v5.92 Waves Tune Rewire plugin - Take FX vs Track FX

[Nonlinear]

I have come across a significant discovery regarding the use of Waves Tune in Reaper.

Waves Tune requires the companion plugin "Waves Rewire" to be used to provide synchronization between the plugin and the DAW. Normally this is no big deal but in Reaper we have both "Track FX" and clip-based "Take FX" which seems to cause trouble for the Waves Tune/Waves Rewire combo.

Here's my discovery - Waves Rewire used as Take FX gives different results than when used as Track FX. It seems to be an issue of scope, i.e., the Rewire plugin and the Tune plugin have to be used together as a pair in the same plugin chain (Track FX or Take FX).

I had the Rewire plugin set up as a Track FX on a dedicated track as part of my project template thinking it was acting as a "global" rewire timing link for whenever it was needed. I was then using Waves Tune as Take FX on individual vocal clips.

When I rendered the vocal tracks as STEMs (at the "Track FX" level) this worked great - but when I rendered the tracks as "new takes" (at the clip/take level) the processing timing was off. The audio was in the right place but the pitch effect timing was off - meaning the Tune plugin was getting the wrong timing signals from Rewire.

On a hunch I tried inserting the Rewire plugin directly alongside Waves Tune - as another "Take FX" - on a vocal clip. This time the clip rendered as a "new take" perfectly!

So my question now is, since everything in Reaper is in sync why does it matter where you put the Rewire plugin?

[Nonlinear]

I think what I have stumbled upon here is a very complicated problem.

Many plugins today require cross-communication with companion plugins on other tracks and channels. Rewire, Izotope Neutron, Revoice Pro, and Blue Cat's Gain Suite are some examples of these types of plugins.

These plugins do not seem to work right in Reaper when intermixed as Track FX and Take FX.

Perhaps it's due to Plugin Delay Compensation and how it is being handled in Reaper. I think what's happening is that PDC is being applied to the plugin in general (including cross-track control signals) when it should only be applied to the audio streams. Creating a new set of streams to handle control signals vs audio makes it very complicated - but appears necessary.

This, IMHO, is a DAW programmer's nightmare and I wouldn't know where to begin - but these plugins are becoming more common so it needs to be addressed. Perhaps in the meantime it would be best to avoid using these plugins as TAKE FX.

[pipelineaudio]

Any solution to this? I just ended up not using rewire and it ends up in the right place in time

[MonkeyBars]

This is likely due to the fact that Reaper does not yet support flexible routing in its Take FX (despite what the routing help popup used to state, which was changed at my behest). Specifically, Take FX are ALWAYS before Track FX everywhere and always. It's possible they are addressing this at the moment with the dev branch reconfiguring internal pin management (we hope).

Such an upgrade would be a big help making Take FX more useful, for example: sidechaining a compressor on a take with a signal from a track is not possible currently, even if you route it through the right channels into the take FX, because track signals are without exception later in the signal path than Take FX.