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Old 02-26-2011, 06:00 PM   #1
olilarkin
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Default IPlug Community effort

Despite the fact WDL is "in the wild" and changes are trackable on git (which i think is a very good move), IPlug hasn't changed much for the last year or maybe longer. I would love to see a more feature complete version of IPlug. The majority of the changes on the Cockos git repository lately are to do with reaper stuff and since it seems like IPlug was schwa (and scott stillwell's?) baby originally I can imagine that nowadays other things take precedence (i.e. reaper 4).

A few of us are working away on our own modded versions but by pooling our collective efforts and opinions about how things should work etc, we could create a more feature complete, standard "community version" that would benefit everyone and make the framework much more appealing for other developers. This in turn would increase the amount of people fixing and testing stuff. I think new IPlug users will often mistrust an individual's branch of the project, where as a community version would appear safer.

Here is a list of things that i think are missing from the Cockos IPlug version or need some work. Various people have fixed many of these things in their own ways, but still, to make a community version such things would have to be agreed upon.

- Text display (different fonts, osx/win should look the same)
- Text input
- Popup, contextual menus (with style options like vstgui)
- Seperate PromptUserInput() from the notion of parameters, so it can be used for other stuff
- IGraphicsLice to IGraphics merge (see schwa's post below)
- Cocoa class name conflicts
- Program/Preset manipulation from the plugin (i spent today adding this one).. i.e. renaming and selecting programs from inside the plugin gui
- OSX file selection
- OSX color chooser
- Better ide projects/makefiles
- 64 bit support
- Some effort to reduce the number of compiler warnings and to comply to the latest standards i.e. gcc's warning about &IRECT etc
- better example projects demonstrating all the controls and features
- state saving / serialization
- documentation!!!

some things that i think would be a lot more work, but nice...

- vst3 support
- RTAS support
- linux ladspa/lv2/dssi? support

anyway, what do people think about it? anything to add to the above lists? I'm not sure how difficult it would be to manage this kind of thing and how it would work, since i didn't work on a collaborative open source project before.

let me know,

oli
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Old 02-27-2011, 02:25 AM   #2
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For me ideally these things would get into the Cockos repo. But as that doesn't seem to be happening a Community effort is the next best thing, so I'd support it.
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Old 02-27-2011, 02:38 AM   #3
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If this is going to happen, I would love to see it get on github and adopt a "standard" open source workflow with peer reviews and a central "committee" (made of just a few of us) that approved all changes that made it back into the main branch. With that in mind I would also like to see it follow a formal process of pull requests and reviews.

I would be happy to participate in getting that process set up.
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Old 02-27-2011, 06:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
If this is going to happen, I would love to see it get on github and adopt a "standard" open source workflow with peer reviews and a central "committee" (made of just a few of us) that approved all changes that made it back into the main branch. With that in mind I would also like to see it follow a formal process of pull requests and reviews.

I would be happy to participate in getting that process set up.
that all sounds great to me
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Old 03-04-2011, 03:16 AM   #5
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so nobody else is interested?
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Old 03-04-2011, 07:59 AM   #6
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As I said before, I very am too Oli! But I'm not sure I would participate on a regular basis (my main prob here is time..)
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Old 03-04-2011, 08:19 AM   #7
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So small user base here
I would like to participate but I don't have the skills nor time ;(
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Old 03-04-2011, 09:04 AM   #8
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I'm interested, especially in 64 bit version of IPlug.
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Old 03-06-2011, 03:21 AM   #9
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This will be a little hit and miss until we get into a groove, but here is a repo ready to go:

https://github.com/b-vesco/wdl-ce

Primary task for those that want to contribute:

Create a github account

Add yourself to the membership page in your desired slot.

You may need to wait for me to add you to the project to follow some of the directions below...

Go to the github project, find the pull request, follow the instructions.

There is also a starting "guidelines" page on the wiki at github.

After reading the pull request and the guidelines, make sure to visit the wiki "membership" page and add yourself to the appropriate category based on your level of interest for helping with the project.

