Old 09-21-2016, 10:28 AM   #1
juliansader
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Default A Bestiary of MIDI Bugs for v5.50

If you are an adventurous bard, eager to gain experience points and level up, MIDI editing can be an exciting quest: Fight monstrous bugs! Find clever workarounds to mysterious and inexplicable phenomena!

Otherwise, Abandon all hope, ye who enter here. The piano roll has practically been abandoned by the devs, and bug fixes are few and far between.


Following on from A Bestiary of MIDI Bugs for v5.25.

(Please do not report new bugs in this thread; rather, create a separate thread with a descriptive title.)


General sluggishness and unresponsiveness
REAPER's audio engine is famously efficient and optimized. Sadly, the piano roll is the opposite, and it's getting worse and worse: v5.40 is THREE TIMES slower than v5.00! This negatively impacts ReaScripts.
Recent versions get terribly bogged down when multiple takes visible in MIDI editor


Multi-channel MIDI editing
Bullets in channel dropdown list always show channel 1 being used
Channel filter removes notation information from notes in non-visible channels


Regions and the tempo envelope
Region moving/copying is completely unreliable if there are any tempo changes nearby. A major culprit is improper handling of edge points.
When region begins or ends with linear tempo segments, or is moved/copied into a linear segment, two points should be inserted at each edge point to preserve tempo envelope inside and outside region

When moving/copying region, part to right of new region loses time signature (duplicate report)
Moving regions drops multiple copies of existing tempo markers
When duplicating regions, grid ends up out of sync
Moving region across tempo change drops notes
Copying/moving regions causes tempo changes and time sigs to lose beat positions, even if timebase=beats, whether using linear or square tempo changes.
Sometimes, REAPER does not realize that an edge point is actually inside the Region: Tempo marker on first beat of region does not move with region


Other tempo envelope and time signatures bugs
Important tip: As discussed here and here (and elsewhere), the tempo map can easily get screwed up if options such as the following are not carefully and correctly set:
* Timesig markers "Allow partial measures",
* Add edge points when ripple editing or inserting time,
* Timebase for tempo envelope,
* Timebase for MIDI items.
One of the most common complaints concerns timesig markers jumping around. This is usually the result of "Allow partial measures" = OFF, combined with Timebase for tempo = Time.

"Create new measure from time selection" alters tempo at *end* of time selection
"Insert empty space" deletes time signature at start of time selection
Select/Copy/Delete "points in time selection" unreliable - depends on how time selection was drawn
Gradual tempo changes: gridline display/snapping and envelope pasting issues
Inserting new tempo point changes value/shape of envelope
Inserting square tempo point into linear envelope creates weird new timesig changes
MIDI either exporting or importing tempo maps incorrectly


Quantization and snapping
Quantize window applies wrong settings to non-active tracks
Quantize moving items which are already on the beat [perhaps expired - no recent confirmations]
In "Position and note length" mode, Quantize can not shorten notes [SOLVED]
When just opened, Quantize window shows "Triplet", but "Straight" is applied
When using "CC selection follows note selection" to coordinate notes and CCs, CCs follow manual note movements but not note quantization
Snapping to time position after linear tempo transition when the previous tempo marker does not fall on the grid
Humanize function is affecting non-selected notes in a MIDI item


MIDI note names
Note names not displaying in first track
Midi note name files not merging
Actions and menu items to change CC names misleadingly refer only to "note names"


Stuck notes and missing note-offs
Record settings: Input quantize results in stuck MIDI notes
Stuck notes when playing MIDI through VSTi - perhaps due to reaperhost bridge? (and perhaps also reported here)
Note-off not sent when using replace/enclose and a note overlaps the start of the enclosing item
"Send all notes off to all MIDI outputs/plug-ins" action is unreliable
Stuck notes can be caused by doing certain unusual edits *during* playback


