07-20-2022, 06:36 AM | #321 | |
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(Hint, most professional plug-in developers don't use the SDK primitives and instead build their own UIs which draw into the HWND / XWindow. I don't know the details of their code, but I don't know how would you construct something like e.g. FabFilter Pro-Q style UIs with VSTGUI?)
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07-20-2022, 07:45 AM | #322 |
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I think we're reaching the point of diminishing returns, certainly in terms of what I can contribute to this discussion. I've set out the technical reasons (and reservations) I have - and I don't expect to change anyone's mind, just give (hopefully) an informed perspective from a developer point of view.
Personally I would recommend that anyone sufficiently interested should look at the available plug-in SDK options, its entirely possible that in doing so you will come up with some radical insights, but its also possible that you will gain an understanding of why the existng APIs do things the way they do. My personal bet is that we will see CLAP evolve (and I really hope they also change the name, please, seriously) and that quite possibly as more developers become involved and a greater understanding of different and varied use cases occurs, it may eventually just converge to something like VST3 or LV2 anyway. There is often a lot of hype around new solutions to perceived shortcomings, new standards, SDKs, APIs etc - and that has certainly been true here - but there are (often subtle) reasons why the existing solutions are designed the way they are. It's generally safe to assume that no experienced developer starts out with the notion of 'I'll deliberately design a bad solution to this problem', and that's worth considering for anyone who believes it to be the case with the existing plug-in APIs. It's quite possible you just haven't appreciated why it is how it is.
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07-20-2022, 10:10 AM | #323 | |
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I do see that this might result in performance degradation as everything would need to be multi-platform aware. No problem with me, as this is just the GUI thread and will (at least hopefully) not affect audio performance . -Michael |
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07-20-2022, 10:55 AM | #324 |
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I'm done. VST3 works just fine for me right now.
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07-20-2022, 11:44 AM | #325 | |
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07-20-2022, 05:22 PM | #326 | ||
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07-20-2022, 11:03 PM | #327 | |
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-Michael (recently having played with doing VST3 with JUCE and did consider such issues ) |
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07-21-2022, 02:48 AM | #328 |
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i am working on a collection of plugins, and will initially release them in clap format only, and for linux (mac/win people have enough plugins already, haven't they?).. i do have partially working vst2/3 adapters, but i'm in no hurry to work more on them.. depends on the response, maybe.. there are also other (and probably much better) wrappers in progress, so i might wait for those instead..
plus, i also ported a bunch of (20+) plugins from other formats (ladspa, jesusonic, etc) or other platforms, to clap/linux, to see if the mip2 framework was getting 'good enough' or not.. (the plugins will be released when i feel the recently added opengl gui is in a bit better shape) the clap era has just begun.. :-)
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07-21-2022, 05:11 AM | #329 | |
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For a beginner, what would be a good way to learn? |
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07-21-2022, 06:15 AM | #330 |
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I just hope someone will create a "Clapper" plugin. I miss that Roland Hand Clapper sound from the 80s . . .
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07-21-2022, 08:09 AM | #331 |
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you mean a beginner in plugin development, or clap specifically? i guess it depends on your coding preferences and stuff.. (i personally like to go as low level as i can, but most others like it a little bit more higher level, i guess).. i don't have much more advice than just jump into it.. it's easier than you think! :-) .. wade through the links on http://cleveraudio.org/, like the the examples there, and you will probably find somewhere nice to start..
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07-21-2022, 08:13 AM | #332 | |
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Thank you for the link. I will take a look on it. |
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07-21-2022, 10:43 AM | #333 | |
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07-21-2022, 12:42 PM | #334 |
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I know, but (AFAIR) the GUI libraries are not thread save, nonetheless.
