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Old 10-11-2018, 10:37 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by 4duhwinnn View Post
What _I_ do in linux is far more impossible to do in win/mac

than what _you_ do is impossible to do in linux.

Shockingly, few people give a rip, either way.
Over the years, I've seen plenty of blowhards
come into a linux forum, trash it, proclaim their
superiority, then walk away saying 'to each their own'.
With or without a plastic smily.
You come across pretty aggressive. Bad day?
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:40 AM   #42
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Please people, don't get personal and please don't start another OS religious discussion, so far they never led to anything good
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:40 AM   #43
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I don't understand what audio editing problem Linux has?

I've edited a lot of drums (and other stuff) in reaper for linux with no more issues than I'd have in windows...

IMO the main drawbacks are the limited amount of native plugins and soundcard support.
I'm talking about tools like Melodyne, iZotope RX, etc. that I need for my everyday audio work. Others may not need them, because they work with perfect recordings and performances. Unfortunately that's not the reality for me though.

This thread is about native linux plugins/tools.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:41 AM   #44
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Please people, don't get personal and please don't start another OS religious discussion, so far they never led to anything good
+1000

And please don't put words in other people's mouths!

Linux is my favorite operating system. I can't describe how ridiculous it sounds to tell me I'm bashing Linux!
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:02 AM   #45
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I don't understand what audio editing problem Linux has?

I've edited a lot of drums (and other stuff) in reaper for linux with no more issues than I'd have in windows...

IMO the main drawbacks are the limited amount of native plugins and soundcard support.
Easy to deal with those drawbacks, compared to dealing with
windows -conan-the-barbarian- style invasions of it's users
private computers and data. And the convoluted file-systems
imposed on developers and users alike, takes a heavy toll
on creatives, musicians, or otherwise.

Any half-dozen mega-synths that work fine in wine,
surely balance out the comparative lack of native plugins.
I've spent about $1000 on no-brainer software sales
over the years, and will never scratch the surface
of their capabilities, in this life.
Cueing the reggae...wait for it........."Be Happy!"
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:04 AM   #46
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I'm talking about tools like Melodyne, iZotope RX, etc.
As I said before, I understand that you want to use those tools (I expected as much), that you are an entrenched user. Maybe lead with that instead of wide-sweeping generalizations about Linux not being a viable OS for a DAW. I don't agree with the idea of people ridiculing you, but again look at where you are and the statements you made. If you'd have said "hey why not try (this synth)" and then followed up with "I won't be using Linux for my DAW because it won't run Melodyne", I doubt you'd have an argument resulting.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:07 AM   #47
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I just looked up what a dockerfile is and I'd just assumed I'd be doing something like that if I were going to be issuing a bunch of commands in Terminal. The problem for me isn't issuing commands in sequence; it's a matter of not understanding what the commands are.
Docker is not just a scripting environment, it's a virtual execution environment (similar to a virtual machine, but using the host system's resources instead of emulating a cpu, which makes it very lightweight).

What the Dockerfile I mentioned does is create an execution environment with all the necessary dependencies to be able to compile a software project like ZynAddSubFX. You need not really know anything to use it - just do what's described in the project's README, and that's it.

Of course you must know how to run the docker container, but that's easy, too.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:11 AM   #48
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I'm talking about tools like Melodyne, iZotope RX, etc. that I need for my everyday audio work. Others may not need them, because they work with perfect recordings and performances. Unfortunately that's not the reality for me though.

This thread is about native linux plugins/tools.
Yes, this is indeed one of the main disadvantages of Linux. It's also more than understandable that people would not want to give up their tools and toys when migrating to Linux. Things like Kontakt, iZotope, Melodyne, Fabfilter, Waves, etc, etc.

There is really not a lot that can be done about this, except to wait and hope But in the meantime it's become feasible to run plugins and other software in wine, and support will become better as wine implements missing functionality and bridges improve.

IMO reaper on linux would benefit immensely from having a builtin wine vst bridge! Simplifying things for the user to the point of install your vst plugins with wine and point reaper to the directory containing the plugins. Faster load times, VST3 support, better support for realtime threads, and possibly faster execution times for monitoring through fx at low latency, etc

Personally I think that there is place for improvements to the bridges, and possibly some of it could best be made from inside of reaper itself and not really by a third party. Who knows, maybe some day

Still it's nice that it's totally possible to track and mix with windows vsts when you use high latency. I'm not sure I'd like to mix in reaper without the fabfilter plugins for instance.

