Old 11-30-2014, 10:50 AM   #81
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Can RS5k do disk streaming like Kontakt and SSD4?
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Old 11-30-2014, 11:09 AM   #82
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Havent dl'd yet but thanks in advance Suleiman.
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Old 11-30-2014, 01:11 PM   #83
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Can RS5k do disk streaming like Kontakt and SSD4?
RS5k loads all samples into RAM (no disk streaming is used).

My personal preference is to use RAM (not disk streaming).

This is one of the reasons I like RS5k (I have plenty of RAM).
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Old 11-30-2014, 01:30 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by heda View Post
We should have an option to exclude reasamplematic from this operations of copy or move media when saving.
Exactly, has anyone formulated a FR for this yet? If so let's all vote it up!

If not, who is good at this kind of thing? (Hint - lives in Croatia )
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Old 11-30-2014, 07:52 PM   #85
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I started a discussion
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=151162

I will post an FR in a day or two... If someone is better at posting FR's , please go right ahead
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:20 AM   #86
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A big THANKS from me, Suleiman! To Tod and SMM also.......great work from great people!
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Old 12-02-2014, 03:46 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by suleiman View Post
No worries man ! Tod has shared versions for users with all kindsa specs, so your spec is covered :
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=150868
What an absolute gent. Thanks chaps, I will try these out soon.
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Old 12-02-2014, 04:28 AM   #88
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I started a discussion
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=151162

I will post an FR in a day or two... If someone is better at posting FR's , please go right ahead
Alright ! I made the request....please vote for it !
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Old 12-02-2014, 04:34 AM   #89
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Originally Posted by RoboPlankton View Post
A big THANKS from me, Suleiman! To Tod and SMM also.......great work from great people!
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What an absolute gent. Thanks chaps, I will try these out soon.
You are most welcome !
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Old 03-09-2015, 12:08 AM   #90
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Default NOOB question

Hey everyone.
These things sound fantastic!
Thanks for putting in all that time and effort and releasing them into the world like this.

Forgive the newbie question - but since this instrument requires it's own project, how do we "import" it into the project we want to use it in?
If I have a project going and want to add these drums, how is that done?
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Old 03-09-2015, 12:18 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
Hey everyone.
These things sound fantastic!
Thanks for putting in all that time and effort and releasing them into the world like this.

Forgive the newbie question - but since this instrument requires it's own project, how do we "import" it into the project we want to use it in?
If I have a project going and want to add these drums, how is that done?
Open the project the first time, select all tracks and save as track template ( right click option ).

When you need the drums in another project, just right click and select the saved template. It will be inserted.

Btw, all the files are consolidates here now :
smmdrums.wordpress.com
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Old 03-09-2015, 02:01 AM   #92
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Default That did it!

That works - thanks for replying so quickly as well.
Much appreciated.


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Open the project the first time, select all tracks and save as track template ( right click option ).

When you need the drums in another project, just right click and select the saved template. It will be inserted.

Btw, all the files are consolidates here now :
smmdrums.wordpress.com
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Old 03-13-2015, 05:25 AM   #93
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Default SMM Suleiman drums 16 layer

Because even the lite version of the SMM kit is bigger than I want at the writing stage I have made this hack of Suleimans excellent RS5K sampler.

https://app.box.com/shared/static/83...qf5alt6rqt.rpp

If you have downloaded the kit, then just put this file in to the folder where you have the samples.

I have taken out most of the RR's and thinned the layers down to anywhere from 17-23 per instrument.

I also made quite a few more changes to suit my usage, some of which are as follows:

| - loads in around 1 min 10 sec from 7200 spin drive
|
|- removed sequencer baby, added MIDI TRACK
|
|- changed choke setup for HH
|
|- Reduced Kick and Snare layers and Round Robins. Changed Kick Sampler track to
|provide 'Attack' instead of 'Release'
|
|- Changed all other attacks to 0 ms
|
|- Some samples re-arranged by sorting RMS
|
|- includes experimental FX 'Snare Depth' which should be off for live playing as
|it adds latency.
|
| - Loads in 70 seconds
|
| - Uses about 2 GB in REAPER 32 bit, on win 7 64 bit OS
|
|- demo project has loops downloaded from smartloops

Also some very basic eq and compression, which I will update at some stage no doubt.

