Nuendo Randomizer

Ice · 10-11-2018, 09:08 AM

I was just shown this feature in Nuendo 8 called "Randomizer" and its just the kind of thing I want to use a LOT in sound effect creation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGuZzGkSZIU

Is this kind of thing doable in Reaper at all or am I going to have to learn another DAW?

_Stevie_ · 10-11-2018, 02:29 PM

There's this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wR8OZtNbAE

Ice · 10-11-2018, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Stevie_

There's this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wR8OZtNbAE

Thanks I'd seen that and forgotten about it.

Its a start for sure but I'm going to want to give the Randomizer in Nuendo a try unless we get something that can do other things like the "timing", "impact", "color" etc.. Its very interesting what that thing is doing to the clips.

Compared to Pro Tools I consider Reaper very fluid and flexible, but that Randomizer in Nuendo is bumping things up another notch.

Pitch and volume are a start though. For what I want to do panning isn't usually a player.

_Stevie_ · 10-12-2018, 05:13 AM

Actually, it would not be that hard to code something like the Randomizer. However, it would need a GUI.
Lokasenna's GUI would be ideal for that. Unfortunately, I have never used it and I have very little time at the moment, otherwise, I'd take care of it. Maybe you can request it in the script request thread?

Xenakios · 10-12-2018, 06:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Stevie_

Actually, it would not be that hard to code something like the Randomizer. However, it would need a GUI.
Lokasenna's GUI would be ideal for that. Unfortunately, I have never used it and I have very little time at the moment, otherwise, I'd take care of it. Maybe you can request it in the script request thread?

The problem in implementing it only with ReaScript is that it's too complicated to do dynamically changing audio processing within the individual media items which the Nuendo feature clearly does. (It doesn't just randomize some audio parameters for the whole item, it seems to be analyzing changes in the sound and then randomizing those detected segments.) Also the formant/timbre manipulation is not available as a media item/take property in Reaper. (ReaPitch allows doing it with some of the Elastique modes, but it would be quite a pain to deal with that in ReaScript code...)

I would find it useful to have a feature like the Nuendo one for my own use. I am now looking at implementing a hybrid ReaScript/C++ solution but I won't promise anything comes out of this...I certainly won't be switching over to Nuendo and pay $$$$ to get access to that feature.

(The idea is that the sound analysis and processing is done in C++. The GUI and audio parameters randomization would be done in script code.)

The Byre · 10-12-2018, 07:27 AM

I cannot imagine a single instance where this feature could be of any use within a DAW. Within a game engine, maybe, but not in a DAW.

It is of no use for music, it cannot be used for TV and film post - no, I'm stuck. I can't think of a single instance!

Gun fire for example has to be pitched and panned to the size and position of the gun.

Seriously, I don't see the point!

RobinGShore · 10-12-2018, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Byre

I cannot imagine a single instance where this feature could be of any use within a DAW. Within a game engine, maybe, but not in a DAW.

It is of no use for music, it cannot be used for TV and film post - no, I'm stuck. I can't think of a single instance!

Gun fire for example has to be pitched and panned to the size and position of the gun.

Seriously, I don't see the point!

The point of this seems pretty obvious. It makes random variations so you have more source material to work with when creating or editing sounds. Game audio is definitely the most obvious use case, but I can absolutely see this being useful for tv/film post and music as well.

Any way, I think this looks great. The video refers to Randomizer as a VST 3 plugin, so maybe it would work in Reaper? Maybe not though, I have had problems getting Nuendo's bundled VSTs to work with Reaper in the past.

EpicSounds · 10-12-2018, 09:42 AM

The Nuendo randomizer is what inspired to me to make that video, I think the scripts are a good place to start with replicating those functions.

You could also use samplers like Kontakt or Weaponiser or as mentioned earlier, a game engine to create variations from one-shots. I'm sure I'm not saying anything you don't already know ICE.

The Byre · 10-12-2018, 09:52 AM

No, I'm still stuck!

I mean, if you are adding footsteps in the haunted castle, Foleys has to be the only way to go. And it's not as if there is a shortage of FX libraries!

I still think that this is a solution looking for a problem to solve!

Right now, there is a temptation for DAW coders to add pointless features that are just derivatives of existing features - a sort of digital rearranging of the deckchairs on the Titanic. ProTools has to be the worst offender, as it has coughed up nothing new for over ten years, but keeps on repackaging old features.

This is just adding a nice and far too pretty GUI to existing functions found elsewhere. If Nuendo want to get the post market, they need to get rid of the stupid 'edit' window that one has to open every time one wants to alter anything.

Spectral editing, deeper integration of video - these are the sorts of things that we need. Not another old function, repackaged!

Ice · 10-12-2018, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EpicSounds

The Nuendo randomizer is what inspired to me to make that video, I think the scripts are a good place to start with replicating those functions.

You could also use samplers like Kontakt or Weaponiser or as mentioned earlier, a game engine to create variations from one-shots. I'm sure I'm not saying anything you don't already know ICE.

Thanks for making that video!

I don't have access to a video game engine for what I do (film sound effect creation) and even if I did its implementation would probably be too tedious and minimize the benefit.

I have used Kontakt and tools like S-Layer for randomization. They're great tools for one-shots but I'm intrigued beyond one-shots. I'm constantly working to get random bits of movement and other variations with more natural (less predictable) shapes than the typical LFO. The wacky modulation shapes inside some of the Meldaproduction plugins have been great and I use them every day.

I especially like how that Randomizer applies changes to clips, so once applied/set it'll play back the same. You get the benefit of random ideas, with the solid repeatable playback to continue working with.

These sorts of variations would sound awful applied to music or dialog. And its not for a mix, but at the ground floor of making new and unexpected sound effects, or the building blocks of those. I don't pretend its for everybody, but it would be great for me!

introvert · 10-24-2018, 09:38 AM

I could see a lot of use for it too. Working in games, we do some of this with pitch and volume modulation in-engine, but as Ice points out, this would be great for generating variants of source material to then be cut into a composite. It's a shame it's tied to Nuendo, I'm not willing to pay $1800 and upend my workflow for it. But it would be nice.

Maybe the Unfiltered Audio folks could make something like this.