Mouse modifiers and editing actions
Win key is not available as modifier for mousewheel shortcuts
Deselection: Mouse-click in CC lane still automatically deselects all events, even if "No action" is selected
Deselection: Left-click on MIDI note deselects all events, even if "No action" is selected
Velocity lane: "Erase event" mouse modifier does not work in velocity lane
Velocity lane: Cannot edit velocity of single note in a chord [Perhaps solved?]
Short notes: "Erase notes" with left-drag skips short or zoomed-out notes
When changing note length, mouse position and note edge sometimes don't match
Actions "Add previous/next note to selection" sometimes get stuck or slip notes


Artefacts when glueing, splitting or looping MIDI items
R4.78 creates CCs when Gluing...!
Extending MIDI item over tempo marker causes misplaced notes
If using large PPQ, note position and length change by thousands of ticks when gluing


MIDI editor window management
Docked MIDI Editor not positioned correctly until resized
Toolbar buttons for child windows such as Event Properties and Humanize behave inconsistently
MIDI editor loses focus after closing script GUI or contextual toolbar
Shortcut key in docked MIDI editor doesn't work after clicking MIDI toolbar
Docked toolbar steals focus
MIDI editor resizes itself after creating new MIDI item

Child windows disappear offscreen: MIDI Problem Transpose and Selecting "View -> Transpose..." doesn't open the transpose dialog box
The disappearing window problem seems to involve two separate bugs:
* REAPER does not check the screen resolution before opening windows offscreen, and
* the "Cascade all floating windows" action does not work for some windows.
(This bug also affects non-MIDI windows such as the script/JSFX IDE, script GUIs, and the ReaScript console.)


(Continued in next post...)

Last edited by juliansader; 09-18-2017 at 01:41 AM.
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Old 09-21-2016, 10:29 AM   #2
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Event list needs some love
MIDI Event List not updating after changes in arrange view or other MIDI editors
MIDI editor event list mode: display update bug (selections)


Notation editor
Tempo change and bar numbers overlay each other
Problems creating tuplets over tied notes
Display in Musical notation, blinking channel dropdown


Note preview and chasing
MIDI preview on new note, not working
Note preview doesn't "chase" notation text
Previewing notes in MIDI editor doesn't do MIDI chase (envelope automation gets chased, but not CCs)


Item length in MIDI editor
Extending MIDI take to right with mouse shrinks it from left
Editing item length in MIDI editor is buggy when the item length is shorter than 1/4 note and item properties are set to "loop item source"
A MIDI clip with a Rate > 1 does not loop correctly


Explode by note row
"Explode MIDI item by note row (pitch)" leads to empty channels for E♭-1 and E-1
"Explode MIDI item by note row (pitch)" leads to note lengths being increased


Overlapping notes and infinitely extended notes
Pasted note extend until the item's end if its note-off falls on same position as an existing note's note-off
ReaScript: MIDI_Sort causes extended note if note with negative offset ends on same PPQ position as next note start [FIXED!]
Humanize removes overlapping notes, but incorrectly


MIDI recording
MIDI ASIO Latency Compensation Problems
MIDI input quantize bugs (overlapping notes during recording)
MIDI overdub is cut off if it extends past first item into a second item


Display bugs in piano roll
Disappearing Velocity Handles
Midi editor grid glitch and Erratic grid lines in MIDI Editor
MIDI editor displays bank select incorrectly when item looped
CCs disappear when events earlier in MIDI string go offscreen


Lyrics
On 32nd and 64th notes, the lyrics 'stepper' skips notes or get stuck
Lyrics 'stepper' skips note if it start slightly behind beat
After editing lyrics several times, sometimes they can't be deleted


Reascript bugs
Large state chunks are truncated by SetTrackStateChunk
Using MIDI_InsertEvt to insert a Note On automatically insert a (wrong) Note Off (resulting in zero-length notes)
MIDIEditor_GetTake returns take object even if no take is active
MIDI_GetNote returns endppqpos different from visual appearance in editor
MIDI_DeleteNote ADDS note to another pitch
MIDI overlapping note issue


Zooming bugs
Double-clicking MIDI item doesn't open item fully expanded in MIDI Editor
MIDI Editor "Zoom to Content" Ignores Low Notes
MIDI editor auto-zoom bugs (constant unnecessary auto-zooming)
Opening/closing docked MIDI Editor can cause irretrievable loss of arrange view vertical zoom