Here is an mp3 of the kit playing demo MIDI loops from smartloops.
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Old 03-13-2015, 07:56 AM   #94
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Super awesomeness ! Great work hamish !

Thats the thing with open platforms : its a continous work in progress and with constant improvements.

I'll give it a test drive tonite.
Is it cool if i add it to the site as Hamish's ultra lite version ?

Also , Hamish , can you upload to dropbox public or google drive public as zipped file containing the project folder which has the .rpp file with he saved sample content (wavs) so that anyone who wants to use this one does not need to download the whole massive sample set.

That will also ensure that this is plug and play for everyone.

Another surprise is in the works too
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Old 03-13-2015, 02:19 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by suleiman View Post
Super awesomeness ! Great work hamish !

Thats the thing with open platforms : its a continous work in progress and with constant improvements.

I'll give it a test drive tonite.
Is it cool if i add it to the site as Hamish's ultra lite version ?

Also , Hamish , can you upload to dropbox public or google drive public as zipped file containing the project folder which has the .rpp file with he saved sample content (wavs) so that anyone who wants to use this one does not need to download the whole massive sample set.

That will also ensure that this is plug and play for everyone.

Another surprise is in the works too
Hey Suli, I'd love that. Just let me tweak and tune a bit first, I'm still not super happy with the toms.

Maybe anyone else subscribed here who has the full set of samples would be able to try my setup and give some feedback?

Especially interested in how it works with an electronic kit, if there is anyone who could give it a try.
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Old 03-16-2015, 12:57 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamish View Post
|- removed sequencer baby, added MIDI TRACK
Hi Hamish.
I want to do this same thing.
How did you do it?

And I'd be happy to try your version out with an electronic kit if you think having a newbie do so would be helpful.
I also don't have an electronic kit, but I'll cross that bridge when and if I get to it.
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Old 03-16-2015, 03:08 AM   #97
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Hi Hamish.
I want to do this same thing.
How did you do it?
Hmm, good question, but I'm afraid I can't really remember. I know that I started by opening the .RPP in notepad to save load time, then just deleted sections in order to divide the project up into individual instruments. Then I rebuilt it without sequencer baby.

If you're new to REAPER this is probably too tricky, as you have to understand the synax of an .RPP fairly well.

I suggest load up the kit (make a copy called 'My SMM MegaDrums.RPP' or somesuch), then use the track manager to display all the hidden tracks (the sequencer is on one if I remember correctly). Delete that track and then insert a new one and create sends to each of the tracks in the 'Drum sampler' section. Record arm it to your MIDI port of choice.

Have a look at my 'ultra lite' version to see how that works. (Click the i/o button on the MIDI track in the TCP of the arrange view).


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Originally Posted by Baxter View Post
And I'd be happy to try your version out with an electronic kit if you think having a newbie do so would be helpful.
a newbie would be most welcome, or anyone else, really.
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Old 03-23-2015, 02:50 PM   #98
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Default sm mega reaper

First off this is an awesome kit! But I'm not getting my e kit to work with it. ...it a yamaha dtxplorer. Was wondering what I'm missing? The manual says that you can just plug the midi to usb and go. This is my first attempt at recording midi, so it's possible I missed something. Glad they picked the jazz festival! !!
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Old 03-23-2015, 11:53 PM   #99
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YAMAHA dtxplorer is a really basic e-drums and you can't re-map the pads in the brain. Assuming you have everything else working, you need to re-map a few pads. I have used dtxplorer before, and the way to do it is to add MIDI plugins into the input track on REAPER.

Assuming you DON'T have everything else working:

1) Options > Preferences > Audio > MIDI devices: make sure your MIDI device is in the list and enabled for input.

