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Old 01-14-2020, 11:22 AM   #1
Codeseven
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Default Recording real drums - Recommend a Plug-in

Hi all, thanks for the help.

I have my drum kit micíed up into several tracks (Snare, Bass, Toms, Overhead) in Reaper. Iíd like to manipulate each track to my liking. Can you recommend a single Drum Plug-in, free or paid, that I can use for most if not all of my drum needs? Thanks
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:20 PM   #2
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what are your drum needs?

compression, gate, eq, reverb are all commonly used on drums - zillions of choices - if you are looking for an all-in-one solution then maybe you want to be looking for a channel strip or something? But bear in mind that a cymbal is normally treated differently to a kick drum, for example, so you are unlikely to find a plugin that does everything you want for all sources, i would think.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:54 PM   #3
Codeseven
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what are your drum needs?

compression, gate, eq, reverb are all commonly used on drums - zillions of choices - if you are looking for an all-in-one solution then maybe you want to be looking for a channel strip or something? But bear in mind that a cymbal is normally treated differently to a kick drum, for example, so you are unlikely to find a plugin that does everything you want for all sources, i would think.
Thanks Domzy.

Being a newb I'm hoping for an 'all in one' Plug-in that lets me select a kit piece, ie Snare, then use it to manipulate the sounds for the recorded Snare track. Maybe when a specific kit piece is selected it would not only have the usual EQ, Comp, Reverb, but also allow you to select a type, size, manufacturer, model ect. Perfect for a newbie.

Probably wishful thinking
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:59 PM   #4
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type, size, manufacturer, model etc.
Of what?
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:20 PM   #5
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Of what?
Hi ErBird.

With the Snare as an example, such as size, 14x7, Sonor, wood, etc.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:23 PM   #6
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I think there's a conflation of terms, if you are recording real drums with mics then you manipulate those with compressors, EQs and so on. But when you say I want to pick sonar blah blah blah... You are not describing real drums but a drum VSTi with it's own samples and those being triggered by MIDI.

The only way to have both is to have the audio from your real drums to trigger sampled drums etc. by essentially turning your real drum hits into midi notes that in turn trigger the drum VSTi sampler/plugin etc. etc.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:32 PM   #7
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I think there's a conflation of terms, if you are recording real drums with mics then you manipulate those with compressors, EQs and so on. But when you say I want to pick sonar blah blah blah... You are not describing real drums but a drum VSTi with it's own samples and those being triggered by MIDI.

The only way to have both is to have the audio from your real drums to trigger sampled drums etc. by essentially turning your real drum hits into midi notes that in turn trigger the drum VSTi sampler/plugin etc. etc.
Ah, your right, my bad. Confusion on my part, sorry.

So, can something like Superior Drummer be selected in Reaper as an AU or VST, then the hits on the recorded Snare track trigger the snare in Superior drummer?
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:43 PM   #8
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Hi ErBird.

With the Snare as an example, such as size, 14x7, Sonor, wood, etc.
Ok, interesting. Your original post makes it seem like you want to use your own recorded drum sounds. Do you want to layer in samples or replace the sound completely? Of course it's all possible, but maybe not ideal timing-wise if you're not using MIDI triggers.

There are plugins that you can put on an audio track to detect drum hits and send out a MIDI note to any VSTi. If you have a mic-per-drum this would be much better than having to filter a single mic track. That never works quite right.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:50 PM   #9
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Thanks Domzy.

Being a newb I'm hoping for an 'all in one' Plug-in that lets me select a kit piece, ie Snare, then use it to manipulate the sounds for the recorded Snare track. Maybe when a specific kit piece is selected it would not only have the usual EQ, Comp, Reverb, but also allow you to select a type, size, manufacturer, model ect. Perfect for a newbie.

Probably wishful thinking
not entirely, i'm pretty sure there are some plugins that do offer something similar to the first bit - the waves producer packs certainly used to - Waves CLA, Maserati, JJP etc. though i can't comment on their quality.
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:56 PM   #10
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for triggering there is drumagog

https://www.drumagog.com/
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Old 01-14-2020, 01:58 PM   #11
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Sorry guys, I'm totally confusing the subject, my bad.

Simply put, I recorded my drum kit, each kit piece with it's own mic, onto multiple tracks in Reaper. Now that I have done so, I'm looking to adjust each kit piece's sound. Forget the Superior Drummer thoughts. I can use the many built in Fx already already in Reaper or, I was looking to download an all in one 'Drum Plug-In' that has all the kit pieces built in (Snare, Bass, Cymbals) that I can select depending on the kit piece sound I'm working on.

Probably doesn't exist but I'm just throwing it out there.