Diverse
MIDI link parameter modulation: Parameter locked to last received MIDI CC value

MIDI feedback routing bug? (MIDI routing + audio feedback depends on track order)

MIDI editor: Actions that refer to "all" events are named incorrectly/inconsistently [Temporary workaround in thread]

MIDI Editor Key snap status incorrect after switching items

Drag Midi item from VSTi onto track: wrong piano roll notes mode in arrange view

Undoing with Ctrl-Z causes notes to shorten, and cannot be undone

When very small sized, docked Virtual MIDI Keyboard octave transpose is buggy

Instrument definition file (.ins) parser bugs [FIXED!]

MIDI Editor Key snap status incorrect after switching items [FIXED!]

Strange doubling of MIDI events at top of FX chain when certain VSTs are added after



Archive

In v5.28, almost all the known bugs in multi-channel MIDI editing were fixed!

Multi-channel MIDI editing
Active channel's CCs hidden behind other channels' CCs [FIXED!]
Notation: Set Event Higher/Lower Channel Delete Notes Articulation [FIXED!]
"Channel: Show all channels" activates Event Filter [FIXED!]
"Draw/edit CC events" mouse modifier affects some non-active channels differently [FIXED!]
"Edit CC events" mouse modifier buggy in multi-channel situations [FIXED!]
Extended notes when editing velocities with mousewheel in channels > 1: Edit Velocity via mousewheel bug and Weird MIDI velocities problem [FIXED!]
When all items set to edit-enabled in the midi editor track list, changing MIDI channel still only affects item with edit focus [FIXED!]

Mouse modifiers and editing actions
Velocity lane: "Linear ramp CC events" does not work in velocity lane "MIDI CC event" context [FIXED!]
Velocity lane: "Draw/edit CC event ignoring selection" does not work in velocity lane "MIDI CC event" context [FIXED!]
Short notes: "Move notes left/right one grid unit/pixel" do not work on notes of length 0.0.001 [FIXED!]
Small notes disappear when colored by track [FIXED!]

MIDI in the arrange view
Copying notes from MIDI editor to arrange view does not paste all notes [FIXED!]
Minimum item loop-length MIDI editor vs Arrange view [FIXED!]
Inline MIDI editor CC lanes won't resize [FIXED!]

Zero-length notes
Zero-length notes created when swapping MIDI Editor view or closing/re-opening MIDI item [FIXED!]
Zero-length notes created by glueing items with overlapping notes [FIXED!]

CC selection do not follow note selection
Some note selection actions do not trigger "CC selection follows note selection" [FIXED!]

MIDI editor window management
Selecting grid or note values from the dropdown menus causes the editor to lose focus [FIXED!]

Display bugs in piano roll
MIDI editor: Cannot grab note start to change length (various issues when notes start before item) [FIXED!]

Last edited by juliansader; 08-05-2017 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 09-21-2016, 12:19 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
Display bugs in piano roll
MIDI editor: Cannot grab note start to change length (various issues when notes start before item)[/url]
This was connected with the older behaviour with drawing note borders at item border (printing note start where it really wasn't), which has been fixed... sort of, the velocity handle start is still drawn at item border, but it's still much better now.

I don't think we should be able to grab note start from the item border, if the note starts earlier tbh.
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Old 09-22-2016, 01:37 AM   #4
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BTW Stuck Notes and Stopping within the Range of the Note length

These can refers to overlapping Notes/Stopping within the range of overlapping Notes and some bad Plugin & also Hardware behaviors.

Some rare plugins and Hardware need for every overlapping "open"Note ON also one
Note Off event to "close" the Note ONs, which is not really the MIDI Standard.
One bad behavior VSTi is for example this newer Roland Sound Canvas VSTi.
So if you have three overlapping Notes, example "C4", and you stop the playback before the
"Normal" C4 Note Off events occur,
REAPER send one Note Off after pushing Stop for C4 instead of one for every open Note On in a row(as it would be if you not stop the playback in between Note ON to Note OFF.)
The result is that two #C4 Note OFF events for the same C4 Note are missing
and this VSTI example above get stuck.. -----meaning after Stop the playback in between overlapping Note ON/OFF..