2) On the MIDI input track in the REAPER project make sure this is record armed, and the input is MIDI, with the correct device selected.

(also feel free to RTM...)

(I'm not sure which track this is on Suleiman's MegaDrums, but on my 'ultra lite' version https://app.box.com/shared/static/83...qf5alt6rqt.rpp it is called 'MIDI')

Once that is all good, you should record a half a minute of MIDI, working around your kit. The kick and snare are not mapped General MIDI on the dtxplorer, and they will need to be translated. Use the JS IX/MIDI_Tool one instance per piece of kit and remap (transpose the correct number of semitones) to get the right sound out of the sampler.

Beside the Kick and Snare, you will also probably need to re-map toms and maybe cymbals.

So there is a bit to do there, best luck and if you're still having problems feel free to ask again.
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Old 03-24-2015, 11:33 PM   #100
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Hamish nailed it . Please follow his instructions. Just to re-iterate :

Step 1 : plug in your drum pads via usb to your pc / laptop etc. make sure its driver is installed.
Step 2 : open Reaper. Go to options -> preferences -> MIDI Devices
Step 3 : make sure your MIDI drum pad is showing in the MIDI device and that it is enabled.
Step 4 : open the SM MegaReaper Drumkit project. Press F7 to see the midi tracks.
Step 5 : Make sure that track 3 titled MIDI Processor is armed ( "ar" track button is set to red ) and right click to set the MIDI input to either your detected drumpad ( which should show up in the right click menu ) or set the MIDI input to all MIDI ( and all channels).

Test it by playing it.

Also, read the manual included with the drumkit as well as the Reaper manual section on MIDI input and MIDI devices.
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Old 05-11-2015, 04:58 PM   #101
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Wow!! Thanks for your hard work and for sharing this, it's deeply appreciated!
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Old 05-11-2015, 05:41 PM   #102
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Very nice work with so many velocity layers! However, I'd like to recommend making more random samples for the loudest velocity layer (vel 127.) The reasoning behind this is that it's possible a drummer or keyboard player will strike the pad/key hard on each hit, triggering velocity 127. While 4 random samples is nice, something more like 8 would help minimize the perceived repetition of a given sample.

Back in 2008, I sampled a friend's Sabian 10" AA Mini Hats. On the closed hits, I created 16 velocity layers, with 8 random samples per-velocity. One set for the left hand. One set for the right hand. So each hand is 16 x 8 = 128. 256 samples just for closed hits. Choosing just the right samples for the randomness per-layer is walking a fine line. You want the samples to be different enough to not sound too similar, but not so different that they don't sound like they belong together. The entire library currently consists of ~1,000 samples.

Creating a proper sampled drum library is most definitely an art. Attention to detail is a must. Fortunately, using REAPER to create a library is a breeze (with SWS Extensions installed, of course.) Though, it can be rather time-consuming.

Thanks for creating this!
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Old 05-11-2015, 09:03 PM   #103
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I have been using and playing around with these samples for a while now, and I'd like to make a suggestion for any future projects you do -

hit the things harder for the highest velocities!

If I crank everything up to 127 it is what I'd consider 'forte'. The kit has no triple forte hits especially on snare and ride.

I do really, really like the hi-hat though!

I am also nearly finished making an SFZ for a much-condensed, close-mic only version of the kit. It uses 10-16 velocity layers with 2 to 3 round robins for some sounds.

I have been renaming and resaving all the files I used so it would need to be downloaded, therefor I think I will send it to you and you can host it, if you like.
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Old 05-12-2015, 07:24 AM   #104
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I have been snowed last couple of weeks, but i have set up a page with all these downloads direct and menued, if you can keep me updated on your new version fergler and i will update the site, i will try to get everything else up to date this week.
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Old 05-12-2015, 10:48 AM   #105
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hit the things harder for the highest velocities!
Hi Fergler, yes we've discussed this in length. We've got another drum library planed for the future and this is definitely on the list.
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Old 05-17-2015, 04:38 PM   #106
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Thank You So Much!
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Old 06-07-2015, 04:59 AM   #107
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Any particular reason why you decided to go with a high number of velocity layers and only two round robins instead of the other way around? I think it would sound way better with say 8 round robins at least when doing tremolos.
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Old 06-07-2015, 05:34 AM   #108
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There are seperate sets for sfz, kontakt, reaper and tx16wx.