IMO in this aspect the future will be far better as machines get faster, software improves, and there is also the hope that as there is more commercial interest in audio on linux, more software will be ported.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:12 AM   #49
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As I said before, I understand that you want to use those tools (I expected as much), that you are an entrenched user. Maybe lead with that instead of wide-sweeping generalizations about Linux not being a viable OS for a DAW. I don't agree with the idea of people ridiculing you, but again look at where you are and the statements you made. If you'd have said "hey why not try (this synth)" and then followed up with "I won't be using Linux for my DAW because it won't run Melodyne", I doubt you'd have an argument resulting.
Well, it always takes two ... I agree that some people may have misinterpreted my intentions due to my apparently imperfect wording. However, I am not an emotional person, and I simply don't see, why some folks need to get personal and aggressive just because they disagree with somebody else. I also wonder if those people would be like that in real life, when talking face to face.

I'm not talking about you, just to be clear.

Anyway, end of discussion. I guess everything has been said.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:18 AM   #50
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Yes, this is indeed one of the main disadvantages of Linux. It's also more than understandable that people would not want to give up their tools and toys when migrating to Linux. Things like Kontakt, iZotope, Melodyne, Fabfilter, Waves, etc, etc.

There is really not a lot that can be done about this, except to wait and hope
Yep. And I personally try not to buy any new plugins or tools that don't run on Linux. But for me that's pretty easy to say and do, as I'm more than well equipped on my Windows system.

I wish there was something more we could do to make the bigger companies give Linux a chance. That's where I am afraid not much will change any time soon.

Hope dies last.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:32 AM   #51
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I'm talking about tools like Melodyne, iZotope RX, etc. that I need for my everyday audio work. Others may not need them, because they work with perfect recordings and performances. Unfortunately that's not the reality for me though.

This thread is about native linux plugins/tools.
So in a thread about native linux plugins,
you can't resist pointing out the superiority of
wait for it........non native linux plugins.
Same old rusty saw gets played at gearslutz and kvr
a few times every year, don't need that here.
We would benefit from knowledge shared about tools
we use, rather than being lectured that linux audio tools
are a joke. You said

" it is almost 100% unusable, because there is virtually NOTHING available."

(As for melodyne, izotope, etc I'm sure Bob Dylan and Neil Young
have utilized the secretive Melodyne Pro Super Elite version to good advantage,
vocal correction being all the rage these days.)
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:52 AM   #52
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I wish there was something more we could do to make the bigger companies give Linux a chance. That's where I am afraid not much will change any time soon.

Hope dies last.
I'm a long time reaper on linux user, probably for as long as 10 years.. First in wine and now the native version. I even rewrote wineasio as I needed better

Nowadays I mostly record my band. My workflow is to render group stems which I use for backing tracks when I track new material, just to be sure of no problems Monitoring is handled by external hardware.

I also edit and mix material in reaper with quite a few plugins, like ff, ik, ni, waves, etc. I mostly work at 1024 samples buffer. This is working fine for me personally but won't be enough for everyone..

BTW, I've long failed to use melodyne in wine, but a month or two ago I got it working again. Don't know what changed.. OK, since we have no vst3 bridge we won't get the ara2 integration, but some day Still melodyne worked as it does on windows out of linux for reaper. I also tried izotope about 6 months ago, but couldn't get it working.

Still I have to admit, that booting win10 and loading a reaper project using windows vsts is a sobering experience... It runs way better and at much lower latency. Still work needs to be done in this area

But in the final analysis, it works for what I do and I'm happy and grateful to the world

We'll see what the future brings, personally I can also understand that companies would say fsck linux, freeloading users, no market, a support nightmare, etc, etc... On the other hand Steam is revolutionizing linux gaming, there are a few big name video editing programs around, etc, etc. Hopefully the bigger audio companies catch on some day too In fact waves soundgrid already run the dsp on linux servers, no gui to buy though.. superior drums is built with JUCE, so ought to be easy to port, etc, etc.
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:35 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Jack Winter
IMO reaper on linux would benefit immensely from having a builtin wine vst bridge!
I'm already feeling pretty good just having Reaper running natively on Linux, and I'm sure a lot of others will too (especially Linux users who haven't yet realized how flexible Reaper is).