P.S. Don't commit any code to anything yet. Let's not get ahead of ourselves and give it another week or so to establish some best practices for the repo. Being that we're using it in "free" mode we don't have a lot of admin capability so we're going to need some self control to keep things tidy.
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Old 03-06-2011, 10:39 AM   #10
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good work bvesco,

I am a little confused by the number of different branches at the moment. Are they just inherited because you cloned the whole cockos repo?

also i think if it's possible it would be good to have a url more like

https://github.com/wdl-ce

but i guess it doesn't matter so much,

oli
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Old 03-06-2011, 02:14 PM   #11
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Did you make a github account? I'd like to add you to the repo. I expect your name to show up on the list of directors

I agree on the name, but with a free account our hands are tied in that regard. A good thing about got is that if the project grows to warrant more dedicated hosting it is trivial to move the whole repo with history intact.

Number of branches? It was my best guess at what we want for now. Branches are just pointers in git so can be created and deleted with no overhead.
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Old 03-06-2011, 05:10 PM   #12
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Very good initiative!
I don't think I have the prerequisite wisdom to provide much guidance but will watch with great interest.
The value added features will be very useful to my own plugs, and it will be good to get some insight into how a well designed library is grown!
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Old 03-07-2011, 02:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olilarkin View Post
so nobody else is interested?
Well, I am interested. However, I don't think I will be contributing anything directly. I already maintain and share my own customized WDL Git repository (which I have to do for myself anyway, so this is not much of an effort), and I track some of you guys' repositories. At this moment a community repository wouldn't add much IMHO; not for me personally anyway.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:43 AM   #14
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ok, i created a github account and added myself to the list.

Quote:
Well, I am interested. However, I don't think I will be contributing anything directly. I already maintain and share my own customized WDL Git repository (which I have to do for myself anyway, so this is not much of an effort), and I track some of you guys' repositories. At this moment a community repository wouldn't add much IMHO; not for me personally anyway.
it would be good to have you on board. I expect we'll be including quite a few of your changes

personally, i have a plugin that is just about ready to be released based on my modified WDL, so i will keep two separate versions. Hopefully if the WDL-CE takes off i can move to that at a later date.
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Old 03-08-2011, 01:22 AM   #15
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Tale

The primary goal would be to be able to share our changes with each other and the community in a more structured and controllable fashion. The current model of us each having our own repo is not the best. One example is recently I tried to incorporate some OSX input code from one of the other repos currently available. Not only is it somewhat buggy, but I can't be sure it was committed atomically so there may be unrelated code that I had to take in order to get it. It also means I have to accept that the code is fine with no peer review or other process to offer some guarantee of quality. If there's not a lot of support, desire or need for a community version then it will eventually just wither and die. I think it benefits all of us to make this happen, but it is certainly much easier to not make it happen. It would certainly if nothing else be fine if you want to transfer your repo into the community edition and keep your WDL mods there in your own branch. github at the very least maintains a high degree of reliability in terms of keeping your repo up and available "forever" even if you personally change hosts or stop paying for your web space for one reason or another.
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Old 03-08-2011, 06:39 AM   #16
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can those who are interested in participating join github and add themselves to the membership list on the wiki? I am quite keen to get started, github looks like geeky fun

a few questions for bvesco...

-could you explain the purpose of the various branches? dev, candidate, release, cockos-master, cockos-next & candidate

-I would have thought we'd start from the current cockos master no?

-what kind of things shall we discuss here, vs on github?

-I would like to add my list of things above as a wiki page, and perhaps we can group them by priority and start creating "issues" for some of them. What do you think?

-Is the idea that you create a branch for fixing each issue separately and then submit a pull request?
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Old 03-09-2011, 01:50 AM   #17
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-could you explain the purpose of the various branches? dev, candidate, release, cockos-master, cockos-next & candidate

Dev: some generic place to do generic stuff, probably we won't use it. Candidate: a release candidate, the place we would do topic branches off of and pull requests into. Release: the official release branch, pulled from candidate whenever we decide to do official releases. Cockos next and master are mirrors of the cockos repo.

-I would have thought we'd start from the current cockos master no?

No, our next stable release starts at Cockos' last stable release. Likely we will end up pulling everything Cockos does into our own candidate branch, but not blindly.

-what kind of things shall we discuss here, vs on github?

Discuss everything here. There is no forum on github. Pull requests and code reviews happen on github, in their appropriate places.

