Old 02-13-2016, 01:31 AM   #41
Shippo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed209 View Post
Well, you probably know that by splitting the item this can be achieved? Check out Nicholas draft for notation manual for more.

Ok, wifey again, so... I'll be back
Yes, thanks, but I was thinking this should set globally as for time signature. At the moment it looks like you have to set the key signature for each track individually (and it's a bit fiddly). Or am I missing something?
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Old 02-13-2016, 01:40 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippo View Post
Yes, thanks, but I was thinking this should set globally as for time signature. At the moment it looks like you have to set the key signature for each track individually (and it's a bit fiddly). Or am I missing something?
"Split MIDI item in order to insert a key change at some point:

Right-click on the staff just after the start of the bar (but not on
any note) and choose Split MIDI media item (to set a new
key sig using the MIDI Editor dropdown) from the menu.
The item is now split (indicated by double vertical line, as shown
here).
To set the key signature, enable the Key option (located in
the row of dropdowns at the bottom of this window).
Select a key from the dropdowns (e.g. D# Natural Minor).
The key signature that you selected will be displayed on the
staff (see right)."

This is taken from the manual. Check the first draft here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...IntroGuide.pdf

oh, yes, sorry hehe: Thank you Nicholas!
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Old 02-13-2016, 01:47 AM   #43
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bug:

If you set Grid to a triplet setting, and have Notes: Grid -
then you will get triplets in notation. However pauses are not added automatically if you'd manually enter a note.

another bug (a bit harder to reproduce though):

If you zoom and scroll a bit (or sometimes just add or move around notes) the play cursor is shying away from the mouse cursor when trying to grab it.
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Old 02-13-2016, 01:59 AM   #44
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Default Note grouping and keyswitches

In the attached, the notes in the top staff would usually be beamed in groups of three, and on the second staff would be a quarter note followed by an eighth note (4 times).

The dotted whole note on the second line up of the second staff is in fact a very low note from the first staff. This is a keystroke, and we wouldn't normally want to see these. Is there a way to hide notes of certain pitches (or a range)?
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Old 02-13-2016, 02:12 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed209 View Post
"Split MIDI item in order to insert a key change at some point:

Right-click on the staff just after the start of the bar (but not on
any note) and choose Split MIDI media item (to set a new
key sig using the MIDI Editor dropdown) from the menu.
The item is now split (indicated by double vertical line, as shown
here).
To set the key signature, enable the Key option (located in
the row of dropdowns at the bottom of this window).
Select a key from the dropdowns (e.g. D# Natural Minor).
The key signature that you selected will be displayed on the
staff (see right)."

This is taken from the manual. Check the first draft here:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...IntroGuide.pdf

oh, yes, sorry hehe: Thank you Nicholas!
But don't you have to do that for each track individually? I do have the guide (thanks Nicholas) but I can't see how do this globally for all tracks.
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Old 02-13-2016, 02:26 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippo View Post
But don't you have to do that for each track individually? I do have the guide (thanks Nicholas) but I can't see how do this globally for all tracks.
Not 100% certain (still learning) but have you made all tracks/items visible and editable?
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Old 02-13-2016, 02:28 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippo View Post
But don't you have to do that for each track individually? I do have the guide (thanks Nicholas) but I can't see how do this globally for all tracks.
Ah, sorry for being trigger happy on the responses here, hehe, I haven't been this excited for quite some time.

No, it seems that splitting obviously still works across tracks, but setting the new key seems to depend on selected track. It would be very good if you could do this globally from notation view.
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Old 02-13-2016, 02:29 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicholas View Post
Not 100% certain (still learning) but have you made all tracks/items visible and editable?
Yes, and tried marquee selecting them all, but still only one track is affected
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Old 02-13-2016, 02:45 AM   #49
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first congrats on this one, finally some love for us composers!

Some requests:

- Please show a preview of the notes when entering it with mouse. It's a hit and miss when you don't see what you're clicking.

- Single click entering of notes with mouse.

- Staff direction change, up, down or automatic.

- What about transposing instruments? A Clarinet in Bb, Saxophon, etc..

- How can I enter a Rest?

- Manually change the staff beaming, cross staff beaming.

The changes from 1/8 to 1/16 and back are really buggy. No proper Staff beaming and it results in wrong musical measures. try it in 3/4. You enter a 1/8 Note, change to 1/16 and can enter the next note a 1/16 later while the 1/8 is still there.

When you change the visibility of tracks, the staff view changes only after mouse over.