Only my reaper drumkit ( MegaReaper) is the one with 127 layers and 2 to 4 round robins.
Why ? Because im mentally unstable ..but seriously, play it on really responsive drum pads and you will know why.


There are other kontakt, TX16wx, reaper and sfz versions have a much saner and more realistic 32 velocity layers with 6 + round robins , which is what may be what you are looking for.

All the goods are here :
www.smmdrums.wordpress.com
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Old 06-07-2015, 05:35 AM   #109
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Thank You So Much!
You are most welcome !
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Old 06-07-2015, 07:30 AM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHA View Post
Any particular reason why you decided to go with a high number of velocity layers and only two round robins instead of the other way around? I think it would sound way better with say 8 round robins at least when doing tremolos.
Quote:
Originally Posted by suleiman View Post
but seriously, play it on really responsive drum pads and you will know why.
Heh heh, good answer Suleiman.

If you think about it JHA, if you had 127 velicity layers with -36db being the lowest level, you could easily play 10 notes without playing the same sample twice, and they would still be less than 3db apart. That would be the same as 10 round robins. Plus you've got the added dynamics.
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Old 06-07-2015, 11:30 AM   #111
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Yeah I can see that, I'm just wondering the logic behind this approach. I didn't mean you shouldn't have many velocity layers just that if you think about it, you could have 127 velocity layers with 2 round robins. Now hit 127 velocity eight times and you still only have played 2 different samples. With 8 round robins you'll know you play always 8 different samples even if you hit/play the same note velocities over and over again.

I'm not a drummer myself but I reckon most drummers wouldn't want inconsistent hits that are too apart in velocity/volume. That's actually why there are triggers and sample replacements.
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Old 06-07-2015, 01:34 PM   #112
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Originally Posted by JHA View Post
Yeah I can see that, I'm just wondering the logic behind this approach. I didn't mean you shouldn't have many velocity layers just that if you think about it, you could have 127 velocity layers with 2 round robins. Now hit 127 velocity eight times and you still only have played 2 different samples. With 8 round robins you'll know you play always 8 different samples even if you hit/play the same note velocities over and over again.

I'm not a drummer myself but I reckon most drummers wouldn't want inconsistent hits that are too apart in velocity/volume. That's actually why there are triggers and sample replacements.
Actually even in the 127 velocity layer kit ( the megareaper drumkit ) , more than half the kit pieces have 4 round robins.

It is the most expressive drum kit i have ever played AND i have pretty much tried every product under the sun. If you are hitting 127 velocity 8 times in a row, there is something very wrong with either the drum pad or the playing technique. That kit is not made for metal, and is more suited to genres which need more percussive dynamics. My goal was to get it sounding exactly like a real raw drum kit (unprocessed). The samples are un normalised.

What you are looking for is the kontakt, tx16wx , sfz versions of SM Drums which have less velocity layers, more round robins with all samples normalized. Give it a spin as it seems to be exactly what you are looking for.
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Old 06-07-2015, 07:22 PM   #113
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Yeah I can see that, I'm just wondering the logic behind this approach. I didn't mean you shouldn't have many velocity layers just that if you think about it, you could have 127 velocity layers with 2 round robins. Now hit 127 velocity eight times and you still only have played 2 different samples.
Heh heh, JHA, I'm not trying to be sarcastic at all, but if that's the way you program your drums then by all means, you need a library with as many RRs as you can get.

With a dynamic drum library, your really do need at least a few programming chops.
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Old 06-08-2015, 04:32 PM   #114
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The 127 velocity was just an example as it could be 102 or 89 or 56.