I really thing many Stucks can only related to this VSTi/Hardware overlapping events behavior.
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Last edited by ELP; 09-22-2016 at 01:43 AM.
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Old 09-22-2016, 02:14 AM   #5
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So are we going to have a thread now for each point update? I don't think that's efficient.

You can rename the thread, you know? Edit the first post, it's right there.
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Old 09-22-2016, 03:16 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDragon View Post
So are we going to have a thread now for each point update? I don't think that's efficient.
Not necessarily. In this case, I just felt that the first thread's bug list was getting too long and overcrowded. Better to focus on current bugs than long-solved ones.
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Old 09-22-2016, 03:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELP View Post
BTW Stuck Notes and Stopping within the Range of the Note length

These can refers to overlapping Notes/Stopping within the range of overlapping Notes and some bad Plugin & also Hardware behaviors.
If any of these bug reports regarding stuck notes have been fixed or solved, please let me know (in the relevant thread), so that I can mark the threads as fixed/solved/no bug.
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Old 09-27-2016, 01:11 AM   #8
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Quote:
MIDI editor window management
Various inconsistent behaviors of child windows: Event properties window does not deactivate toolbar button.
MIDI editor losing focus: MIDI Editor - no focus (the FR Keep MIDI editor focused after opening and closing popup windows touches on the same issue)
Can't replicate "MIDI Editor - no focus", but the focus remaining in dropdown menus (and not in MIDI editor) after using them still remains.

See #3 here http://forums.cockos.com/showthread....61#post1735461
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Old 09-27-2016, 01:21 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noise_construct View Post
Can't replicate "MIDI Editor - no focus", but the focus remaining in dropdown menus (and not in MIDI editor) after using them still remains.

See #3 here http://forums.cockos.com/showthread....61#post1735461
I will update the links in the first post.
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Old 09-27-2016, 02:57 AM   #10
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Thank you juliansader
for compiling this list!

Bug-reporting is a tedious task..
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Old 09-27-2016, 11:04 AM   #11
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I have a feeling this effort is very useful, as it makes it easy for developers to have an overview of the bugs that concern MIDI, and see which ones can easily be fixed and where there is an effort to make.

It's probably not stranger to the important number of bug fixes concerning MIDI in the last few versions.
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Old 10-04-2016, 10:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ELP View Post
BTW Stuck Notes and Stopping within the Range of the Note length

These can refers to overlapping Notes/Stopping within the range of overlapping Notes and some bad Plugin & also Hardware behaviors.

Some rare plugins and Hardware need for every overlapping "open"Note ON also one
Note Off event to "close" the Note ONs, which is not really the MIDI Standard.
One bad behavior VSTi is for example this newer Roland Sound Canvas VSTi.
So if you have three overlapping Notes, example "C4", and you stop the playback before the
"Normal" C4 Note Off events occur,
REAPER send one Note Off after pushing Stop for C4 instead of one for every open Note On in a row(as it would be if you not stop the playback in between Note ON to Note OFF.)
The result is that two #C4 Note OFF events for the same C4 Note are missing
and this VSTI example above get stuck.. -----meaning after Stop the playback in between overlapping Note ON/OFF..

I really thing many Stucks can only related to this VSTi/Hardware overlapping events behavior.
I have the problem with stuck notes on my Nord Lead 4, Nord Wave, NI Kontakt (vst) so it sounds weird if this is solely af hardware/vst plugin problem.
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Old 10-04-2016, 04:23 PM   #13
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I am having an issue with the newest update not loading my controllers. My NanoKontrol2 and Presonus faderport have disappeared.
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Old 10-04-2016, 04:48 PM   #14
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Not sure if I see this in the list, but when you have two midi items, one short, and other long, with short on top somewhere in the middle, when you glue both, it will extend notes until they hit anther note or end of item.
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Old 10-09-2016, 06:14 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikComposer View Post
Not sure if I see this in the list, but when you have two midi items, one short, and other long, with short on top somewhere in the middle, when you glue both, it will extend notes until they hit anther note or end of item.
I don't think this bug is in the list yet. If it has been reported, could you give me a thread reference?
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Old 10-09-2016, 06:14 AM   #16
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Thread updated for v5.27...
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Old 10-09-2016, 07:12 AM   #17
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Don't know if this is on your list:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=182386
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Old 10-09-2016, 12:27 PM   #18
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@juliansader
Thanks for keeping this post updated,
it is currently the only way we have to get an overview of which MIDI bugs are still present.

