Old 02-04-2017, 11:52 PM   #41
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Haha. No seriously - keep it coming! I love the suggestions. I'm actually glad I had already combed through many of the themes during development. In the end, this is a product for musicians to feel whole doing what they do while allowing OTR to stand true to the Reaper Community. So, let's build it big and build it together! That's what its all about.
Well ... since you are asking, my favorite themes.

No 1. Albert 2.0.5 Pro Tools. Clean, beautiful, easy to read.

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Old 02-04-2017, 11:58 PM   #42
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No. 2 - White Tie Imperial, version 2. To be released hopefully within the next months.

This is DAW hard core porn. Just look at the mixer ... hoo yah.

The background / tracks is too dark for me though.

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Old 02-05-2017, 12:07 AM   #43
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No. 3. And then there is PT12! For people with Pro Tools withdrawal symptoms.

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Old 02-05-2017, 12:29 AM   #44
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As long as people who want good contrast and don't like simulated hardware are covered as well then I'll be as happy as one can be given the limitations that Reaper graphics have. Have never understood the attraction for WT Imperial for example
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Old 02-05-2017, 11:11 AM   #45
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Today I've added five new videos that showcase how to use Track Templates and how to use the Library Builder feature which will allow you to design your own TrackPacks. Hope you enjoy! In particular, I think you just may be pleasantly surprised on the "OTR Mapped" version of the track templates. Not to spoil anything or spill the beans on new surprises upcoming, but you will see this feature used in some really amazing things to come (that I haven't yet shared)... More videos upcoming!

OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 1 of 5
https://youtu.be/0lxJF9f8wGo

OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 2 of 5
https://youtu.be/m3IwcZxC_6Q

OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 3 of 5
https://youtu.be/os-HYMxxCbU

OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 4 of 5
https://youtu.be/vR70V_XZfKk

OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 5 of 5
https://youtu.be/GR9TGw10xPw
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Old 02-05-2017, 02:09 PM   #46
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Today I've added five new videos that showcase how to use Track Templates and how to use the Library Builder feature which will allow you to design your own TrackPacks. Hope you enjoy! In particular, I think you just may be pleasantly surprised on the "OTR Mapped" version of the track templates. Not to spoil anything or spill the beans on new surprises upcoming, but you will see this feature used in some really amazing things to come (that I haven't yet shared)... More videos upcoming!

OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 1 of 5
https://youtu.be/0lxJF9f8wGo

OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 2 of 5
https://youtu.be/m3IwcZxC_6Q

OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 3 of 5
https://youtu.be/os-HYMxxCbU

OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 4 of 5
https://youtu.be/vR70V_XZfKk

OTR - Using Track Templates & Creating TrackPacks - Part 5 of 5
https://youtu.be/GR9TGw10xPw

Very cool ... it's going to take me a while do digest this. Very clever concept!
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Old 02-05-2017, 07:45 PM   #47
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Thanks! And thanks for the ideas on the various themes, too. I do have some of the freely available themes included, including some of Albert's. But if the designer has chosen to pursue a "donation" or pay model route to make some of those themes available (which it appears the PT 2.05 one is), I do not think it'd be appropriate to include those particular themes in the packaged product. That would defeat their own personal model for the work they are putting into those particular themes. I know CinCat and Albert seem to both be pursuing that model.

However, I did include the PT12.5 one and a few others you will probably like - such as the WT Imperial stuff. And, of course, themes are just as easy to add to OTR as they are with Reaper. Just drop the theme in the OTR folder and choose it from the theme list inside of Reaper! It is still Reaper at its core. Just a really hot-rodded template sitting on top of it all.
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Old 02-05-2017, 08:04 PM   #48
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I did include ... WT Imperial
In a commercial product? Please don't.
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Old 02-05-2017, 08:47 PM   #49
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Watching the first of the MIDI videos, I got a very familiar feeling when the list of MIDI note name maps popped up. While I don't have any vehement objection, I do think it would be polite to ask before including freely provided resources in a product one is going to charge for.
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Old 02-06-2017, 02:12 PM   #50
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In a commercial product? Please don't.
WT would you suggest that he just include a link to it then?
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Old 02-06-2017, 02:32 PM   #51
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Thanks! And thanks for the ideas on the various themes, too. I do have some of the freely available themes included, including some of Albert's. But if the designer has chosen to pursue a "donation" or pay model route to make some of those themes available (which it appears the PT 2.05 one is), I do not think it'd be appropriate to include those particular themes in the packaged product. That would defeat their own personal model for the work they are putting into those particular themes. I know CinCat and Albert seem to both be pursuing that model.