If it had built-in WINE VST bridge, heads would explode.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoman
Docker is not just a scripting environment, it's a virtual execution environment ...

...just do what's described in the project's README, and that's it.
Thanks for the info! I may give that a try. When I looked up "dockerfile" it seemed people were discussing the equivalent of making a script in Notepad or something. Sometimes it's difficult to get good info on something especially in Linux (due to its relative lack of popularity, and how devs will assume people already know "the basics" of Linux).

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Originally Posted by stoman
I wish there was something more we could do to make the bigger companies give Linux a chance. That's where I am afraid not much will change any time soon.
Having Reaper native to Linux could be a significant step in that direction. I don't know of a more powerful, flexible DAW in Linux (or for any other OS). Plus it comes with a buttload of plugins, works cross-platform with all the scripts and JS plugins (greatly extending its functionality and not relying on "someone in Linux writing a Linux-based script for Reaper"), it works with native Linux VST plugins, and it can talk directly to ALSA (not even requiring JACK). Once plugin devs get wind of this, they'll have to consider what having Reaper in Linux means for them, especially if it means compiling to Linux VST along with compiling to Windows/Mac VST (perhaps not too much extra work for some devs). I might even recommend mentioning it on the forums for those companies or contacting the developers. "It's go time."
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:42 PM   #54
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I wish there was something more we could do to make the bigger companies give Linux a chance.
That would require people to use Linux based DAWs, so those big companies would see that there is a market for them to sell their plugins to. As long as folks don't embrace that change, neither will the big companies.

Windows/Mac only vendors ain't getting any more of my money!
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Old 10-11-2018, 12:55 PM   #55
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Having Reaper native to Linux could be a significant step in that direction. I don't know of a more powerful, flexible DAW in Linux (or for any other OS). Plus it comes with a buttload of plugins, works cross-platform with all the scripts and JS plugins (greatly extending its functionality and not relying on "someone in Linux writing a Linux-based script for Reaper"), it works with native Linux VST plugins, and it can talk directly to ALSA (not even requiring JACK). Once plugin devs get wind of this, they'll have to consider what having Reaper in Linux means for them, especially if it means compiling to Linux VST along with compiling to Windows/Mac VST (perhaps not too much extra work for some devs). I might even recommend mentioning it on the forums for those companies or contacting the developers. "It's go time."
The native plugins that come with REAPER are top notch, and unfortunately it took me too many years to figure that out, but since I now use them first unless I really need something they don't offer, switching to Linux was easier for me.

I actually find it somewhat liberating being free of the tethered feeling I had with Windows. Very much like when I stopped using Cakewalk Sonar and the handful of tethered plugins I used with it.

I also felt liberated when switching to 64 bit from 32 bit Windows, and all my DX/DXi plugins would no longer work.

Suddenly I was dependent primarily on myself, and my own talents, and not dependent on some plugin that I believed made me sound good.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:00 PM   #56
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The native plugins that come with REAPER are top notch, and unfortunately it took me too many years to figure that out, but since I now use them first unless I really need something they don't offer, switching to Linux was easier for me.

I actually find it somewhat liberating being free of the tethered feeling I had with Windows. Very much like when I stopped using Cakewalk Sonar and the handful of tethered plugins I used with it.

I also felt liberated when switching to 64 bit from 32 bit Windows, and all my DX/DXi plugins would no longer work.

Suddenly I was dependent primarily on myself, and my own talents, and not dependent on some plugin that I believed made me sound good.
I got the same feeling when I was considering migrating to Linux, going through my list of plugins and thinking "which of these do I care about?" Most of the Windows-only ones got the axe fairly quickly. Having Airwindows plugins as native Linux VST played a role in that.
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Old 10-11-2018, 01:17 PM   #57
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I got the same feeling when I was considering migrating to Linux, going through my list of plugins and thinking "which of these do I care about?" Most of the Windows-only ones got the axe fairly quickly. Having Airwindows plugins as native Linux VST played a role in that.
I've not yet tried any of the Airwave plugins, mostly because I keep doing tests and tweaking around with other things. Which of his plugins do you find the most useful, and what do they do specifically.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:42 PM   #58
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I've not yet tried any of the Airwave plugins, mostly because I keep doing tests and tweaking around with other things. Which of his plugins do you find the most useful, and what do they do specifically.
Airwindows.