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Old 02-13-2016, 02:45 AM   #50
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This is awesome, thanks schwa!!!! Looks very cool so far, thanks for the efforts on this one

Question, is it possible to open both Notation view and Piano roll ? This would be really handy.

thanks,

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Old 02-13-2016, 02:58 AM   #51
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Default FR move text items

It's really great to have text items, but it would be cool to be able to move them around instead of just removing them and creating new ones.
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Old 02-13-2016, 03:11 AM   #52
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Default FR Record in Notation and midi editor view with R shortcut

Sorry if this is already there, but didn't manage to record directly in notation view using the usual R shortcut, for some reason this adds notes, is it possible to keep focus on the record shortcut instead ? thanks!

Still discovering and testing, really love the new notation option so far.
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Old 02-13-2016, 03:31 AM   #53
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Default FR notepad with value options

It would be great to have some kind of notepad values to choose from (maybe on top of the notation editor) where you can easily choose note values.
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Old 02-13-2016, 03:42 AM   #54
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Feature request: Option for Independant quantize for notation display only

OR some other method of allowing readable notation when interpreting a relaxed performance (i.e. not perfectly on the grid)
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Old 02-13-2016, 04:02 AM   #55
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Here's a bug. When adjusting lenghth of notes measures get rhythmically incorrect... (the second image is correct, where I corrected length of first note!) Reaper should add rests for other voices or simply handle this intelligent within one voice...
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File Type: jpg 2.jpg (6.6 KB, 113 views)
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Old 02-13-2016, 04:44 AM   #56
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Did I missed something?



Reaper x86
Windows 8 x64

edit: something wrong with my config I guess, didn`t noticed that before install 5.20pre1 over 5.15



Run from action list Mode:Notation - nothing happened.
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:36 AM   #57
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  • Lots of collisions making it hard to read
  • Beams are connected the wrong way (I don't see any logic being applied). It should at least be editable, but useful would be beam patterns.
  • How can we change key signatures?
  • Dynamics should be below each system, not above (not in the screenshot)
  • It would be great if we could "meld" multiple tracks into one system. Like writing for 4 horns, one on each track, but reading them from one system.
  • +1 for quantizing notation view independently (without modifying underlying midi data)
  • Export to open format like MusicXML or LilyPond
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:44 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaktor:[Dave] View Post
  • How can we change key signatures?
  • It would be great if we could "meld" multiple tracks into one system.
Key signatures are edited as usual from the bottom panel (Key checkbox)
I've not yet tested, but imploding items across tracks if they were on different midi channels would probably do it. Though the direction of the stems will be very messy.
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:47 AM   #59
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Good morning! So much to respond to.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Commala View Post
An option to colour the note heads
If you select the notes, the piano roll color map will be used (and the dropdown preference for how to color). We could add an option to color the note heads when unselected, I suppose.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippo View Post
I think key signatures should be treated in a similar way to tempo and time signature, i.e. editable in the project settings and transport bar, and applicable to all midi items unless overridden. They could be changed at the start of any bar as for the time signature.
We went back and forth on this for a while. In the end we decided we needed to allow different key signatures on different keys, and that the most flexible way to do this would be to have the key signatures attach to the individual MIDI media items.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Bug: No support for swing grid in notation view?
Should work now. What are you seeing?


Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Bug: When assigned to a toolbar button, notation view icon is not mutually exclusive to other 3 MIDI editor modes.
Fixed for the next build, thanks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
FR: Themeable notation view (background color and staff/note color) so that it doesn't kill my eyes when switching from my dark themed MIDI editor to notation.
Eventually...


Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Will there be Actions List context for notation view? How about customize menu/toolbar specific to notation view?
There are actions within the MIDI piano roll section specific to notation (search for "Notation"). There won't be a separate section, because all existing piano roll actions should also work in the notation view. If you find any actions that don't work, please let us know.
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:51 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
There are actions within the MIDI piano roll section specific to notation (search for "Notation"). There won't be a separate section, because all existing piano roll actions should also work in the notation view. If you find any actions that don't work, please let us know.
Cool about the Actions list.

How about customizing the context menu then?


Re: the swing grid in notation view... the gridlines just disappear and there are no handles to change the swing, like in piano roll view.