However, I did include the PT12.5 one and a few others you will probably like - such as the WT Imperial stuff. And, of course, themes are just as easy to add to OTR as they are with Reaper. Just drop the theme in the OTR folder and choose it from the theme list inside of Reaper! It is still Reaper at its core. Just a really hot-rodded template sitting on top of it all.
Yeah ... including those themes is probably going to create issues with the people who made them (see White Tie's post below).

White Tie makes his themes available for free (White Tie tell me if I am wrong) - Albert has a voluntary contribution system. It's a pickle to include those in your own commercial product.

Let me ask you this: what happens if e.g. I just drop Albert's 2.0.5 theme into an OTR project, do I retain all the colored tracks etc.? It would be a massive pain to set that all up again. I kind of like the coloring scheme you choose, and I agree with your reasoning - not wild about the bright red / blue / green etc., hard on the eyes.

If the integration with eg White Tie or Albert's theme is not as straightforward I'd be happy to pay you / White Tie / Albert a bit extra ... the convenience of having everything work w/o too much mocking about is an important consideration.
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Old 02-06-2017, 02:52 PM   #52
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I really would not want to pay extra for themes. On the other hand I've already paid so it doesn't really matter😀

But paying for bundled themes would have pushed the price that little bit higher and would also open up OTR to people wanting theme mods as part of support.
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Old 02-06-2017, 03:23 PM   #53
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Yeah ... including those themes is probably going to create issues with the people who made them (see White Tie's post below).

White Tie makes his themes available for free (White Tie tell me if I am wrong) - Albert has a voluntary contribution system. It's a pickle to include those in your own commercial product.

Let me ask you this: what happens if e.g. I just drop Albert's 2.0.5 theme into an OTR project, do I retain all the colored tracks etc.? It would be a massive pain to set that all up again. I kind of like the coloring scheme you choose, and I agree with your reasoning - not wild about the bright red / blue / green etc., hard on the eyes.

If the integration with eg White Tie or Albert's theme is not as straightforward I'd be happy to pay you / White Tie / Albert a bit extra ... the convenience of having everything work w/o too much mocking about is an important consideration.
peter... I could be wrong but it seems like OTR must include the sws color extention... and if so, you should not have a problem either editing those colors or changing them for all the tracks you want ...

however I did see that OTR uses a toolbar of color swatches and those would come from OTR toolbar icons... and if you went to a whole other color set, those would need editing also... which is not too difficult to get done.

Now that I've spoutted off, lets see what Johnathan says...
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Old 02-06-2017, 04:22 PM   #54
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In a commercial product? Please don't.
A PM would have been a more appropriate response that I could then address publicly - which I did just PM you in reply about this. But since it is now part of a public thread, I want to make sure I address this clearly to everyone who may read it.

First and foremost, I want to make sure that I foster a great relationship with everyone in the Reaper community. I apologize if something could have caused those perceptions to be anything else and would love to address those concerns outside of a public forum. That's both fair and the professional thing to do.

With that said, I also want to make sure everyone understands that OTR is first and foremost a collection of personally developed scripts and actions that are inter-dependent on themselves, as well as interdependent on the included OTR templates. As such, those stand together as the OTR package. I don't think anyone could disagree with that.

After the product aspect is out of the way, the purchase of OTR can also be seen as a consultive-effort where I've taken the time to pre-configure everything in the OTR package to work as much "out of the box" as possible. This simplifies for some and/or de-mystifies some of the challenges people face who are wanting to step into Reaper for the first time. Hence the name "Template." So, from that perspective, it is just putting together pieces that already freely exist for the users of OTR.

I personally, and humbly, would think the addition of including freely available themes would be a win-win for both the users and the creators of those themes. The users would not have to concern themselves about the installation process of a theme. The creators of the themes have a new user that could potentially support their future creative efforts with new themes. Instead, it would seem that the effort to withhold the theme would be alienating a potential user.

Again, these are just my thoughts. If OTR was marketed with a user-created theme in the videos - really, anything outside of the default Reaper theme (or one that I may have designed) - then it would be a potentially different argument because it would appear as if someone else's theme is the product being sold. That's not the case here. And as you can see in my posts, I made it clear I would not include themes that were not freely available even if they were requested by users of OTR. In the end, everyone should feel whole about their contributions in the community. And as you can see, there have been no efforts to thwart that feeling of wholeness a user would feel about their contributions to the Reaper community.

Philosophically speaking, there are many "mods" of freely available templates (WT included). Taking a stance that a theme shouldn't be included then begs the question - what about the mods? Either way - this is philosophical and completely non-confrontational. But it is something to think about....