That's a big conversation. Some of the most useful plugins are things you'd never seen before, like "Righteous" for instance. If you go by his simple description (in the included TXT file in the archive of VST plugins), you'd probably miss its point entirely. Its default setting is probably the worst, too. Anyway that one, for example: it's very useful for keeping some peak dynamics especially in the higher frequencies in a way that's different from any other plugin I've ever used. You have to look at the peak level before the plugin, decide how much headroom you want to leave for some "liveliness peaks", then adjust the "Ltarget" top slider to allow those peaks to rise above "the rest of the sound". (And the bottom slider is what you want the general output of the mix to be in terms of bit depth.) Use it on your master. Start with both sliders all the way to the right. Read the description on the plugin page and watch the video (yes I know the videos ramble and sometimes his examples are poor, but it's worthwhile).

Some of my favorites are some of the simplest plugins, like "Highpass". It's a different kind of highpass, and dynamic. Once you try it, you'll never forget it's in your list of plugins. (You wouldn't use it for every highpass duty, but you'll know why you'll be using it in the future.)

IronOxide5 sounds great to me as a tape saturation sim, my favorite actually. Like some of the plugins (BussColors, Channel6, etc.) you have to be careful of the level that hits the front of the plugin. If it's pushed too hard, it'll sound bad and you'll miss the point of the plugin (as I've noticed in some Youtube comments with people ripping on some of his plugins).

Consider most of his plugins as elements in a toolbox, not necessarily that he's trying to make each plugin to be some whiz-bang thing. I use about 10 of his plugins fairly regularly, a few of those in every mix. And I use a few more every so often. It'll depend on what sort of "mix massaging" you're after.

To get further into this conversation I'd probably have to talk on the phone about it.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:48 PM   #59
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You need not really know anything to use it - just do what's described in the project's README, and that's it.
I got ZynAddSubFX/ZynFusion compiled. Sigh. Now I have no excuse to not compile other stuff in Linux. And so it begins. THANKS A LOT.

I just copied/pasted the commands into terminal one at a time. That's after I dissected the first command (which was installing all the dependencies, since it barfed about some problems, mostly because I had newer versions of some dependances, so I just started adding things in Synaptic Package Manager instead and figured out what I needed and what I didn't). Once that was resolved, I just watched Terminal for any problems, copied/pasted each command, and then it worked out fine.

There was some folder permission error (it wouldn't create preset folders for instance) so I had to restart the "ruby" line a few times after manually making the folders/changing permissions. It was pretty easy though.
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Old 10-11-2018, 05:12 PM   #60
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Airwindows.
Too many "Air" things to remember!

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To get further into this conversation I'd probably have to talk on the phone about it.
Thanks for the rundown. Some of those sound pretty interesting, so I'll have to check them out soon. First I have a REAPER download to go get and run some tests to find out if ALSA playback has changed on my system.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:06 AM   #61
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I got ZynAddSubFX/ZynFusion compiled. Sigh. Now I have no excuse to not compile other stuff in Linux. And so it begins. THANKS A LOT.

I just copied/pasted the commands into terminal one at a time. That's after I dissected the first command (which was installing all the dependencies, since it barfed about some problems, mostly because I had newer versions of some dependances, so I just started adding things in Synaptic Package Manager instead and figured out what I needed and what I didn't). Once that was resolved, I just watched Terminal for any problems, copied/pasted each command, and then it worked out fine.

There was some folder permission error (it wouldn't create preset folders for instance) so I had to restart the "ruby" line a few times after manually making the folders/changing permissions. It was pretty easy though.
Great!

Don't forget to download all the free presets, too!
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:17 AM   #62
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Great!

Don't forget to download all the free presets, too!
Definitely. I figured there was a collection of them somewhere.
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:18 AM   #63
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I also edit and mix material in reaper with quite a few plugins, like ff, ik, ni, waves, etc. I mostly work at 1024 samples buffer. This is working fine for me personally but won't be enough for everyone..
Wait ... are you saying you can use your Waves plugins in Linux?