It remember me when REAPER had a proper bug tracker, which quickly allowed to see which bugs were still present etc...

I think everyone could benefit from a more modern solution (like github issue tracker), with visible tags, status filter, category archive etc...

What do you think of the closure of the old bug tracker ?
And do you think a modern bug tracker could be cool for REAPER users (and devs ?) ?
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Old 10-09-2016, 04:19 PM   #19
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Talking about Child Windows; should it be normal that the Quantize window absolutely need to be displayed in order to have Quantize ON ?
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Old 10-10-2016, 02:25 AM   #20
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X-raym: Agreed but I remember how the old one became a dumping ground.
Newbies who had meatware problems posting them as bugs, people galloping around on their hobby horses for pages and pages...
It would probably need someone specifically to vet user posts including comments.

Maybe not allow comments at all and only permit redirects to discussion threads?
If that were policed 100% it WOULD cut down on the spurious crap and make it easier for the devs to read and analyse.
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Old 10-10-2016, 03:03 AM   #21
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It might be the case that devs have their own internal tracker now and they're putting bugs that are actually bugs in it, at their own pace. Probably best way of doing it. I agree that the old tracker was not a good solution because lots of people abused it, or didn't know how to use it properly.
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Old 10-10-2016, 03:39 AM   #22
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Or maybe they don't.

Systematic approach would save our time, and as long as we pay them and not the other way around, the time and effort contributed by users/beta-testers shouldn't really be treated with such a careless attitude as BR and FR forum sections are treated.

This chaotic mess of multiple forum posts on the same issues where 99% of threads get no dev response isn't the most efficient way. Now if they would do their own testing and QC, they could just delete these forums, but REAPER functioning depends on users reporting the bugs from final releases.
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:12 PM   #23
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v5.27 will soon be released, so the Bestiary has been updated for v5.28.

Sadly, the list of known MIDI bugs has actually *grown* during the v5.26 and v5.27 cycles.

A while ago on the KVR forums, when we were all still giddy from the many bug fixes in v5.25, I stated that "the devs are currently on a WoW-like raid quest to squash MIDI bugs, and if they carry on at the present rate, REAPER's MIDI may well be bug-free when we reach version 5.28". Now, two cycles later, it may seem that time is running out, but the dream of bug-free MIDI can still be achieved in v5.28 - the devs are great programmers, folks, they can do it!
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:14 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
the list of known MIDI bugs has actually *grown* during the v5.26 and v5.27 cycles

What bugs were introduced in 5.26 or 5.27?
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Old 10-19-2016, 12:35 PM   #25
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Quote:
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What bugs were introduced in 5.26 or 5.27?
I do not know if any new bugs were introduced by REAPER's new features, but several (probably older) bugs were discovered.

Comparing the v5.25 Bestiary with this thread, I find the following newly discovered bugs (I may have missed a few):

Multi-channel MIDI editing
"Draw/edit CC events" mouse modifier buggy in multi-channel situations
"Edit CC events" mouse modifier buggy in multi-channel situations
"Move CC event on one axis only" mouse modifier buggy in multi-channel situations
Shorter (lower-valued) CC events are hidden behind taller (higher-valued) CC events

Mouse modifiers and editing actions
"Linear ramp CC events" does not work in velocity lane "MIDI CC event" context
"Adjust value for events (mousewheel/...)" does not work on Pitch

Tempo envelopes
Tempo marker on first beat of region does not move with region
Gradual tempo changes: gridline display/snapping and envelope pasting issues
Inserting new tempo point changes value of envelope at point

Lyrics
Lyrics don't work on 16th notes
Lyrics bug when note stretches past middle of measure
After editing lyrics several times, sometimes they can't be deleted

Creation of zero-length notes
Zero-length notes created when swapping MIDI Editor view or closing/re-opening MIDI item

Quantization (macro scale)
When just opened, Quantize window shows "Triplet", but "Straight" is applied

Diverse
Midi note name files not merging
Editing item length in MIDI editor is buggy when the item length is shorter than 1/4 note and item properties are set to "loop item source"
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Old 10-19-2016, 01:08 PM   #26
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Well, new bugs will always get priority. But I don't think anything on that list is actually a new bug, just newly added to the list.

