View Poll Results: The instrumental "sweet polyphony" ...
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is overly complex
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0 |
0% |
is still audible and pleasing
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3 |
60.00% |
needs more cowbell
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2 |
40.00% |
03-07-2022, 01:23 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,586
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[piano song] "sweet polyphony"
For those interested in music theory: If you've always
wanted to know what "polyphony" really is, then you
can hear this:
Direct link: http://andy-enroe.bplaced.net/22_son..._polyphony.mp3
With animation: "Sweet Polyphony"
Note: This requires clicking the grey "play"-button.
"Polyphony" means the superimposition of two or
more independent voices. The term "independence"
indicates that each voice plays its own melody line.
In this instrumental "Sweet Polyphony" we took that to
the extreme; we wanted to see if it was possible to
design a largely polyphonic song in such a way that
it doesn't become esoterically complicated, but still
remains audible and pleasing.
But listen for yourself and tell us whether the song is
already overly complex - or whether it is still accessible
to a "normal" listener.
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03-07-2022, 11:59 AM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Krefeld, Germany
Posts: 14,784
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To me not very problematic.
We once did a version of a Jazz tune with a section featuring Bass, Sax and Piano - by some chance - playing three concurrent melodies, and then continued by a Duet of singer and (virtual) trumpet. Maybe the average listeners might be overstrained,
-> https://soundcloud.com/user-21330035...unny-valentine
-Michael
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03-07-2022, 01:02 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
To me not very problematic.
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Thank you!
If you compose the song yourself, you like to have this self-blindness.
For example, when I listen to my own/our song again after several
weeks, I'm often surprised at how bad it sounds. So here is this
question for the auditorium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mschnell
We once did a version of a Jazz tune with a section featuring Bass, Sax and Piano - by some chance - playing three concurrent melodies, and then continued by a Duet of singer and (virtual) trumpet. Maybe the average listeners might be overstrained,
-Michael
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Due to the airiness and lasciviousness, the melody lines
don't get in each other's way, sounds really good.
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03-10-2022, 08:55 AM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,098
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Doesn't sound over complicated to me, but then I like complicated music, so . . .
I like the trade off of the piano voices too.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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03-12-2022, 02:06 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo
Doesn't sound over complicated to me, but then I like complicated music, so . . .
I like the trade off of the piano voices too.
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Thank you, Glennbo!
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05-14-2022, 08:57 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 9,098
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I like the new mix. I switched to mixing everything LCR a few years ago, and have found there is more definition due to less competition for space.
__________________
Glennbo
Hear My Music - Click Me!!!
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05-23-2022, 03:04 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Racine / MKE
Posts: 469
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I liked it a lot. i think i did this in one od my sings last year with guitars. bass doing chord progression, 2 guitars doing 2 different lead lines. i had no clue it had a name.
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05-23-2022, 11:50 AM
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#9
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: United Kingdom, T. Wells
Posts: 2,454
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Structure-wise to me it seems a bit undefined.
Piano lacks any dynamics whatsoever as if midi-events (notes) are at one velocity all across the song\composition.
Soma samples or soundbanks are great as they sound, strings and such.
Overall mix is pretty basic.
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05-24-2022, 12:36 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 194
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Quite interesting. Begs the question: was each melody line created on its own, separately from the others, or did you layer new melodies on top as you listened to the others?
As I'm listening, a potentially intriguing project occurred....record a chord structure / sequence, give it to several musicians separately, asking each to provide a melody line only. Then play them together, with proper mixing / adjustments etc. Would it clash in places, clash altogether, or fascinate?
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05-25-2022, 12:19 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enroe
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Please add new mixes to the OP.
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05-25-2022, 12:24 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,203
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As a music theory illiterate I didn't find it complicated or complex.
I liked the voices around 3.00. Could experiment more there IMHO.
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06-11-2022, 10:22 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo
I like the new mix. I switched to mixing everything LCR a few years ago, and have found there is more definition due to less competition for space.
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Yeah - hard left-right panning takes some getting used to, at least in
headphones. But most listeners have their speakers somewhere in the
room - and then hard panning helps to create a sense of space at all.
That's why I prefer hard panning.
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06-11-2022, 10:22 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41TWIN
I liked it a lot. i think i did this in one od my sings last year with guitars. bass doing chord progression, 2 guitars doing 2 different lead lines. i had no clue it had a name.
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I'm glad you like it. "Polyphony" challenges the listener a little
more. But I also find that kind of songs more interesting.
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06-11-2022, 10:25 PM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pashkuli
Structure-wise to me it seems a bit undefined.
Piano lacks any dynamics whatsoever as if midi-events (notes) are at one velocity all across the song\composition.
Soma samples or soundbanks are great as they sound, strings and such.
Overall mix is pretty basic.
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Thanks for your opinion. I will check your associations about
the piano carefully. I really think piano is one of the hardest
instruments to play - though there are only keys.
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07-08-2022, 01:48 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger
... or did you layer new melodies on top as you listened to the others?
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Of course I listened to the existing melody line while developing a
new one. Nevertheless, it's difficult because you have to detach
yourself from the existing melody line - and instead have to
"rethink".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stinger
... give it to several musicians separately, asking each to provide a melody line only.