Quote:
BTW, I've long failed to use melodyne in wine, but a month or two ago I got it working again. Don't know what changed..
I was able to install it, but it creeps so incredibly slowly that it's unusable on my i7 with 64 GB of RAM. Perhaps there are some tweaks that need to be done regarding the wine configuration. I did not want to waste too much time, but I'd be interested if anybody knows more.

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OK, since we have no vst3 bridge we won't get the ara2 integration, but some day
I think having a native version of Melodyne and RX would be a big step. The problem is that nobody wants to take the first step.

Quote:
Still I have to admit, that booting win10 and loading a reaper project using windows vsts is a sobering experience... It runs way better and at much lower latency. Still work needs to be done in this area
There is only so much you can do when a complete operating system has to be emulated.

Quote:
Hopefully the bigger audio companies catch on some day too In fact waves soundgrid already run the dsp on linux servers, no gui to buy though.. superior drums is built with JUCE, so ought to be easy to port, etc, etc.
That would actually be a reason for me to buy Superior Drummer (pretty much the only drum library I don't have)! I think Studio One might be built using JUCE, too. Haven't checked it, but I do know that Presonus uses JUCE for some other products.

And if the others keep avoiding Linux, then U-HE has to fill all the remaining gaps!
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:42 AM   #64
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There is only so much you can do when a complete operating system has to be emulated.
w_ine
i_s
n_ot
e_mulator

The acronym reminds that the wine team never tries to deal with
the entire windows system, rather, the goal is to manage
just enough of the api to get chosen apps on screen,
connected to ports, and responding to hardware. Plenty for Reaper
to run fast and stable in wine for many years.

In my experience, of which coding is not a part,
the less a software relies on windows code, the better it runs
in reaper/wine. IK Multimedia, appears to be a good example,
with SampleTank3, Amplitube4, Custom Shops, and a thorough
account manager and registration scheme, that one might expect
any given part of to fall sideways soon after pressing the 'any' key,
yet things work very well.

The quality and efficiency of Reaper itself is a constant reminder
to competing daw coders, that megabytes can defeat gigabytes.
100 meg of wine code...how massive is a windows OS download?
Hopefully, I'll never know based on personal experience.
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Old 10-12-2018, 03:48 PM   #65
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If you need / want / have to run Windows plug-ins, the best OS to use is Windows. WINE is very clever, but ultimately you are running binaries compiled for a completely different OS, built against a completely different set of dependencies - and the evidence is that for many plug-ins, compatibility is fragile and very WINE version dependent. What appears to work now may suddenly stop working and it may be impossible to establish the cause.
If you use (or want to use) Linux, its best to use native Linux host applications and plug-ins - eventually this will encourage development / porting of more plug-ins and host applications. I made some (commercial) native Linux plug-ins, that work - here:

https://www.overtonedsp.co.uk/

They work with Reaper, can be downloaded and tried for free (and the full versions are now only £10 each - so they're practically free too).
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Old 10-12-2018, 11:39 PM   #66
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Wine is an emulator, no matter what the acronym stands for: it tries to emulate the Windows infrastructure and the runtime environment for Windows executables and libraries. It just does not emulate any specific hardware, that's all.

Wine - as great as it is - can always only be a compromise, and, like Mike said, it will always be a fragile one. It helps to reduce the pain in certain areas (within certain limits), but it's not a really satisfying, stable and performant solution.

We need native 1176 and LAxA style and opto compressor plugins, dynamic EQs, decent multiband compressors, pro-level M/S tools, good reverbs, etc.

It's still a long way to go, but with DAWs like REAPER and BitWig at least there is a tiny bit of hope now.
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Old 10-13-2018, 12:19 AM   #67
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We need native 1176 and LAxA style and opto compressor plugins, dynamic EQs, decent multiband compressors, pro-level M/S tools, good reverbs, etc.
I'm guessing you have very specific plugins you'd like for those tasks, because if those things you mentioned didn't exist natively for Linux (JS plugins, Linux VST) I wouldn't have just migrated to Linux.
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Old 10-13-2018, 01:17 AM   #68
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I'm guessing you have very specific plugins you'd like for those tasks, because if those things you mentioned didn't exist natively for Linux (JS plugins, Linux VST) I wouldn't have just migrated to Linux.
I've yet to hear a valid proof for that - would you mind providing some examples? The lack of a comfortable GUI is something I could probably live with on a single-band compressor.

