can't seem to make drums stand out

[metallicaguy1]

I use ezdrummer 2 as my drums, but just can't seem to get them right, in the mix. They sound okay, but aren't loud enough to my liking. the guitar and bass stand out, but the drums don't seem dynamic enough. If I increase loudness, boy, do I get a sound I like--that, however, comes with a price: clipping! I turn the guitars down, and then they sound weak. Anyone else have this problem?

BTW, I'm using Reacomp on the drums, too. And I've equed them. If I could just make them stand out a little more, I'd be happier with the end result.

And I've used a limiter as well--on the whole track, though.

[planetnine]

Do you compress the drum channels to bring the punch out? Do you know how to manipulate he attack and release controls to shape the envelope of the rum hits?


>

[mdmiller]

My guess is that the guitars sound weaker simply because they've been turned down. They probably aren't weaker, it might just be the way our ears perceive things at lower volumes. This can be especially true after listening to something at a high level and then turning it down. I'd try turning the guitars and other instruments down, adjust the drum level to suit and then crank up the volume on the interface.

[cymbals]

Let the track clip as long as the master doesn't clip.
Turn down the master as need be.

This video explains it: https://youtu.be/5efick6yJA4

[DBMusic]

Don't mean to sound trite, but a lot of "loudness" issues can be addressed by turning your tracks down and the feed to your monitors up. Playback the drums only and try turning your monitors up until you get that sound your like, then mix the rest of the tracks.

That being said, a good colored compressor (like a Fatso emulation) can add some nice beef. Parallel compression is another tool to beef up your drums. Finally, a good reverb to open up spatial qualities in the mix can also be very effective.

Good luck!

[RDBOIS]

We all know there are no "magic quick fixes" to solve such issues, but I'm stuck with using VSTi drums and found that slapping this plugin, before the compression, helped a little bit (every little bit counts):

Ferox tape saturation -

http://www.vst4free.com/free_vst.php?id=2063


Speaking of compression, I really like ReaComp a lot, but sometimes -- for technical reasons beyond my capacity to understand - when I use Digitalfishphone's Endorphin dual-band stereo compressor I get a louder drum track; try different setting (e.g. loud and punchy).


http://www.digitalfishphones.com/mai...em=2&subItem=3

If you can't get loud drum with these two free plugins then I don't know what will... LOL


Note: Normally I also EXPLODE the midi tracks and work on each drum part separately, before gluing everything back together with Tape Sat and Comp - this way I can work the bass and kick, do things to the high end (e.g. cymbals), carve out space for the snare, etc.).

[Glennbo]

A couple things I do with digital my drums. On kick snare, and toms I use a transient shaper. I usually put it first in the chain, and tweak it to bring out the initial attack of the drums.

I generally will use a couple layers of compression after that. I like to use ReaXcomp to tailor the balance of low, mid, high, and after that straight compression like ReaComp. In both cases, I try to set the thresholds such that they are barely being crosses, and minimal compression is happening, but happening twice. Once both altering tone and dynamic range, and the second just reducing dynamic range some more. This helps keep the kick, snare, and toms more out front, especially when quick fills are played during an already crowded mix.

One thing you have to watch out for with compressors and drums is that you will bring out the ringing of the head, and the ambience of the room sound the more you squash the drums. To a certain degree that will make a more lively sound, but past a certain point it will begin to muddy the sound and make the drums less detailed and washy sounding. This is why I suggest setting the threshold such that you barely cross it, and the compression ratio low.

Lastly multiple layers of light compression can reduce the dynamic range better than one layer bringing it down by the same amount. The reason is that the detection of crossing the threshold is working smaller and smaller dynamic range. I have a hardware compressor that has a built-in triple compression that is like three compressors in series for the same reason.

