Old 02-13-2016, 06:48 AM   #81
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Not at present, and that's not really contemplated for the immediate future. Various issues arise if you allow multiple editors to affect the same content simultaneously.
Other DAWs seem to have no problems doing exactly that... How are they solving those varioius problems? Without any issues, it seems - stuff updates immediately when it's changed in any of the views.

Being able to see the event list at the same time as piano roll and/or notation is a given...
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:51 AM   #82
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Other DAWs seem to have no problems doing exactly that... How are they solving those varioius problems? Without any issues, it seems - stuff updates immediately when it's changed in any of the views.
Can we just say it's not happening in 5.20, for now?
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:52 AM   #83
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Sure we can!

Just let it be known it's a huge workflow helper being able to have all views available at once (PARTICULARLY piano roll+event list).
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Old 02-13-2016, 06:55 AM   #84
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Default Selected note head + bar suggestion

I have a suggestion for the look of the selected notes. In midi editor it's very clear what note you select, but in notation editor this is not always very clear, for example when you select a note you have that green bar that appears, but I think it would be handy and easier to use if we could make the notehead and bar look like this, what do you think ?



EDIT: what made me say this, is that when you select a note you have that green bar that appears, but it's at the right half of the notehead, it's odd clicking and move that note this way, I believe it's really important to have some kind of focus on a note when selected

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Old 02-13-2016, 07:00 AM   #85
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Default bug - vertical notehead placement

Vertical spacing of noteheads is a little bit odd in current notation view.

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Old 02-13-2016, 07:02 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
Sure we can!
Just let it be known it's a huge workflow helper being able to have all views available at once (PARTICULARLY piano roll+event list).
I have to agree (sorry schwa ) that it's quite handy
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:09 AM   #87
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Thanks for the new notation editor!

Something wrong with rests in this example?

Rests are not updated in bar 19 when adding a note to the beginning of the bar.

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Old 02-13-2016, 07:10 AM   #88
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Do you by any chance have the step sequencer mode enabled (search for "step sequencer" in the MIDI actions list)?
Ah, I don't seem to find any action for step sequencer, I can only see some shortcuts assigned to the keys there like this, but I didn't make these myself.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:17 AM   #89
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Ah, I don't seem to find any action for step sequencer, I can only see some shortcuts assigned to the keys there like this, but I didn't make these myself.
Sorry, "step input" is what I meant, and as you can see you do have the R key mapped to insert a note. Those are not the default shortcuts, maybe they got imported from somewhere, who knows.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:18 AM   #90
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Maybe when going into percussion mode change notes display to Slash/X notes?

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Old 02-13-2016, 07:20 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by jnif View Post
Thanks for the new notation editor!

Something wrong with rests in this example?
Yes, that's very strange, and I can't reproduce it. Do you have multiple MIDI media items on that track? Can you reproduce the behavior every time?
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:22 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyberAP View Post
Maybe when going into percussion mode change notes display to Slash/X notes?

You can display slash or X notes via the view/piano roll notes menu.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:22 AM   #93
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Yeah, there are a variety of note heads used in percussion mode (X, circled X for ride bell, triangle, diamond for crash, filled diamond for china/splash, plus...)


This is something that needs to be adjustable per note - not per item.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:22 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hve View Post
Vertical spacing of noteheads is a little bit odd in current notation view.

What OS is this, please?
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:23 AM   #95
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Awesome work! Very functional right now ... a few items

"Right Click + View + " has options for the Piano Roll Ruler that allows markers and tempo changes to be turned off. Is there (or will there) be similar notation options? Slight tempo mapping changes every bar get visually cluttered in the notation view. Or am I missing it?
EDIT: Bah... I found it. Right click on a tempo change and turn them off... but how to turn back on again?


The "Notation Guide" pdf mentions an option for "Row View"
Notation: Page view (whole measures, multiple staff rows, when when one track is visible) to "Off"

But I can't for the life of me find that. Has / will that be implemented ?

Nice Work!!!
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:23 AM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
You can display slash or X notes via the view/piano roll notes menu.
I know, was talking about doing that automatically.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:25 AM   #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LCipher View Post
The "Notation Guide" pdf mentions an option for "Row View"
Notation: Page view (whole measures, multiple staff rows, when when one track is visible) to "Off"

But I can't for the life of me find that. Has / will that be implemented ?
Yes, search the actions list, MIDI editor section, for "notation page".

The default page view always shows whole measures, and multiple staff rows for a single track. In the non-default non-page view, you only see one staff row (or pair) for a single track, but it scrolls continuously rather than measure by measure. Both views have advantages, and I'm not sure which should be the default.

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Old 02-13-2016, 07:32 AM   #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Yes, search the actions list, MIDI editor section, for "notation page".