Notation: markings for ppp-fff should be lower case in the context menu.
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:53 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ed209 View Post
If you set Grid to a triplet setting, and have Notes: Grid -
then you will get triplets in notation. However pauses are not added automatically if you'd manually enter a note.
Can you explain a bit more please?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippo View Post
In the attached, the notes in the top staff would usually be beamed in groups of three, and on the second staff would be a quarter note followed by an eighth note (4 times).
The beaming will follow the active rhythm (metronome) pattern, which is set alongside the tempo and time signature. For your 12/8 measure, if you set the rhythm pattern to ABBABBABBABB, the notes will be beamed in groups of three (or dotted quarters, etc); if you set it to ABBBABBBABBB they will be beamed in groups of four, etc. (Please note: I love this feature)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shippo View Post
The dotted whole note on the second line up of the second staff is in fact a very low note from the first staff. This is a keystroke, and we wouldn't normally want to see these. Is there a way to hide notes of certain pitches (or a range)?
There is already a preference for setting the clef for a particular note (for example, to force middle C to notate on the bass clef when using treble+bass). We can extend this preference to allow you to set, in your example, your stray note to treble clef, which will hide it from the bass clef-only view.
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Old 02-13-2016, 05:55 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
There are actions within the MIDI piano roll section specific to notation (search for "Notation"). There won't be a separate section, because all existing piano roll actions should also work in the notation view. If you find any actions that don't work, please let us know.
Pedants' Corner: Maybe change description in Prefs to "piano roll/notation"?
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:03 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
The beaming will follow the active rhythm (metronome) pattern, which is set alongside the tempo and time signature. For your 12/8 measure, if you set the rhythm pattern to ABBABBABBABB, the notes will be beamed in groups of three (or dotted quarters, etc); if you set it to ABBBABBBABBB they will be beamed in groups of four, etc. (Please note: I love this feature)
Nice feature there, if a bit cryptic (not uncommon for Reaper, though). Might help to call it "rhytmic/beaming pattern" rather than just rhythmic pattern.

And being able to override that defined pattern at will is a must. It needs to be simple.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:06 AM   #64
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Default FR Link staves with bracket

Is it possible to link multiple staves, it's a little bit confusing to see which staves are to be read on the same time right now, so just adding a black line to the left or bracket should do the trick ?
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:06 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
Please show a preview of the notes when entering it with mouse. It's a hit and miss when you don't see what you're clicking.
The display boxes in the upper right should show you what will happen if you insert a note at the mouse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
Single click entering of notes with mouse.
Can be done via mouse modifiers. By default, shift+ctrl+alt+click enters a note.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
Staff direction change, up, down or automatic.
Can you explain more, please?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
What about transposing instruments? A Clarinet in Bb, Saxophon, etc..
The existing MIDI transpose window will work to actually transpose the MIDI. We can add a per-track option to transpose the display only, so for example C remains C in the MIDI but is displayed as Eb.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
How can I enter a Rest?
Rests are added automatically, because this is intended as a view on the existing MIDI, and MIDI doesn't include rests. Eventually we may support various display-only preferences like adding rests, forcing notes to notate in some way that does not reflect the actual MIDI (like notating on the beat without forcing the MIDI to be on the beat), etc.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
Manually change the staff beaming, cross staff beaming.
See the comment above about how the rhythm (metronome) pattern affects beaming. Cross staff beaming, we can add to the todo list.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
The changes from 1/8 to 1/16 and back are really buggy. No proper Staff beaming and it results in wrong musical measures. try it in 3/4. You enter a 1/8 Note, change to 1/16 and can enter the next note a 1/16 later while the 1/8 is still there.
If you see incorrect beaming even after checking out how the rhythm pattern affects it, please let us know. As for overlapping notes at different pitches, this is intentionally allowed. Notes should snap to the ends of other notes (this can be enabled/disabled in options/snap settings), but if you want to enter a note in the "wrong" place, you can.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Zephyrus View Post
When you change the visibility of tracks, the staff view changes only after mouse over.
Will fix, thanks.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:09 AM   #66
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Default FR Separate time signature from tempo map

This is not just an issue in the notation view, but why does Reaper add a node on the tempo envelope when you add a new time signature ? It would be great to have one global tempo independent from the time signature changes. Or maybe two different envelopes one for tempo and one for time signature ?

Last edited by hve; 02-13-2016 at 06:16 AM.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:12 AM   #67
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Thanks Devs,

Bug : Alt-drag, ctrl-drag, shift-drag inserted text (f,pp..etc) crashes Reaper.
Bug : Alt-drag, ctrl-drag, shift-drag lyrics crashes Reaper.
Bug : Phrase line and texts over notes fall on each other.
Bug : Crescendo and diminuendo symbols cannot be stretched.

Feature requests :
- Printing and pdf export
- Page View
- Show/Hide selected notes on score (This is very useful for printing chords)
- Option to change the font and font size of inserted text.
- Option to show/hide, sequence bar numbers.
- Option to change accidental per note.
- Find the chord from selected notes.