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Haha, yes - a very interesting idea!
Maybe we could even organize that here in the forum: We give a
fixed chord progression - and anyone who wants can develop a
melody for it.
To be honest, I think that very few melodies really fit together.
Because despite the apparent independence of two melody lines,
these two still have to refer to each other so that they fit
together.
The composition of e.g. "Sweet Polyphony" has taken a while
because the polyphonic lines have to fit together, not too
many dissonances have to occur at the same time, the tension
curve within the tone sequence has to be consistent, etc. ...
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07-08-2022, 01:49 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msundh
As a music theory illiterate I didn't find it complicated or complex.
I liked the voices around 3.00. Could experiment more there IMHO.
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Thank you for your time listening to this song.
Yes, the voices at the end are supposed to be the climax
of the tension. And that in an "instrumental"!
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07-11-2022, 12:28 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eastern shore of Maryland, USA
Posts: 1,484
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I know little music theory, but I still enjoy Bach's counterpoint, complex as it is. Obviously, in comparison, your composition is not overly complex in terms of note patterns and harmonies. It is pleasant piece of music. I would argue that the midi performance is actually lacking in complexity in certain ways. There are different kinds of complexity in music. A piece of music that I have listened to over and over is a recording of the old delta blues singer Sun House singing John the Revelator, where he is accompanied only by handclapping. I've never tired of the nuances of articulation and timing in his delivery. I'm still trying to figure out what makes his singing so darn fascinating to me, and I think that I haven't figured it out because it is so complex in its own way. I've heard people on the Reaper website include Midi/synthesized instrument performances that are incredibly nuanced in articulation and dynamics, and there is a high level of complexity in this that your instrumental tracks lack. I guess that what I am trying to say is that you have reached point in terms of complexity of melody and harmony where are you need to match that in terms of complexity in timbre, articulation. and dynamics. Then we listeners will be more fully able to appreciate your composition as a recording.
T
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07-12-2022, 11:06 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Kalispell
Posts: 14,759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enroe
But listen for yourself and tell us whether the song is
already overly complex - or whether it is still accessible
to a "normal" listener.
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I didn't particularly care for the sound of the piano, but I liked where everything went, and like Glennbo, I didn't find anything confusing about it. Overall, it sounded pretty good.
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08-05-2022, 08:14 AM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tspring
I know little music theory, but I still enjoy Bach's counterpoint, complex as it is. Obviously, in comparison, your composition is not overly complex in terms of note patterns and harmonies. It is pleasant piece of music. I would argue that the midi performance is actually lacking in complexity in certain ways. There are different kinds of complexity in music. A piece of music that I have listened to over and over is a recording of the old delta blues singer Sun House singing John the Revelator, where he is accompanied only by handclapping. I've never tired of the nuances of articulation and timing in his delivery. I'm still trying to figure out what makes his singing so darn fascinating to me, and I think that I haven't figured it out because it is so complex in its own way. I've heard people on the Reaper website include Midi/synthesized instrument performances that are incredibly nuanced in articulation and dynamics, and there is a high level of complexity in this that your instrumental tracks lack. I guess that what I am trying to say is that you have reached point in terms of complexity of melody and harmony where are you need to match that in terms of complexity in timbre, articulation. and dynamics. Then we listeners will be more fully able to appreciate your composition as a recording.
T
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Thank you for your differentiated assessment and perception! I
think I understand what you want to express. Only if I know my
limits and my weaknesses can I work on them and move forward.
Also, one must remember that each instrument has its specific
range of expression and articulations. The human voice is
particularly yielding and variable.
In this sense: Special thanks for your thoughts on complexity,
articulation and "Sweet Polyphony".
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08-20-2022, 02:00 AM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod
I didn't particularly care for the sound of the piano, but I liked where everything went, and like Glennbo, I didn't find anything confusing about it. Overall, it sounded pretty good.
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Thank you Tod!
Also your comment will be much appreciated!
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08-20-2022, 02:13 AM
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#22
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Banned
Join Date: Apr 2022
Posts: 635
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Quote:
That's why I prefer hard panning.
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Hey- well this is quite interesting..it has all the elements, #but! -to me it does actually just "sound" like a un_finalized_midi recording?
There is a trick with hard panning.. set both l/r to like 98/99% and you will get a bit of mid back in the mix.
Maybe if you worked a little more on different tonal properties,cohesion and touch of dynamic processing could really bring this to a more completed "whole".
Just a pennies worth...piece is nice otherwise.
Thanks4sharing.
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09-08-2022, 12:55 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,586
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reapology
Hey- well this is quite interesting..it has all the elements, #but! -to me it does actually just "sound" like a un_finalized_midi recording?
There is a trick with hard panning.. set both l/r to like 98/99% and you will get a bit of mid back in the mix.
Maybe if you worked a little more on different tonal properties,cohesion and touch of dynamic processing could really bring this to a more completed "whole".
Just a pennies worth...piece is nice otherwise.
Thanks4sharing.
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Thank you Reapology!
It's very interesting to see the different perceptions and associations
on such an instrumental. We take your criticism and suggestions very
seriously. Thanks for that!
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