laps.gif
That is very cool. I like that.
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:43 PM   #437
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That is very cool. I like that.
Yes that seems very useful and logical. FR time?
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:46 PM   #438
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That is very cool. I like that.
I thought you might recall that from your Yesterdaw memories. That looping midi behavior is pretty old, from at least mid SX.
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Old 07-26-2010, 06:52 PM   #439
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Here's a Licecap gif of the above. On looping if you don't play any midi on a particular pass (auditioning the last) it doesn't create a new part/take until you start playing again so you can pause every other loop to hear what you just recorded and get prepared for the next pitch/pass, snare note or whatever. To build your drum pattern in realtime but have all of the pitches separate, if you only play that pitch on a single pass.

You can see how recording takes/laps/passes that way alleviates the need to enter the key editor for basic things like quantizing the hats different from the kick or reducing the velocity of the snare or whatever. You never really have to stop the loop to edit, (correction), you can edit the previously recorded passes while everything is still record enabled so if you want to quantize your last pass, you can while never punching out.

On top of that, when you do call the key editor, only the pitch of that part (or multiple selected parts) will show up there.

http://dawsession.com/pics/laps.gif
FR...where?

Last edited by Tallisman; 07-26-2010 at 07:22 PM. Reason: linked to image to lighten the load
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Old 07-26-2010, 07:10 PM   #440
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FR...where?
The only FR (I suppose) that would be directly relevant to this thread would be not creating empty takes on loops when no midi is being played. There are other differences between them but none of those are relevant to this thread and the "takes" discussion in general.

But, unlike my example gif, you can't just let Reaper loop while recording midi if you aren't playing. It keeps (at least here) making empty takes on every pass. The looping is an emulation of what hardware drum machines or hardware midi sequencers do, they just keep looping the pattern length in record and don't do anything until you actually play a note.

So if there's an FR there it's don't create a new take when loop midi recording unless data came in during the loop cycle.

Last edited by Lawrence; 07-26-2010 at 07:32 PM.
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