However, I must say that for a single-band compressor with multiple capabilities the U-HE Presswerk is definitely not a bad choice. But if you do a lot of mixing every day, you probably know yourself that you need specific tools for specific tasks. While I do reach for the same 4 or 5 compressors in almost all my mixes, there are situations where I need something different, and that freedom of choice is simply non-existent for Linux users.

I haven't found a good(!) limiter or multi-band compressor either. Never found ANY dynamic EQ at all (which I use and need in all my mixes).
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Old 10-13-2018, 02:32 AM   #69
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It's doubtful there will be any "valid proof" here either, then.

Everyone has their preferences, and if you're an entrenched user of specific plugins, nothing I say will convince you to use anything else. However these plugins are quite capable of making great-sounding mixes and working in a professional environment. You've probably already tried and rejected some of these since some of them are included in Reaper. I'd recommend you try them again, using your ears and some patience (and leave your preconceptions aside). It took me long enough to get over my preconceptions, so I know how it is...

Compressors:
  • ReaComp can do a nice job of sounding like LA-2A with the right settings.
  • NP1136 included in Reaper (a JS plugin) can sound similar to 1176LN.
    (Both the above are crazy flexible too, if you know how to use compressors and are comfortable trusting your ears.)
  • Sonic Anomaly's S.LA.X (JS plugin, also in ReaPack) is an LA-2A type plugin that I like.

Multiband compressors:
  • ReaXcomp
  • Witti's "w_comp_multi" JS plugin included in Reaper
  • GVST's GMulti (among some other very useful plugins)
  • There are the compressors from LSP VST, although I haven't given them a good trial yet since I just installed them yesterday (and it seems they use a lot more CPU than the others mentioned here)

Mid-side stuff:
  • Sonic Anomaly's HBC-2 & HBC-5 compressors are both flexible and great (HBC-2 is stereo with mid-side option)
  • use mid/side splitters/joiners that are included in Reaper as JS plugins, or alternately the "Ed Is Dim" VSTs from Airwindows (among a bunch of other really neat plugins). Set up FX chains with the help of MPL's Wired Chain script or TrackFX Routing Matrix (both these are also available in ReaPack).
  • LSP VST has a bunch of mid-side tools (I haven't tested them yet)

Dynamic EQ:
  • MrElwood's DynEQ JS plugin (among other nice plugins)

Reverb:
  • ReaVerb used with impulses. Use a "trim/gain/stretch" module after the "file" module to shape the sound of the impulse further. I'm currently using impulses made from a VS8F, and stretching them to create immense/thick/dense reverbs (offsetting the start position of the impulse to smooth the attack) and adding some EQ afterward. Set the ZL option and there's no latency. It uses low CPU, sounds great, and is very flexible. I've found a lot more impulses (from a bunch of other reverb processors) but honestly I don't need any more than these, with the "trim/gain/stretch" and some EQ.
  • There are some other impulse loaders I'd found for Linux, but I prefer using ReaVerb.

As for convolution reverbs: for a very long time they were my preference for "bigger" reverb sounds (I only used impulses for more realistic sounding small-to-medium room sounds), but once I got used to the idea of "messing with" impulses as I mentioned above, I didn't care about convolution reverbs anymore.

Keep in mind you can save FX chains easily and recall them with a right-click from the MCP. So you can "piece together a tool" with several plugins (mid/side with separate EQ/comp etc.) that's complex as an FX chain and treat it effectively as a single plugin for recall in other projects. You can also name the plugins in your chain whatever you want to identify them for their role in the chain, instead of leaving the default plugin names (in the pane on the left).
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:15 AM   #70
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Thanks a lot for the effort, James!

I know many of the tools you mentioned, but not all - will give the other ones a try when time allows.

BTW, I'm probably the least "entrenched" user in the universe. I keep looking for alternatives and want to try EVERYTHING, just because I'm curious.
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:39 AM   #71
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Yep. And I personally try not to buy any new plugins or tools that don't run on Linux. But for me that's pretty easy to say and do, as I'm more than well equipped on my Windows system.