-I would like to add my list of things above as a wiki page, and perhaps we can group them by priority and start creating "issues" for some of them. What do you think?

I don't know if a wiki page is necessary. Make issues for the features you would like to see addressed. Every feature is worked on in its own topic branch off of candidate. Every feature should have a pull request that goes under official review before being merged into candidate.

-Is the idea that you create a branch for fixing each issue separately and then submit a pull request?

Yes, see above.

The first "work" I would recommend is going through the cockos changes and evaluating them for inclusion to our own candidate. We should also figure out what the release schedule is for the community edition. Do we release whenever we feel like it? Do we release once a month? What are the criteria for determining if a release is stable enough to be a release?
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Old 03-09-2011, 03:29 AM   #18
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thanks for all the answers,

Quote:
The first "work" I would recommend is going through the cockos changes and evaluating them for inclusion to our own candidate.
as far as i can see there are only a few that relate directly to IPlug. Some Lice related ones are probably necessary and some maybe some swell (although i don't think there is much of iplug that relies on swell). The problem is that Cockos are supposedly testing these changes with the latest reaper builds, and we don't have an application to test most of the changes with, or a reason to, as plugin developers.

Quote:
We should also figure out what the release schedule is for the community edition. Do we release whenever we feel like it? Do we release once a month? What are the criteria for determining if a release is stable enough to be a release?
I think we need a better example plugin (or a few) as a kind of test suite to evaluate the community edition. When these are working properly we could do a release. Since not many people seem to be interested in participating I don't think we should commit to any schedule.

I would like to propose that for this new example plugin we switch to a project that doesn't link to static libraries like the cockos example. I have switched to this approach which, although taking slightly longer to compile afresh, has saved me a massive amount of time when modifying and debugging IPlug code. Also it has allowed me to define IGraphicsCocoa on a per plugin basis using a preprocessor macro, solving the class name conflict.
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Old 03-09-2011, 05:20 AM   #19
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I signed up

Fwiw, the biggest thing I would change is combining IGraphics and IGraphicsLice, removing all of the drawing methods, and simply exposing the lice bitmap to the plugin implementer. When iplug was written, lice did not exist (the original implementation used GDI+, which is why the abstraction between IGraphics and IGraphicsLice exists.).

That change would remove a bunch of pointless pass-through code, and make plugin drawing far more flexible. The coder could just call Lice functions directly.
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Old 03-09-2011, 06:33 AM   #20
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^^ I exactly did that (w/o caring too much about OSX though) and it's one of the reasons why I don't follow IPlug updates for a long time..
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The first "work" I would recommend is going through the cockos changes and evaluating them for inclusion to our own candidate.
don't you think WDL updates (out of IPlug) should always be included in "blind mode" and rather adapt the IPlug OS code if needed ?
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:00 AM   #21
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Quote:
I signed up
great! you can keep an eye on us ;-)

Quote:
Fwiw, the biggest thing I would change is combining IGraphics and IGraphicsLice, removing all of the drawing methods, and simply exposing the lice bitmap to the plugin implementer. When iplug was written, lice did not exist (the original implementation used GDI+, which is why the abstraction between IGraphics and IGraphicsLice exists.).
this doesn't look like too much work at all.

oli
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:04 PM   #22
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Schwa, I don't see you on the wiki membership list and I can't for sure locate you on github.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:28 PM   #23
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Oli,

See https://github.com/b-vesco/wdl-ce/pull/2

I know we're talking about somewhat blindly pulling all non IPlug WDL changes from Cockos. This definitely falls in that bucket. This is to get you used to the process.

Oli, please do this:
1. view the pull request at https://github.com/b-vesco/wdl-ce/pull/2
2. Feel free to comment on the code if warranted
3. On a line by itself, place the single word "Approve" or "Reject"
4. Note that I already voted with my "Approve" in a comment, you should also vote approve or reject.