I think it's just two different approaches here. With certain/higher amount of round robins I know always how many different samples are being alternated at minimum at any given time - no matter what's the dynamic of the source midi file or if there's any at all. This greatly reduces the machine gun effect and adds realism without any tweaking as in reality no two hits are the same when playing.

On the other hand, even with the extreme 127 velocity layers, you'll never know how many of those samples are actually being alternated without looking at the source midi velocities. For this you'll need to know the exact layer split points, which I find myself doing when trying to get the least amount of the machine gun effect with sample sets that have low amount of round robins. For a quite bit of sample libraries these days, you can't actually see the exact velocity split points making it impossible to know the "true" amount of alternating samples.

The best approach is a compromise between the two. I'd say, depending on the instrument you'll need 6-8 round robins minimum to avoid the machine gun effect at any given time.

Also, I'd like to add that this is not critique against your work and this particular sample set. I know it's a lot of work to sample huge drum kits. I'm just generally interested about the logic behind high velocity splits approach. Back in time, velocity splits were all we had for realism before round robin was 'invented'.

Edit: oh yeah there was also filtering and pitch altering which are used these days as well.

Last edited by JHA; 06-08-2015 at 04:38 PM.
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Old 06-08-2015, 06:55 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHA View Post
The 127 velocity was just an example as it could be 102 or 89 or 56.

I think it's just two different approaches here. With certain/higher amount of round robins I know always
how many different samples are being alternated at minimum at any given time - no matter what's the dynamic
of the source midi file or if there's any at all. This greatly reduces the machine gun effect and adds
realism without any tweaking as in reality no two hits are the same when playing.
Well I like your persistence JHA. You're right, if you don't care about dynamics then go for as many RRs as you can.

Quote:
On the other hand, even with the extreme 127 velocity layers, you'll never know how many of those
samples are actually being alternated without looking at the source midi velocities. For this you'll need to
know the exact layer split points, which I find myself doing when trying to get the least amount of the
machine gun effect with sample sets that have low amount of round robins. For a quite bit of sample
libraries these days, you can't actually see the exact velocity split points making it impossible to know
the "true" amount of alternating samples.
Yes, that's also true, especially with some of the commercial libraries that have there own VSTi GUI. Samplers like Kontakt and TX16Wx you can see the splits. You can't see the splits with RS5K, but you can easily test it.

Quote:
The best approach is a compromise between the two. I'd say, depending on the instrument you'll need 6-8
round robins minimum to avoid the machine gun effect at any given time.
Here's where I respectfully disagree, at least to the 6-8 RRs minimum. Give me a snare with 64 velo layers and 2 RRs, and I'm pretty sure I can make it sound more real and dynamic than a snare with 16 or even 24 velo layers and 8 RRs.

Like you say, RRs are great for reducing the machine gun affect, but that's just one small aspect of dynamics. For good realistic fills, I think the velo layers are a must.

Quote:
Also, I'd like to add that this is not critique against your work and this particular sample set. I know
it's a lot of work to sample huge drum kits. I'm just generally interested about the logic behind high
velocity splits approach. Back in time, velocity splits were all we had for realism before round robin was
'invented'.
Heh heh back when I started with virtual drums you were lucky to get three velo layers. I think that's what my old Linn Drum had.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LinnDru...ont_panel_.jpg

I probably used that for close to 7 or 8 years slaved to my multi-track tape decks.
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:27 AM   #116
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Well I like your persistence JHA. You're right, if you don't care about dynamics then go for as many RRs as you can.
You can still care about dynamics and have round robins. Not "as many RRs as you can" but amount that gives convincing tremolos. I think you are thinking a little black and white on this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Here's where I respectfully disagree, at least to the 6-8 RRs minimum. Give me a snare with 64 velo layers and 2 RRs, and I'm pretty sure I can make it sound more real and dynamic than a snare with 16 or even 24 velo layers and 8 RRs.