I wish there was something more we could do to make the bigger companies give Linux a chance. That's where I am afraid not much will change any time soon.

Hope dies last.
I've been saying just this about Native Instruments and Kontakt since Robbie Burns started wooing the lassies with poetry. They are deeply deeply opposed to Linux, and every time i've seen posts asking them about a native linux version, they've responded with the corporate wall of silence, only broken by the occasional acolyte making excuses for them.

However, on a more positive note, there are many fine tools in Linux to manipulate noise, and i respectfully suggest you take a dive into some of them and spend an afternoon or two exploring the possibilities.

I'm using Linuxsampler (GIG, SFZ, and SF2 formats) as my one and only go to sample player for my orchestral libs (Nearly all GIG). I've spent some coins recently buying up gig versions for instruments and sections I feel would enhance what i already have, and although there's not as big a selection to choose from, and some are naturally hard to find, it's not impossible with a bit of effort.

There were a couple of hoops to jump through, but nothing that serious.

I no longer have Wine installed on my system, at all.

It's all native Linux and i'm enjoying writing music once again, instead of spending a lot of time on admin, or non music related activities, trying to get this or that windows app to work properly.

And a final positive note. No dev who only builds Windows or Mac plugins or apps gets my cash. It might seem a bit futile as there's only one of me, but i don't think i'm the only one. There is no compulsory requirement to financially support a company that doesn't give you what you want. Retail Economics 101.

Don't forget to tell them why you won't be buying their product, or supporting it in any way.

Alex.
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:55 AM   #72
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Thanks a lot for the effort, James!

I know many of the tools you mentioned, but not all - will give the other ones a try when time allows.

BTW, I'm probably the least "entrenched" user in the universe. I keep looking for alternatives and want to try EVERYTHING, just because I'm curious.
I'm glad for whatever help I can provide. I am also glad that you are keeping an open mind. I don't expect everything will work out perfectly in terms of plugin substitution due to the huge volume of available plugins in Windows compared to relatively few in Linux. However Reaper takes that up another couple notches by having its own plugins and JS plugins.

On the subject of Airwindows, and compressors in particular, I'd like to recommend Pyewacket and VariMu. You will have to wrap your head around how they work because they are quite different, and I don't even necessarily use them the way he recommends. He also has a bunch of plugins that can emulate vinyl, tape, etc., IronOxide5 being my favourite of those, and Righteous sort of falling into that category as well in its own unique way... that is a plug-in you really need to learn how to use but once you do, you'll realize how special it is. Channel6 is nice too but you have to make sure you're not hitting the input too hard (or instead of subtle coloration it will sound like hard clipping); make sure you leave at least 10-15 db of peak headroom prior to it.

With plugins like that, I don't really care if the compressors or EQs that I use have any particular coloration.

Also if you haven't really tried using ReaComp a lot, consider:
  • Trying knee sizes which you might otherwise think are "too big to do the job properly" (like 10-15 dB, and then you'll have to adjust the threshold to compensate)
  • Setting RMS to 0 so it acts as "peak only" (it'll then add harmonics, "color" if you will, and react with more "character")
  • Trying the detector input setting as "output (feedback)"

I wouldn't use a single compressor for everything, but ReaComp is a solid "go-to anytime" compressor for good reason. (And it's the lowest CPU-usage compressor I've used.)

There are other JS compressors which have different behavior including adjustable envelope decay time (and feedforward/feedback), one of which being witti_w_comp_feedback. Some others I use: w_comp_auto (aka "3 compressors in series"), w_comp_punch, w_comp_rms, w_comp_sat. Each has something different to offer.

As for EQs that behave differently: there are several JS EQ plugins I use. Some are better at certain kinds of curve shapes, some are designed to function similarly to the designs ("on paper") of classic EQs, etc.

Airwindows has several EQ plugins that are unique too (ToneSlant, Highpass, Lowpass, Average, Groovewear, Capacitor, Energy, etc.); they all have a certain character and in some cases dynamic response to the input/frequencies they handle. None of them are outright "dynamic EQs" in every sense, but each handles its task very well. Chain a few different "mini tools" like this in your track, and it might as well be some "magic hardware emulation"...but with probably more control.
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Old 10-13-2018, 02:42 PM   #73
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Wine is an emulator
Wine is not an egg. But like an egg, if it's broken,
you just wipe up the mess, (press DEL) and grab another one.