Thanks
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:02 PM   #12
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Probably doesn't exist but I'm just throwing it out there.
If I understand then the closest I can think of is something like this:

https://www.waves.com/plugins/cla-dr...SAAEgKfcfD_BwE

Where you would place the same plugin on each drum track then select the type of drum that it is per track.
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Old 01-14-2020, 02:08 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
If I understand then the closest I can think of is something like this:

https://www.waves.com/plugins/cla-dr...SAAEgKfcfD_BwE

Where you would place the same plugin on each drum track then select the type of drum that it is per track.
That was my impression, that OP is looking for grouped effect "presets" that would apply to both the type of drum, and hoping for these presets to drill down further to have settings for specific sizes, brands, and/or construction methods.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:18 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
If I understand then the closest I can think of is something like this:

https://www.waves.com/plugins/cla-dr...SAAEgKfcfD_BwE

Where you would place the same plugin on each drum track then select the type of drum that it is per track.
Yes! Thank you, karbomusic.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:20 PM   #15
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That was my impression, that OP is looking for grouped effect "presets" that would apply to both the type of drum, and hoping for these presets to drill down further to have settings for specific sizes, brands, and/or construction methods.
Exactly. Sorry I didnít get that across to begin with. Thanks for hanging in there guys.
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:32 PM   #16
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Exactly. Sorry I didnít get that across to begin with. Thanks for hanging in there guys.
Yeah, that doesn't exist. There are too many variables in how drums are tuned, played and mic'd up. Plus, it would just be EQ and compression anyway.

What kind of drum sound are you going for?
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Old 01-14-2020, 03:43 PM   #17
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Yeah, that doesn't exist. There are too many variables in how drums are tuned, played and mic'd up. Plus, it would just be EQ and compression anyway.

What kind of drum sound are you going for?
I was looking for something along the lines of the suggested Waves Plug-In. Where a newbie can simply click on ĎSnareí and be given several parameters to manipulate and/or preset snare drums to choose from.
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Old 01-15-2020, 06:37 AM   #18
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I was reading through this and have to admit to being a little confused too. But someone mentioned Drumagog, and that's what I've been using for many years to do drum sample replacement. It sounds like that's what Codeseven was asking about. Even if it's not helpful to Codeseven, my response might be interesting to someone else.

For the simple purpose of changing the sound of a snare, or a kick, or a tom, into a different sounding snare, or kick, or tom, Drumagog works really well. It comes with a lot of excellent sample/GOG files. I don't know if it's still available, but Steven Slate had released a set of sample/GOG files many years ago that I still use to this day (more in the vein of hard rock or metal or classic rock). I think Slate has their own version of a drum sample replacer, so those samples are likely included there. You can make your own GOG files too using WAV samples that you recorded yourself. Drumagog's sample library includes some drum machine sounds which would be great for hip hop or techno.

Drumagog can work one of two ways: it has it's own built-in transient detection algorithm that works in real time (meaning it does it's thing during playback as it's "listening" to the recorded track) or you can trigger it with a MIDI file. I've used it both ways and prefer the MIDI file option. Creating a MIDI file/item from the transients of the original audio item gives you better accuracy of placement and control of the volume of each hit. Drumagog's own detection system is often not in perfect alignment. Mis-triggers would be a deal breaker for anyone I would think. But that means you have to create a MIDI item for each drum track. A little tedious but worth the effort in the long run.

I often just use Drumagog to embellish the original sound, but I also use it for flat out replacement. It can be a lifesaver for kits that don't sound so good to begin with. I rarely have any say about what a client brings into my studio so I'm forced to do the best I can with the options I have available to me. Anyway... I hope this helps.
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Old 01-15-2020, 07:54 AM   #19
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Bass Professor Mk2 works great on drum tracks. It's perfect for tweaking individual drum sounds. It's basically a 7 band compressor with a 'dirt' control if you want to dirty up the sound a bit. Pretty low CPU load, too, for what it does.
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Old 01-15-2020, 09:29 AM   #20
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I have to mix a multitracked drum kit and I get one single plugin to choose?

Alright. ReaEQ then.

I know I'm gonna need to adjust/restrict some areas on something in most of those mics (as you do). Wouldn't be able to do much with anything else - certainly not compression hyped anything - without that starting point. Properly balanced drums could certainly be called finished just at that point though!
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:20 AM   #21
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Thanks guys, I appreciate the reply’s. Thank you Larry for the thorough explanation.