The default page view always shows whole measures, and multiple staff rows for a single track. In the non-default non-page view, you only see one staff row (or pair) for a single track, but it scrolls continuously rather than measure by measure. Both views have advantages, and I'm not sure which should be the default.
Got it - didn't think to look under midi editor. Is "auto scroll" different from the midi editor setting? Auto scroll midi editor (set on) doesn't seem to auto scroll the notation view (row view).
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:40 AM   #99
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Some stuff I haven't seen mentioned yet:

- At the moment notation and piano roll mode share the piano roll main toolbar. Is a separate toolbar planned for notation? There are several commands I would need in one but not the other mode (eg the page/row view toggle).

- I have huge difficulties reading the measure numbers, they are very light grey. A tad darker would go a long way.


- I'd appreciate the track name to be visible in "page view" as well, a nice place would be horizontally centered at the top of the page.


- Percussion clef need some love, here's a simple GM drum snippet with Kick/Snare/Hihat in Reaper, pretty much unreadable:

Ideally we'd be able to decide where each drum instrument will be notated (map midi note numbers to staff positions) and how the heads look.
Also irritating are the rests. I think thea are a result of using notes shorter than eights (I created it in piano roll). That shouldn't make a difference in drum notation, methinks

Related: In piano roll I prefer editing drums in normal rectangle shape, but in a notation I'd expect drum notation heads (x circles, triangles and so forth). Currently this doesn't seem to be possible, x in notation will force triangles in piano roll and slashes in notation forces rectangles in piano roll... and vice versa.




Quote:
Originally Posted by hve View Post
Question, is it possible to open both Notation view and Piano roll ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Not at present, and that's not really contemplated for the immediate future. Various issues arise if you allow multiple editors to affect the same content simultaneously.

Maybe it's somehow possible to let them be the same "active midi editor" under the hood (also with regards to the scripting API) but still present the modes in separate windows? Only one of the windows would be "in focus" at a time, so the content would never get affected by multiple editor windows at the same time.





EDIT: forgot to say that I find this a tremendous first step into these deep waters
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:44 AM   #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Yes, that's very strange, and I can't reproduce it. Do you have multiple MIDI media items on that track? Can you reproduce the behavior every time?
I can reproduce it in a new project with a single MIDI item.
It seems to be somehow related to project tempo. Using the default 120 bpm tempo, I can't reproduce it. But when I set tempo to 110 bpm at the beginning of project, then at bar 19 rests are wrong. On bars 1-18 rests are correct.

Another bug:

Grace notes are not preserved when copy-pasting notes.

jnif

Last edited by jnif; 02-13-2016 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:52 AM   #101
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Just installed it and played with it a little. It looks cool, and I love how zoom operates in it. Great job schwa and thank you!
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:53 AM   #102
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I think key signatures should be treated in a similar way to tempo and time signature, i.e. editable in the project settings and transport bar, and applicable to all midi items unless overridden. They could be changed at the start of any bar as for the time signature.
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We went back and forth on this for a while. In the end we decided we needed to allow different key signatures on different keys, and that the most flexible way to do this would be to have the key signatures attach to the individual MIDI media items.
Thanks for the reply.

So if we have 20 midi tracks, do we have to set the key signature 20 times? And if it changes, change it 20 times? That doesn't seem right (maybe I've misunderstood?).

Wouldn't it be better to have a default global key signature at any point, which can be overridden at item level?
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Old 02-13-2016, 07:58 AM   #103
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^^^^ Also a valid point.


I still disagree that we need to split an item if we want to change key signature, though. That just makes no sense to me at all.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:02 AM   #104
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schwa,
reinstalling - same thing,
fresh install - works.

How to clear manually duplicated section names from Action List now?
Is there something in any .ini file that holds it?
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:05 AM   #105
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BUG:
When entering a short value then a longer value in another voice, we can get everything messed up (see gif).


Also, have you seen my post about quantize view being broken? http://forum.cockos.com/showpost.php...3&postcount=77

Feature request: action to change direction of the stem. Though it should do it automatically when we have two voices (top voice should have the stems going up and low voice the stems going down).
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:05 AM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnif View Post
But when I set tempo to 110 bpm at the beginning of project, then at bar 19 rests are wrong.
Great catch, thanks. Fixed for the next build.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:05 AM   #107
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"schwa:
The beaming will follow the active rhythm (metronome) pattern, which is set alongside the tempo and time signature. For your 12/8 measure, if you set the rhythm pattern to ABBABBABBABB, the notes will be beamed in groups of three (or dotted quarters, etc); if you set it to ABBBABBBABBB they will be beamed in groups of four, etc. (Please note: I love this feature)"

So nice! I love it also, but as ED already mentioned:
the User should know it.
It is an really important feature..^^


Maybe the beat number display should follow the timebase.(source/project)
The same like within Piano Roll and List view?
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:06 AM   #108
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Awesome work so far! Can't wait to see what happens when the scripting community is unleashed on this too.