And it's trivial to have a basket full of different kinds
of eggs. I have a wine for trouble-free commercial plugins,
a wine just for Native Instruments, a wine for testing new
plugins and over-rides, and retesting stubborn plugins,
and another with a dozen over-rides that contains both
freeware and commercial plugins in working order.

And I keep multiple computers and boot setups,
preserving a lot of golden oldies, while choosing
a linux fit for the task. The muse never has to gripe
about bordom, a short supply, or some specific linux version
coddling a pet fiasco into the next decade.

For the guy on the street, not running a commercial studio,
using reaper in wine is a shortcut out of Redmond,
without leaving one's collection of plugins at the city limits.
And then along comes airwave, linvst, and a whole new bunch
of wrapped plugins hit linux operational status

...and then linux Reaper emerges from bitwigs shadow,
Ardour turns into Mixbus, Traction exhales, and more people
leave the mainstream, some prodded by the flaws and malware
of win 10, some by Apples pricing and dodgy update scheme,
and some are kids just out of the nest,
seeing some drunk knuckledragger band on stage knock over the laptop,
and thinking, 'I can do better than that, I wonder what's out there?'
Cheers
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Old 10-13-2018, 02:57 PM   #74
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Quote:
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compatibility is fragile and very WINE version dependent. What appears to work now may suddenly stop working and it may be impossible to establish the cause.
The purpose of wine is to be flexible, trivial to replace,
and always moving forward. It's made great progress in the past
two years, with no sign of slowing down. You're far better
at coding, than serving fud.
Cheers
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:00 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4duhwinnn View Post
it's trivial to have a basket full of different kinds
of eggs.
I'm beginning to see that now. The last time I tried doing audio in Linux, I was quickly discouraged due to my audio device at the time not being well supported (probably just not supported, but I tried forcing it to work since information about it wasn't concrete either way). I blamed JACK along the way and I assumed WINE would be complicated.

Now I'm seeing it's faster than I realized to do thinks like change kernels, add/remove packages (and their dependencies, handled easier than I thought by Synaptic and/or MX Package Manager)...it may not be 100% foolproof but it's actually a lot more solid and tidy than I'd expected.

I'm fine using native Linux software/plugins. But if I weren't, I'd use WINE. Even if it adds some CPU strain, my system currently functions around 30% more efficiently in Reaper than it did using Windows 7, so I'm not concerned.

Even if some software were released now that I thought was a "killer app" and it were Windows-only, I'd not bother going back to Windows; I'd just get it working in WINE.
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:09 PM   #76
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I have a wine for trouble-free commercial plugins, a wine just for Native Instruments, a wine for testing new plugins and over-rides, and retesting stubborn plugins, and another with a dozen over-rides that contains both freeware and commercial plugins in working order.
All that wine and you're still able to post?
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:13 PM   #77
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All that wine and you're still able to post?
Maybe he should install this (appropriately, it's Linux software, lol):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_(software)
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Old 10-13-2018, 03:21 PM   #78
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Maybe he should install this (appropriately, it's Linux software, lol):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheese_(software)
I mean, I always like to have a nice home brewed beer with my plugins, but...

Here's another one to go with your WINE and REAPER. Triple Cheese!

https://u-he.com/products/triplecheese/
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Old 10-13-2018, 04:53 PM   #79
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T3 was used in OneSynthChallenge #46

here's a link to an archive of the song entries, 400+ meg:

https://archive.org/compress/KvrOsc4...ipleCheese.zip

This month, T3 is getting a second go at the OSC 116

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewt...p?f=1&t=512269

The Cheese video app looks cool, will try that one,
if I don't get a hangover.
Cheers
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Old 10-13-2018, 04:59 PM   #80
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Now I'm seeing it's faster than I realized to do thinks like change kernels, add/remove packages (and their dependencies, handled easier than I thought by Synaptic and/or MX Package Manager)
Recently, I used Amplitube4 in reaper/wine,
while using linux reaper to host wrapped lv2 effects plugins.
Both daws taking line-input from my guitar amp.
Felt a bit like cheating, until I blinked my eyes...
Cheers
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