Currently looking at three plugins from Waves. These three plugins appear to be pretty newb friendly. Though, there are some discussions saying Waves is outdated and offerings from Slate or UAW are superior nowadays. I don’t know. I’ll look at they’re drum plugins and to see if any of them appear as idiot proof as the Waves ones do.

https://www.waves.com/plugins/cla-drums

https://www.waves.com/plugins/jjp-drums

https://www.waves.com/plugins/jjp-cymbals-percussion

All three can be found in a substantially cheaper bundle.

https://www.waves.com/bundles/signat...bass-and-drums


Drumagog is now on version 5 and has a Demo that I’ll try, thanks for the suggestion.

https://www.drumagog.com/


Perhaps after awhile of using the more simple plugins I’ll have learned enough to move on to the more mainstream offerings.
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Old 01-15-2020, 12:39 PM   #22
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There are recorded drums.
There are sampled drums.

Which one is desired here? I'm not 100% sure after reading some of the posts.

If you're going after recording real drums though, a lot of it is in the drums, tuning thereof, the room, mic placement. All of those things before we even talk about the kind of mics! (Which we'll get to.)

Don't start throwing money at plugins hoping for a revelation!
Listen to your tracks. Is something wrong? What is it? Post back in the forum and ask those questions.

There isn't a 100% autopilot for recorded sound yet but there are powerful tools in the basic (and some not so basic) plugins bundled with Reaper.
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codeseven View Post
Thanks Domzy.

Being a newb I'm hoping for an 'all in one' Plug-in that lets me select a kit piece, ie Snare, then use it to manipulate the sounds for the recorded Snare track. Maybe when a specific kit piece is selected it would not only have the usual EQ, Comp, Reverb, but also allow you to select a type, size, manufacturer, model ect. Perfect for a newbie.

Probably wishful thinking
You're looking for a unicorn. It's like looking for that guitar pedal that has the "don't suck" button on it. Mic technique is what you need to learn.

If you're just starting out, gate every close mic on the system and study up on what compression does for you. Also learn about phasing and the problems it can cause.

Or better, google up "recorderman" and use that technique. You'll spend more time recording music and less time futzing with recording software.
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Old 01-15-2020, 04:32 PM   #24
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I have some of those Waves CLA and JJP plugs. They're great. If you're looking for a sort of "swiss army knife" approach to effects processing, those plugs have a lot to offer. Top of class really.

It was nice to see Waves offer up their products at prices anyone can afford. It made a nice difference in the quality of my mixes. Have fun trying out new stuff! You're on the right track. I know you'll do well.

PS - you know... Reaper's bundled plugs can probably get you in the same zone if you're willing to devote the time. They're not as fancy looking, and kind of one trick pony... but combined you can do a lot of damage lololol. I've been slowly worming my way through some of that stuff. I wish the documentation was a little better... Some of these 3rd-party plug developers create headaches for themselves, and the host DAW they're used in. I was having nothing but trouble with Waves in Samplitude. That was one of the reasons I ended up here in Reaper land. Reaper seems impervious to a lot of bad plug-programming lolol
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Old 01-16-2020, 10:33 AM   #25
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In Superior drummer from Toontrack you can import your own drum tracks/samples and manipulate them from within SD. This is also do-able in many other drum romplers. Also I have Native Instruments Battery, which does allow you to load amd manipulate all your own stuff AND name the individual cells as to what kit pieces they contain. But I don't know that any of these would be any better than forming a group in reaper for the drum tracks and doing it from within the group. Its sort of like a mini mixer...just add the plugins as you need them & save the group out.
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Old 01-16-2020, 11:15 AM   #26
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Thanks guys.

@jerome- Thatís some sage advice, I totally agree with you. Iíll research what you suggested, thanks.

@Larry- Thanks again for your replies and support. Iíll look into Reapers built in plugins too.

@ivansc- Whoa, didnít even think or know about doing the opposite. I have the older Superior Drums 2 disc set. Iím curious about importing the Ďrealí drum tracks from Reaper into SD2, interesting, thanks.
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Old Today, 11:38 AM   #27
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You could build some channel strips for each drum with the plugs and settings you like then recall (eg) the Snare one for the snare track etc. I did something like this with a session I did with a mate playing drums on 4 songs where we didn't change the setup between numbers so as I got the (eg) snare sounding sweet I saved the plugs as a template and then recalled them as I did the next track.

In fact you could go one further and save a whole project as a template with all the tracks, inputs, plugs etc all as you want them before you start tracking.

One tip - Rough Rider, a free compressor, sounds great parallel processing the drum bus.

Good luck.
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Old Today, 11:41 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerome_oneil View Post
You're looking for a unicorn. It's like looking for that guitar pedal that has the "don't suck" button on it. Mic technique is what you need to learn.

If you're just starting out, gate every close mic on the system and study up on what compression does for you. Also learn about phasing and the problems it can cause.

Or better, google up "recorderman" and use that technique. You'll spend more time recording music and less time futzing with recording software.
Agree! I use Glyn Johns which is 4 mics and great as it's easy to set up and it's been used on everyone from Led Zeppelin to the Eagles. Not by me though. 😄
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