Also, if you are not bringing EZ-Drummer out to REAPER as individual tracks, you should be. IOW, at least get the kick, snare, toms, and cymbals on their own tracks in REAPER so you can individually tweak them outside of EZ-Drummer. I started with EZ-Drummer, but use Superior Drummer 2 now, as well as acoustic drums.
-

[cassembler]

If you love everything solo (and assuming you're mixing rock), I'd first start with getting a basic, dry mix. Drop everything to -infinity, bring up a rough drum mix (careful to leave a solid 15 to 20 dB of headroom at the master), then slowly bring up bass, guitar, and other elements. As you bring each element in (and out) of the mix, take note where there are conflicts (when is your kick disappearing? Is it the whole kick, or just the thump?), and begin resolving them with available tools.

Volumes of encyclopedias have been written on rock mixing, so don't feel bad if you're struggling to get 'the sound' you're looking for. (Glennbo, I believe, is providing some recipes from tons of experience)

If you're looking to really understand, figure out why the recipes work and what they taste like - cycle through it, research, test, rinse, repeat. Burn sample mixes and find what sounds better to you.

[tls11823]

There are no hard-and-fast recipes, but the following seems to work for me in most rock/pop songs.

1. Get the kick sounding good by itself
2. Add the bass and make it work with the kick
3. Add the snare and make it work with the kick and bass
4. Add the lead vocal and/or lead instrumental and get it sounding good with everything so far
5. Everything else one at a time in order of importance to the song

In almost every case, the first four items are panned straight up the middle. Almost everything else goes to one side or the other. But don't be shy about starting with everything in the middle to get a good mix, and then exploit the stereo field.

[DarrenH]

I don't mix drums much anymore but for traditional mixes I used to get the vox/drums/bass and then carve everything else to fit. Maybe zeroing everything and build up the mix in the way you find important.

Another thing to potentially consider is arrangement (I've found it's 80% of production really) revisiting parts to make sure that there's room for big ass drums if that's what's important in the track, playing in a way that accentuates/compliments, etc.

[Magicbuss]

Wow I have the opposite problem with E-drums and samples (I have EZ drummer 2 as well). They are so processed that they stick out unnaturally.

I mean using a transient designer makes no sense. These sample based drums are already processed and have a TON of attack. Too much in some cases (slate is the worst IMO - too much attack and too much 3-4k)

I would try tape saturation, parallel compression and even parallel distortion.

The idea with paralell processing is to gel the kit together and add some body while leaving the original attack alone.

[serr]

Originally Posted by metallicaguy1

I use ezdrummer 2 as my drums, but just can't seem to get them right, in the mix. They sound okay, but aren't loud enough to my liking. the guitar and bass stand out, but the drums don't seem dynamic enough. If I increase loudness, boy, do I get a sound I like--that, however, comes with a price: clipping! I turn the guitars down, and then they sound weak. Anyone else have this problem?

BTW, I'm using Reacomp on the drums, too. And I've equed them. If I could just make them stand out a little more, I'd be happier with the end result.

And I've used a limiter as well--on the whole track, though.

Rock right?

You probably need to hear the sound of them pummeling the room as it were rather than up close volume.

Try this for starters:
Parallel track for the overheads (or overhead bus if you do that).
Bludgeon it with a compressor! High pass to lose the sub bass content that now sounds stupid. You may also want to saturate this (distortion).
Blend that in with the main overhead bus.

This assumes the meat of the drum sound comes form the overheads and any close mics are spot mics to bring in for the close up detail.

You can also put the drums into a fake room (reverb) and distort/compress/bandpass that to taste and blend it in.

[somebodyelseuk]

In my experience, drum software usually includes an 'onboard mixer' which, by default, applies default EQ and compression.

Either, try NOT eqing and compressing your recorded tracks and see how they sound 'in the mix' before adding further EQ and compression, OR switch off the eq and compression in the drum VSTi. Remember, you're processing samples that may have a litle eq and compression applied at recording, plus the VSTi default processing and then your own attempts on top of all that; they may just be TOO processed.

Regarding volume/level/loudness, get the 'on screen levels' below 'crappy' and then if the whole thing isn't loud enough turn the interface/speakers up.