Since we are the only two currently listed community managers, once you have also voted "Approve" we can consider this pull request approved. Currently I am the only merge master, I'd like to see how you feel about doing merges sometimes. First, only merge things that have been properly pull requested and peer reviewed by a majority of active community managers (you and me right now). Once you comment, we agree this can be merged. There's a button on the pull request that says, "merge help" which shows the git commands you need to run to complete the pull request. Once you run those commands you should be able to refresh the page and see the pull request is closed. Never manually close a pull request by clicking the "close" button. DO NOT close pull requests with anything other than git commands!
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:57 AM   #24
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Quote:
Currently I am the only merge master, I'd like to see how you feel about doing merges sometimes
I am happy to be a merge master too, better to try it now in case i mess it up!
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:07 AM   #25
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Quote:
I agree on the name, but with a free account our hands are tied in that regard. A good thing about got is that if the project grows to warrant more dedicated hosting it is trivial to move the whole repo with history intact.
it turns out you can get the url i suggested with a free account by creating an organisation:

see https://github.com/wdl-ce/

but since there can be a few projects the url is actually https://github.com/wdl-ce/wdl-ce !

Do you still think this is better? I think that for a community project it's nice to have a name thats not linked to a user, but as I said before, it doesn't matter that much. I will delete the forked one if you disagree.

oli
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:15 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvesco View Post
Schwa, I don't see you on the wiki membership list and I can't for sure locate you on github.
I am "schwaaa" on github. What is the wiki membership list?
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:50 PM   #27
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https://github.com/b-vesco/wdl-ce/wiki/Membership
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:22 PM   #28
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How about documentation? doxygen style: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doxygen
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Old 03-11-2011, 01:07 AM   #29
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pylorca, are you volunteering to take on a documentation effort? I can get you started with a git topic branch if you are interested.
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:42 AM   #30
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bvesco - can you explain the two new branches pr1 and pr2?

thanks,

oli
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:02 PM   #31
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Default Great Idea

Im currently using iplug and would be great to see an effort into making it more usable and with help from the devs i would contribute in ways i can mainly getting some documentation going.

-Kieran
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Old 03-11-2011, 03:40 PM   #32
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I'm quite interested in contributing to the IPlug (and WDL) community-source project.
In the past (throughout the 90's) I've built quite a bit of MIDI and music software in C++ (Windows, DOS), but have spent the past 10 years building Java and Python software for other application areas. I've decided to get back into music software, and IPlug / WDL looks like a great way to do that.

Initially, I thought perhaps I could focus on documentation (mostly doxygen-style, with additional howtos on various areas). That would dovetail nicely with my own learning process, as I knock the rust off old skills It would also be a good way to get familiar with what everyone's doing. Once I'm back up to speed, I'd love to work on improving MIDI support and whatever. There are lots of MIDI-oriented plugins I'd like to build

In addition to code, I've written lots of software docs, some for fairly large systems (2K Java classes), and am comfortable spelunking through large codebases. I've also done some open-source work (Java tooling for Eclipse) a few years back. I plan to get set up with Git, Doxygen and Visual C++ 2010 Express this weekend. (If VS 2008 is a better choice, let me know. I can also use VS 6.0 if necessary, but that seems a bit long in the tooth at this point.)

My time will be somewhat limited (I have a family and a full-time job) but I'm looking forward to contributing where I can.

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Old 03-11-2011, 10:53 PM   #33
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@olilarkin

The pr1 and pr2 are just a few branch pointers I made to facilitate easier pull request management. I noticed you haven't merged pull request 2. Do you want to do it? Click the "merge help" on the pull request and follow the instructions there. Also, I don't seem to have permission on the new wdl-ce organization to create a new team for collaborators. Is that something you can do or give me permission to do? Until we add the collaborators to a team on the new project we can't really get the ball rolling over there.

@cubits
@omijim

Sign up as collaborators on the membership wiki page.
https://github.com/audio-plugins/wdl-ce/wiki/Membership

If you want to take on a particular project, documentation or some other improvement, we can get a ticket and branch started for you and you can go to town.
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Old 03-12-2011, 02:53 AM   #34
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i tried but...