It is a great service to create and maintain this list -- thank you. I have gone through the first half dozen items on the list and responded in the relevant threads. Please be aware that some list items (like the first one on the list) are not clearly bugs with definable solutions.
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Old 10-30-2016, 06:56 PM   #27
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I mentioned this in a different thread yesterday. I might just not be able to find the correct options.

There is an inconsistency between double clicking a note to switch items and double clicking an item in Arrange view to switch. Double clicking a note leaves the item as Editable. Double clicking the item leaves it as Visible (this is what I want, and accords with my settings IMO.)

One editor per project
Open all selected items
Active item follows selection changes in arrange view
Selection linked to visibility
--both in Prefs and in Tracklist menu. The wording involved here confuses me as to whether or not these are one and the same setting(s)

I think if the bold setting is in effect, it should revert to Visible. If selection is linked to Editability, it should be, then, left as Editable. (why an action for both of those now? I thought it was a toggle. They can, according to tracklist right click menu, both be on.)
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Old 11-03-2016, 10:12 PM   #28
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Just noticed: has this long overdue bug/feature request been overlooked in this bug list ? (which can be boiled down to: MIDI Thru is missing in Reaper)
MIDI timing in Reaper

It was asked for by a number of people in that thread (among which EvilDragon), and it appeared today in the french forum.
So following the 2009 thread, here are some threads that mention the issue:
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...76#post1405876
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=144134
http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?p=1752003
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:31 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lolilol1975 View Post
Just noticed: has this long overdue bug/feature request been overlooked in this bug list ? (which can be boiled down to: MIDI Thru is missing in Reaper)
In order to keep things manageable, I have included only bugs in this list, not yet any feature requests. (Although I sometimes found it difficult to distinguish between the two.)

It would be nice to have a separate "Wishlist" of MIDI feature requests. If I am not too busy, I will try to compile such a list once the majority of bugs in this Bestiary have been fixed.
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:34 PM   #30
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Although I sometimes found it difficult to distinguish between the two.)
It can be but the way it generally works is that if the code is doing what it is expected to do, even if it is or seems silly, it's a feature request.

If the behavior is not what the code is expected to do (via the person who wrote that code, aka not an end-user misinterpretation of what it should do), then it is a bug.

That subtle distinction is important from a development standpoint and often confuses, rightfully so but is important to properly categorize them.
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Old 11-04-2016, 12:56 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
It can be but the way it generally works is that if the code is doing what it is expected to do, even if it is or seems silly, it's a feature request.

If the behavior is not what the code is expected to do (via the person who wrote that code, aka not an end-user misinterpretation of what it should do), then it is a bug.

That subtle distinction is important from a development standpoint and
often confuses, rightfully so but is important to properly categorize them.
Users can not know what code is expected to do, we don't have access to it. Neither is there any documentation of any features. Therefore if a feature does not behave as expected by users, it is a bug.

If this is undesirable, roll up your sleeves and man up- document your code. It is what would be demanded from you if you were employed by a software company.
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Old 11-04-2016, 01:12 PM   #32
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Users can not know what code is expected to do, we don't have access to it. Neither is there any documentation of any features. Therefore if a feature does not behave as expected by users, it is a bug.
It is more valuable for those users who are genuinely interested, especially when they are trying to compile an organized list (as evidenced by the OP's statement and this thread) how that decision is made and what the terms actually mean. Of course one has the right to remain ignorant of everything behind the curtain but the OP doesn't seem to be someone who wishes to exercise that right; hence the reason I provided 'them' the info.
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Old 11-07-2016, 05:41 AM   #33
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v5.28 has just been released and it is another humdinger for MIDI!