Like you say, RRs are great for reducing the machine gun affect, but that's just one small aspect of dynamics. For good realistic fills, I think the velo layers are a must.
I would choose 21 velo layers and 6 round robins per velo layer (126 samples) over 64 velo layers and only 2 round robins in each layer (128 samples). The former is more useful and playable and, with good samples sounds as realistic or more realistic than the latter one. 21 velo layers is only 6 velocities per layer and and you can program the layers to respond to volume which gives even more dynamics.

Good drummers can hit the drums consistently and there won't be huge dynamics on main hits unless all you play is drum rolls. Let's face it, if you can't hit the drums consistently when recording, you will get sample replaced and edited.
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:37 PM   #117
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Heh heh, okay JHA, we do have our different opinions which is good and I respect yours.

Do you by any chance have any mp3s or audio files you could post to show exactly what you mean?

If you do, maybe you could also post the midi files too?
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Old 06-10-2015, 11:57 PM   #118
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JHA - If you were dealing with music other than the standard clump clump clump four on the floor stuff that gets played on radio all the time, you WOULD need the full dynamic range offered here.
My biggest frustration with most of the drum romplers I own is that they are not capable of expressing subtle dynamic well.

As and when I get back in the UK, I am going to set up Suleiman's version and check it out with my E-kit. I have high hopes.....
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Old 06-11-2015, 02:47 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tod View Post
Heh heh, okay JHA, we do have our different opinions which is good and I respect yours.

Do you by any chance have any mp3s or audio files you could post to show exactly what you mean?

If you do, maybe you could also post the midi files too?
Actually I'd like to quote the manual of the most detailed sampled drums ever made as I can't explain it better:
Quote:
With MIXOSAURUS DAW Drums you can use up to seven alternative recordings of each hit, depending on the patch you load. This means you have SEVEN alternating samples, available for EVERY drum or cymbal, for EVERY articulation of that instrument, for EVERY velocity layer, and EVERY single one of these alternative recordings involve individual recordings for each of the multiple plugin output channels. If you load a “7 Alternating Samples” patch and play a sequence of 8 notes, all the same articulation and all at the same MIDI velocity, then only the 8th note will be playing a sound you’ve heard before. This allows MIXOSAURUS to sound utterly realistic even if you program a very stiff and machine-like groove.

Should you actually want MIXOSAURUS to sound like a machine, then you’d simply use patches without alternating samples.

Each drum groove consists of “big” and “small” notes. In most cases, the “big”, very important notes in a groove will be the strong ones, e.g. Kick and Snare Drum – however, this doesn’t necessarily have to be the case. Listen to the groove and ask yourself “exactly which of the notes in this pattern create the special character/feel?” The “big” notes are played with great consistency/focus, “small” notes may vary in velocity, might even be left out now and then.

Each individual articulation has a specific level of energy and attack. Playing accents, drummers will automatically choose the right articulation for the desired energy. Instead of playing the same articulation at a higher velocity, they probably play a different articulation using the same velocity.
I bolded the parts I find especially interesting. I reckon having 64 velocity layers is really extreme and most of those layers will get lost/unused by normal drumming. For example, I don't think it will sound good at all if you alternate the dynamic of a main snare hit throughout the song. Do not confuse this with playing tremolos and ghost notes, though. But it will sound bad if you're using the same few hits throughout the song.

http://www.mixosaurus.com/ - Have a listen the audio examples and judge yourself. From the demo I believe most of the drum set has "only" 16-20 velocity layers but every one of them has 7 round robins which is the key to realism.
Youtube video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjajvgIqCWo
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Old 06-11-2015, 02:50 AM   #120
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Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
JHA - If you were dealing with music other than the standard clump clump clump four on the floor stuff that gets played on radio all the time, you WOULD need the full dynamic range offered here.
My biggest frustration with most of the drum romplers I own is that they are not capable of expressing subtle dynamic well.

As and when I get back in the UK, I am going to set up Suleiman's version and check it out with my E-kit. I have high hopes.....
Define full dynamic range. A snare drum can go up to 120 dB and it will break your ear drums.

Do you think 20 velocity layers is enough? Have a listen to the Mixosaurus demos.
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