Code:
olimbp2:wdl-ce oli$ git fetch origin
olimbp2:wdl-ce oli$ git checkout -b fccb3fd origin/fccb3fd
fatal: git checkout: updating paths is incompatible with switching branches.
Did you intend to checkout 'origin/fccb3fd' which can not be resolved as commit?
olimbp2:wdl-ce oli$
any ideas? i checkedout pr2
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Old 03-12-2011, 12:29 PM   #35
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i think i merged it ok, but i'm confused because now it says:

Merge branch 'candidate' into fccb3fd

not Merge branch fccb3fd into candidate


here's what i did:

Code:
olimbp2:wdl-ce oli$ git checkout -b fccb3fd origin/pr2
Branch fccb3fd set up to track remote branch pr2 from origin.
Switched to a new branch 'fccb3fd'
olimbp2:wdl-ce oli$ git merge candidate
Already up-to-date!
Merge made by recursive.
olimbp2:wdl-ce oli$ git checkout candidate
Switched to branch 'candidate'
olimbp2:wdl-ce oli$ git merge fccb3fd
Updating 356cf12..5e402de
Fast-forward
 WDL/eel2/asm-nseel-x64.obj            |  Bin 0 -> 7282 bytes
 WDL/giflib/{authors => AUTHORS}       |    0
 WDL/giflib/{copying => COPYING}       |    0
 WDL/giflib/{changelog => ChangeLog}   |    0
 WDL/giflib/{developers => DEVELOPERS} |    0
 WDL/giflib/{readme => README}         |    0
 WDL/jnetlib/{makefile => Makefile}    |    0
 WDL/jpeglib/{readme => README}        |    0
 WDL/swell/swell-wnd.mm                |   20 +++++++++-----------
 9 files changed, 9 insertions(+), 11 deletions(-)
 create mode 100644 WDL/eel2/asm-nseel-x64.obj
 rename WDL/giflib/{authors => AUTHORS} (100%)
 rename WDL/giflib/{copying => COPYING} (100%)
 rename WDL/giflib/{changelog => ChangeLog} (100%)
 rename WDL/giflib/{developers => DEVELOPERS} (100%)
 rename WDL/giflib/{readme => README} (100%)
 rename WDL/jnetlib/{makefile => Makefile} (100%)
 rename WDL/jpeglib/{readme => README} (100%)
 mode change 100644 => 100755 WDL/swell/mac_resgen.php
olimbp2:wdl-ce oli$ git push origin candidate
Counting objects: 1, done.
Writing objects: 100% (1/1), 233 bytes, done.
Total 1 (delta 0), reused 0 (delta 0)
To git@github.com:b-vesco/wdl-ce.git
   356cf12..5e402de  candidate -> candidate
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Old 03-12-2011, 02:46 PM   #36
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It's ok, we're using git! I rewound the repo and made it look "normal" again. I also updated the pull requests wiki page with a modified script that should prevent problems with future merges.

I think we're going to have a problem with the "forked" status of the wdl-ce organization. Check out the network graph. It reflects changes in the b-vesco version separately, but as the parent, rather than it looking like I'm a contributor.

I'm going to hit the "growing pains reset button" and set up a new repo to be the parent, so my personal repo will instead let me look like a contributor rather than the owner of everything. Everyone will then fork their own repos off of it.
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Old 03-12-2011, 02:53 PM   #37
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Ok, everyone who was interested in being collaborators please go to the https://github.com/audio-plugins/wdl-ce and click the fork button. This will create your personal fork which is where you should do all your work. There are a few new wiki pages set up at the project's new home, of particular interest to collaborators would be the page about "Issues" there.
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Old 03-13-2011, 06:45 AM   #38
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https://github.com/olilarkin/wdl-ce/commits/docs

i added a branch with some basic doxygen html for iplug. Please could those of you who said you were interested in working on docs, check it out at github, and if you approve this initial version please say so on the issue page

https://github.com/audio-plugins/wdl-ce/issues#issue/6

thanks,

oli
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Old 03-13-2011, 03:33 PM   #39
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anyone fed up of using the command line for git on osx, i highly recommend tower:

http://www.git-tower.com/

now i should go to sleep :-)
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Old 03-13-2011, 08:45 PM   #40
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I have git working now (more or less) and have forked wdl-ce as requested (and also set the main wdl-ce repo as my upstream repo). My local git repo looks plausible I've also added an 'approve' comment to the github issue list. (I'd hoped to do a bit more this weekend, but we had a bit of a flood in the basement (heavy rain on a foot of snow == flood, even living on a hillside)

BTW: comment 33 seems a bit out of date: the membership wiki page is apparently now https://github.com/audio-plugins/wdl-ce/wiki/Membership
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