Most excitingly, all the known bugs in multi-channel editing has been fixed!**

I expect that users will find novel applications of these multi-channel features: If track routing or a JSFX is used to force all MIDI playback into a single channel, then the MIDI inside the track can freely be assigned to any channel, and channels can be used as all-purpose groups that can be independently edited, similar to FL Studio's "color groups".

** There are still one or two Feature Requests related to multi-channel editing that will hopefully soon be implemented.

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Old 11-07-2016, 10:05 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
It is more valuable for those users who are genuinely interested, especially when they are trying to compile an organized list (as evidenced by the OP's statement and this thread) how that decision is made and what the terms actually mean. Of course one has the right to remain ignorant of everything behind the curtain but the OP doesn't seem to be someone who wishes to exercise that right; hence the reason I provided 'them' the info.
You're a smart fellow, but you're pretty deep into the cult and it somehow fogs your vision.

Every user who ever reports a bug is genuinely interested, compared to dozens or hundreds or thousands of those who encounter the same bug, but

a) know it's pointless
b) don't care
c) switch DAW


Cockos is no different from MS, Steinbeg, Adobe or Avid. Commercial enterprises. Do you think Adobe expect their users to keep bug logs for them, or compile lists of neglected bug reports?
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Old 11-07-2016, 10:30 AM   #35
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You're a smart fellow, but you're pretty deep into the cult and it somehow fogs your vision.
I'm describing how commercial enterprises have to deal with it internally and some users *are* interested in that. I can appreciate your reference to other companies since that process I described is decades old and used by every one of them including reaper, so it really has nothing to do with how I feel about Reaper or fog or cult or vision - it's just how the process works - Some like to know that, others don't - nothing more.


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Do you think Adobe expect their users to keep bug logs for them, or compile lists of neglected bug reports?
^Of course not but it is off topic and irrelevant to my original post. I think you're projecting compared to my simply helping a member understand how bugs/feature requests get evaluated internally. That's really all there is to it - how do they get evaluated - the answer is academic so if someone happens to be compiling a list and categorizing them, that knowledge may be helpful to 'them'. Your idea that I'm somehow placing the onus on end-users is completely missing the idea presented not to mention false.

I'll leave it be for now because this debate probably doesn't belong in this thread.
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Old 11-11-2016, 02:50 PM   #36
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Updated for v5.29!

(There were so many bug fixes in 5.28 that I can now finally fit all bugs into a single post!)
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Old 11-11-2016, 02:51 PM   #37
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Nice job.
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Old 11-12-2016, 03:38 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noise_construct View Post
You're a smart fellow, but you're pretty deep into the cult and it somehow fogs your vision.

Every user who ever reports a bug is genuinely interested, compared to dozens or hundreds or thousands of those who encounter the same bug, but

a) know it's pointless
b) don't care
c) switch DAW


Cockos is no different from MS, Steinbeg, Adobe or Avid. Commercial enterprises. Do you think Adobe expect their users to keep bug logs for them, or compile lists of neglected bug reports?
Saw you quoted and took you off my ignore list specifically to comment on this.

I for one dont give a damn what other users want/need/etc., I am more than happy to accept that someone has gone to the trouble of creating and maintaining a central repository for bugs in a specific area and that the devs are happy to use it.
Pragmatically, since you are still here and evidently still using Reaper, YOU are equally "deep in the cult" as you choose to describe it.
The phrase "dont bite the hand that feeds you" comes to mind.

Any enterprise always succeeds better by looking after the customers it has got and trying to retain them than worrying over those who try the product and move on.

Interestingly on the couple of occassions I have lifted you off my ignore list recently, I notice you have accidentally started posting a fair bit of decent advice and polite comment in with all the bile and vitriol. Scary!
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Old 11-13-2016, 03:40 AM   #39
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This thread has been amazingly well maintained and props to julian.
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Old 11-17-2016, 06:50 AM   #40
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Was going to report a MIDI bug (quantizing won't shorten notes) when I stumbled across this. Nice work!
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