Devs, please add "printing and pdf export" before offical release.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:13 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hve View Post
Question, is it possible to open both Notation view and Piano roll ? This would be really handy.
Not at present, and that's not really contemplated for the immediate future. Various issues arise if you allow multiple editors to affect the same content simultaneously.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hve View Post
It's really great to have text items, but it would be cool to be able to move them around instead of just removing them and creating new ones.
You can to select, copy or move them with the mouse.
[edit] As reported below, copying text items (and row notation) via ctrl+drag is buggy and may crash. This is fixed for the next build.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hve View Post
is it possible to keep focus on the record shortcut instead
Hmm, we don't seem to have a MIDI editor shortcut for "transport: record", which is surprising. We'll add this, unless there's some existing reason that it's a problem but I'm not thinking of right now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by hve View Post
It would be great to have some kind of notepad values to choose from (maybe on top of the notation editor) where you can easily choose note values.
You can add toolbar buttons mapped to actions like "Insert note: 1/4".


Quote:
Originally Posted by buddhajuke View Post
Feature request: Option for Independant quantize for notation display only

OR some other method of allowing readable notation when interpreting a relaxed performance (i.e. not perfectly on the grid)
There are existing actions called "Notation: Quantize display to XXX".

Last edited by schwa; 02-13-2016 at 06:43 AM.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:14 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpl View Post
Did I missed something?
Have you tried reinstalling 5.20pre1?
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:15 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaktor:[Dave] View Post
[*] Beams are connected the wrong way (I don't see any logic being applied). It should at least be editable, but useful would be beam patterns.[*] How can we change key signatures?[*] +1 for quantizing notation view independently (without modifying underlying midi data)[*] Export to open format like MusicXML or LilyPond[/LIST]

These questions are answered in the last few posts I believe.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Reaktor:[Dave
[*] Lots of collisions making it hard to read
You can make the staff shorter via ctrl+drag, which might help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Reaktor:[Dave
[*] Dynamics should be below each system, not above (not in the screenshot)
Note articulations should always be displayed opposite the stem. For dynamics and other row-based notation there is a general notation lane above the staff. There's no support at present for moving these notations to another position on the staff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Reaktor:[Dave
[*] It would be great if we could "meld" multiple tracks into one system. Like writing for 4 horns, one on each track, but reading them from one system.
Can you explain more please?


Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Reaktor:[Dave
[*] Export to open format like MusicXML or LilyPond[/LIST]
Just to repeat the previous answer, this is intended, but not any time soon.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:20 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Re: the swing grid in notation view... the gridlines just disappear and there are no handles to change the swing, like in piano roll view.

The gridlines are probably disappearing because the zoom level is too high (lines would be too close together). You can adjust them using the swing slider, but there's so much stuff on the screen already, we didn't put the individual grid line swing handles in the notation editor.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:27 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mehmethan View Post
Bug : Alt-drag, ctrl-drag, shift-drag inserted text (f,pp..etc) crashes Reaper.
Bug : Alt-drag, ctrl-drag, shift-drag lyrics crashes Reaper.
Ack, fixing, thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by mehmethan View Post
Bug : Crescendo and diminuendo symbols cannot be stretched.
We can add this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mehmethan View Post
- Show/Hide selected notes on score (This is very useful for printing chords)
We will add this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mehmethan View Post
Option to change the font and font size of inserted text.
Coming, but not immediately.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mehmethan View Post
- Option to change accidental per note.
Exists now, right click the note and choose "accidental."


Quote:
Originally Posted by mehmethan View Post
Find the chord from selected notes.
There is the existing "scale finder" window in the arrange view, which admittedly is obscure even for REAPER. We can add something like this to the notation editor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mehmethan View Post
Devs, please add "printing and pdf export" before offical release.
That will happen, but not for this release.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:28 AM   #73
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Bugs/nitpicking:



This screenshot shows two problems. First the position of the top flag in 32nd notes. And also the green bar should be behind the note (now it looks messy and makes the dot almost invisible.)

Feature Request:

An action to change the selected note enharmonically (for example to switch from G# to Ab)
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:31 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiiscompos View Post


This screenshot shows two problems. First the position of the top flag in 32nd notes. And also the green bar should be behind the note (now it looks messy and makes the dot almost invisible.)
What OS is this? Do you have any system font zoom enabled?

On the selection bar, it's tricky because we also don't want short notes to have their selection bar hidden behind the note head. We can certainly draw the bar behind accidentals and dots, though. [edit] though, certainly we can draw the selection bar behind tied notes.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:35 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Not at present, and that's not really contemplated for the immediate future. Various issues arise if you allow multiple editors to affect the same content simultaneously.
Thanks Schwa, I didn't realize this would be difficult. While the current way values are represented (green bar) is very clever, it's not very easy to globally view the length of notes unless you select them all. This is something I liked from other sequencers. I wonder if it may be a good idea to have the piano roll display on the bottom in notation view like in Samplitude Pro X as an option ?