Several years ago I worked with the Lazarus team, who provide a very versatile multi-platform GUI library (Windows, MAC, GTK, QT, ...) with a common API for the user code. Something similar might be desirable for plugins. -Michael Last edited by mschnell; 07-21-2022 at 12:48 PM. |
07-21-2022, 01:48 PM | #335 | |
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08-02-2022, 03:57 AM | #336 |
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So I mentioned in another thread, just for fun I decided to see what all the fuss is really about - and there is now a CLAP compatible version of the ACM-3SA plugin available to download:
https://www.acmt.co.uk/products/download-acm-3sa/ Only tested in Bitwig so far (which seems a bit odd to be mentioning on the Reaper forum) so YMMV - but Bitwig seems to be the 'reference' (only?) host at the moment
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08-02-2022, 04:00 AM | #337 |
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Check the pre-release forum
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08-02-2022, 04:09 AM | #338 |
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Thanks - that's interesting - we can only really test with official releases at the moment (you can imagine that trying to test a new build of a new plug-in format against a host that might also have issues would be something of a challenge - especially when the SDK documentation and / or examples are not exactly complete, so there's some educated guesswork involved)
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08-02-2022, 04:36 AM | #339 | |
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08-02-2022, 05:04 AM | #340 | |
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Fundamentally it's just putting the same stuff into a different bucket.
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08-02-2022, 07:50 AM | #341 | |
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Again, thank you! For your Plugins, for your work and for your informations. |
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08-02-2022, 11:14 AM | #342 | |
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It took me longer than a day to get something ported to CLAP, but that includes tracking down the SDK and other related resources from various KVR forums and githubs around the internet, building a C++ interface from the CLAP C API to my existing (C++) toolkit(s), a proof of concept plug-in, and then finally a port of an existing one. (I realise there is a C++ 'glue' layer provided, but it worked out more efficient to build my own, rather than a glue layer for the glue layer etc) I figured I'd done enough talking about it - and the best way to get a further insight was to port a plug-in. (I should caution at this point that it has come to light that there appears an issue when removing the CLAP plug-in from a Reaper session, in Reaper +dev0801 however I believe this will be fixed in the next Reaper pre-release - I used Bitwig as a kind of 'reference' host during development and that seems fine)
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08-02-2022, 11:44 AM | #343 | |
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08-02-2022, 12:49 PM | #344 | |
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08-02-2022, 12:51 PM | #345 | |
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08-02-2022, 04:35 PM | #346 |
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It is what it is - I thought since I'd been discussing it here - and there has been a lot of hype about it, I ought to actually try using it. Interesting technical diversion. Same old stuff in a different bucket basically
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08-03-2022, 12:14 AM | #347 |
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But finally not owned
Last edited by fabio77; 08-03-2022 at 03:55 AM. |
08-03-2022, 12:34 AM | #348 |
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This video has been posted by someone in the KVR Forum (about minute 33:28):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhGDCNxZP9s&t=1942sa |
08-03-2022, 01:19 AM | #349 |
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Just as well that they plan to use the graphics card to process the audio, because with HTML GUIs running in a browser there probably won't be any CPU left
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08-03-2022, 01:33 PM | #350 |
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@mike
You can add your plugin to the CLAP database I guess. There are listed even beta versions. https://clapdb.tech/ Don't know if you want to. But if, tell it to this thread: https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewt...ac391#p8486220 or here, and I will post it. |
08-23-2022, 04:33 PM | #351 |
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New plugin in Clap format : Fluctus (FM synth)
Looks good ! https://bedroomproducersblog.com/202...nakst-fluctus/
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08-23-2022, 07:15 PM | #352 | |
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“The software is compatible with 32-bit and 64-bit Windows-based plugin hosts that are compatible with the CLAP plugin format. It is also available in the native FL Studio format.“ I suppose there’s always WINE and yabridge. We’ll find a way to make everything fit! |
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08-23-2022, 07:27 PM | #353 | ||
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EDIT: And I think it will be, if I understand it right and this is meant for windows-clap-plugins on linux Quote:
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08-24-2022, 01:17 AM | #354 |
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@audiojunkie
I think such project could really benefit on hearing some linux users to consider a port to linux, that is why even if it is win only for know, this might be a good CLAP project to know :P
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