One bug I noticed:

1) select notes
2)"Make phrase"
3) create a new note
4) undo

Result: phrase disappears

Basically it seems the phrase gets caught by undo no matter what I do after it.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:06 AM   #109
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I noticed that actions for note head types in drum mode rename themselves between piano roll and notation view.

Diamonds become X-notes, and triangles become slash-notes.

However, rectangles stay rectangles. And we all know that default note heads are NOT rectangles. So, perhaps, rename them to "note heads"?


Just a tiny nitpick.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:12 AM   #110
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Bug/inconsistency:

When drawing backward it sometimes creates a triplet (11 seconds in gif).



Also I was sometimes unable to select some notes or at least the selection was not visible. I can't reproduce it right now but if it happens again I send you the project file.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:16 AM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiiscompos View Post
BUG:
When entering a short value then a longer value in another voice, we can get everything messed up (see gif).
Also, have you seen my post about quantize view being broken?
Ah, I think you have display quantize set to 1/8, but the editor grid set to 1/32.

What happens, at present, is that notes are drawn on the grid at their actual position. This is intentional and helpful for visualizing notes that are ahead of or behind the beat. This is what you see as "broken" in the display quantization.

In your case, with display quantize set to 1/8 and inserting 32nd notes, the note heads are drawn where the actual notes are. But the grouping, beaming, ties etc all obey the display quantization, so even though you are entering 32nd notes, they get beamed as 8th notes, which looks weird.

It's not clear what should happen in this case. The display quantize needs to affect display only, not editing. If you have the grid set to 1/32 and insert a note at 1/32 into the measure, the note should get inserted there. Should it then get display-quantized to be directly on top of the previous note (and therefore invisible, if it's the same pitch)?
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:16 AM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
I noticed that actions for note head types in drum mode rename themselves between piano roll and notation view.

Diamonds become X-notes, and triangles become slash-notes.

However, rectangles stay rectangles. And we all know that default note heads are NOT rectangles. So, perhaps, rename them to "note heads"?


Just a tiny nitpick.
It also means you're stumped when you want to see X-notes in notation but triangles (or rectangles) in piano roll. I find this correllation very arbitrary.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:19 AM   #113
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Another bug when drawing backward. sometimes rest is missing other times it's not long enough. (two top staves)

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Old 02-13-2016, 08:19 AM   #114
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Originally Posted by swiiscompos View Post
[B]When drawing backward it sometimes creates a triplet (11 seconds in gif).
It looks like you are drawing with snap disabled? Triplets are automatically detected, so in the gif presumably you briefly drew a note that was exactly the length of a quarter note triplet.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:22 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
Ah, I think you have display quantize set to 1/8, but the editor grid set to 1/32.

What happens, at present, is that notes are drawn on the grid at their actual position. This is intentional and helpful for visualizing notes that are ahead of or behind the beat. This is what you see as "broken" in the display quantization.

In your case, with display quantize set to 1/8 and inserting 32nd notes, the note heads are drawn where the actual notes are. But the grouping, beaming, ties etc all obey the display quantization, so even though you are entering 32nd notes, they get beamed as 8th notes, which looks weird.

It's not clear what should happen in this case. The display quantize needs to affect display only, not editing. If you have the grid set to 1/32 and insert a note at 1/32 into the measure, the note should get inserted there. Should it then get display-quantized to be directly on top of the previous note (and therefore invisible, if it's the same pitch)?
Input should follow view in my opinion. Otherwise people will get bad surprises. So I would change the view quantize options to be view and input quantize.

EDIT: Still get a weird behaviour if I set the grid to 1/8 notes.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:29 AM   #116
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Sometimes note position change while drawing it (happens with snap enabled and disabled).

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Old 02-13-2016, 08:36 AM   #117
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Some problem with redrawing/reflowing the notation view when scrolling vertically:

In this video at time 0:16 after zooming out in piano-roll view, the notation view looks ok. But then at time 0:24 after scrolling a bit vertically the view is suddenly redrawn/reflowed. See for example how the location of cursor and bar 8 jumps when scrolling.

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Old 02-13-2016, 08:41 AM   #118
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When I zoom in and out it sometimes stop zooming on the cursor and starts scrolling down at the same time. Then there is no easy way to come back to where I was.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:42 AM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwa View Post
It looks like you are drawing with snap disabled? Triplets are automatically detected, so in the gif presumably you briefly drew a note that was exactly the length of a quarter note triplet.
Yes, actually it also happen when I draw notes in the other direction. Same with the missing silents, happens in both directions.
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Old 02-13-2016, 08:50 AM   #120
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I was able to reproduce the bug where the note can't be selected.

1) Create a 16th note at the beginning of the bar (grid is set to 1/16)

2) Drag it little bit backward. It creates a 32nd note (even if the grid is set to 1/16) that cannot be selected using marquee selection.

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