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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
You can to select, copy or move them with the mouse.
Yess, thanks!


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Hmm, we don't seem to have a MIDI editor shortcut for "transport: record", which is surprising. We'll add this, unless there's some existing reason that it's a problem but I'm not thinking of right now.
I'm not sure why this is happening, but for some reason some of the global shortcuts input notes when you are in the midi editors, so yes, if we could keep those have at least the basic shortcuts from arrange view work in the notation editor that would help a lot!

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You can add toolbar buttons mapped to actions like "Insert note: 1/4".
Cool, will check this out then
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:42 AM   #76
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What OS is this? Do you have any system font zoom enabled?

On the selection bar, it's tricky because we also don't want short notes to have their selection bar hidden behind the note head. We can certainly draw the bar behind accidentals and dots, though. [edit] though, certainly we can draw the selection bar behind tied notes.
OSX 10.11.3. As far as I know no font zoom enabled.


Bug: view quantize seems to be broken here:


FR
Maybe consider the possibility to have two view modes: one non linear which will make the output much cleaner and readable, especially when working with shorter note values, and one linear for input. Currently there are far too many overlaps.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:42 AM   #77
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We went back and forth on this for a while. In the end we decided we needed to allow different key signatures on different keys, and that the most flexible way to do this would be to have the key signatures attach to the individual MIDI media items.
Schwa, we simply have to be able to enter a key change within the same MIDI item. MIDI standard allows change of key events during a performance, and doesn't require a new "item" (there's no concept of items with MIDI files, as you're aware I'm sure).

So, while there may be a default key signature per MIDI item, we MUST be able to change it at any point within the duration of that same item. It's a no-brainer.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:42 AM   #78
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The display boxes in the upper right should show you what will happen if you insert a note at the mouse.
yes but that's a real pita, your eyes are on the mouse cursor. It gets even more complicated when you enter notes below or above the system. Drawing a scale in e major for example consists of four sharps, if the measure has a natural c it will stay the whole measure long. Your brain must switch forth and back between graphical notation and tonal names that belong to the scale you are in in this very moment.

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Can be done via mouse modifiers. By default, shift+ctrl+alt+click enters a note.
Ok thanks.

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Can you explain more, please?
A default behaviour of staff direction in single notation with treble clef is beams go up from the lower notes until they reach b'' then go down. This is the automatic behaviour. Can we have a manually change of the directions so that for example all beams go up or down.

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The existing MIDI transpose window will work to actually transpose the MIDI. We can add a per-track option to transpose the display only, so for example C remains C in the MIDI but is displayed as Eb.
Yes, this is for ochestral work when a clarinet for example notates in Bb but sounds in C.

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Rests are added automatically, because this is intended as a view on the existing MIDI, and MIDI doesn't include rests. Eventually we may support various display-only preferences like adding rests, forcing notes to notate in some way that does not reflect the actual MIDI (like notating on the beat without forcing the MIDI to be on the beat), etc.
Yes that would be good, also let us change the order rests are displayed! For example a 4/4 measure with a 1/8 and a 1/4 rest at the end is displayed 1/4-1/8 and not 1/8-1/4 in some cases.
Let me get some notation done, i will post a few screen captures then.

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If you see incorrect beaming even after checking out how the rhythm pattern affects it, please let us know. As for overlapping notes at different pitches, this is intentionally allowed. Notes should snap to the ends of other notes (this can be enabled/disabled in options/snap settings), but if you want to enter a note in the "wrong" place, you can.
I'm familiar with overlapping notes, in staff notation this are multiple voices, just like you notate guitar for example. Single treble clef, three voices for example. But when one voice exceeds the rules of 3/4 in one measure and ends up with 3/4+1/16 its a bug, not overlapping notes.
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:44 AM   #79
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The gridlines are probably disappearing because the zoom level is too high (lines would be too close together). You can adjust them using the swing slider, but there's so much stuff on the screen already, we didn't put the individual grid line swing handles in the notation editor.
You're correct, it's zoom level that was the culprit. Sorry!
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:45 AM   #80
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I'm not sure why this is happening, but for some reason some of the global shortcuts input notes when you are in the midi editors, so yes, if we could keep those have at least the basic shortcuts from arrange view work in the notation editor that would help a lot!
Do you by any chance have the step sequencer mode enabled (search for "step sequencer" in the MIDI actions list)?
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