This isn't an argument for or against including WT Imperial in OTR. Its just a question. It shouldn't be seen as anything more than if someone said, "hey, can you set this up for me?' since that is essentially what was asked.

To the users who may read this - adding a theme to OTR + Reaper is the exact same process of adding a theme to Reaper. There is no additional configuration required. All colors and formatting are retained (assuming the theme allows it). You just download the theme and drop it in the Themes folder. Many are available for free here on the Reaper website.

Hope this helps clarify my approach with OTR. It is all about musicians helping musicians.
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Old 02-06-2017, 04:27 PM   #55
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peter... I could be wrong but it seems like OTR must include the sws color extention... and if so, you should not have a problem either editing those colors or changing them for all the tracks you want ...

however I did see that OTR uses a toolbar of color swatches and those would come from OTR toolbar icons... and if you went to a whole other color set, those would need editing also... which is not too difficult to get done.

Now that I've spoutted off, lets see what Johnathan says...
You are correct on both fronts

As for whether a theme changes colors, the theme's I've tried seem to keep everything in tact. I believe that is part of the way Reaper handles themes by default. However, I suppose it is possible that a theme developer could potentially zero-out pre-existing colors. Can't say I've seen that done though.

Either way, as long as a theme supports track colors, the OTR color menus will always be able to reset the tracks to the default OTR color setup.
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Old 02-06-2017, 08:55 PM   #56
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To the users who may read this - adding a theme to OTR + Reaper is the exact same process of adding a theme to Reaper. There is no additional configuration required. All colors and formatting are retained (assuming the theme allows it). You just download the theme and drop it in the Themes folder. Many are available for free here on the Reaper website.
Ah ... that is what I want to hear.

Just one follow up question: if I drag and drop Albert's 2.0.5 PT theme into OTR, will I have the tracks coloring of OTR?

And what happens if I drop the White Tie theme into OTR -- will I have the track coloring of OTR?

I am simple and stupid - if you wonder exactly how simple and stupid, go a few posts above, and look at the session screenshots. That's me.
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Old 02-06-2017, 11:45 PM   #57
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I am simple and stupid - if you wonder exactly how simple and stupid, go a few posts above, and look at the session screenshots. That's me.

well then peter, think whatever you like about yourself.... still, IMHO you are so far from stupid it's not worth talking about... Simple? I doubt that as well but again, IMHO, 'simple' is the best one can be.

I think the real answer to all this theme stuff will quickly show up once we have OTR in our hands.... another two weeks maybe? then we can just drop various themes into the running reaper and see how it goes. My bet? OTR users will quickly post here about which themes they find play nicely with it.

I personally don't love the standard reaper theme, but hey, that is just my eye. It certainly functions well. IMO having that as the basic for OTR is clearly the way to go.

I love reaper's ability to simply have a folder of the themezip files open in a normal window and drag and drop them onto a project... I rarely go through the menus to change a theme because of this...
Truth is I have one portable install just there for testing themes...
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Old 02-07-2017, 01:54 AM   #58
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Would it be possible to coordinate OTR's pre-configured 3rd-party scripts with ReaPack?

I expect that most ReaPack contributors would not mind if their scripts are included in OTR (as long as credits are given, along with links to their webpages/donation pages/forum threads). However, there may be a problem when the user eventually installs the ReaPack extension (which they should be encouraged to do, in order to easily update scripts and install new ones): If ReaPack does not detect the pre-configured scripts as its own, these scripts will be duplicated instead of updated.

I am not sure how ReaPack works under the hood, but it may be possible to include pre-configured ReaPack ini files in OTR, so that once the user installs ReaPack, all the installed scripts and repositories are automatically detected by ReaPack.
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Old 02-07-2017, 02:32 AM   #59
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I'd like to introduce Orchestral Template for Reaper (OTR).
Congratulations!

I looked briefly at OTR,
and this might be a game-changer in several ways.

Must be a lot of pit-falls and some learning-curve to it.

VI-composing is not a big thing for me personally,
but I'm sure many will find your offer interesting.

I hope you find a good way of respecting/valuing/pricing your own work vs. what others brings on the table regarding DAW, scripts, theming and so on.

Best of luck!
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:32 AM   #60
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Ah ... that is what I want to hear.

Just one follow up question: if I drag and drop Albert's 2.0.5 PT theme into OTR, will I have the tracks coloring of OTR?

And what happens if I drop the White Tie theme into OTR -- will I have the track coloring of OTR?

I am simple and stupid - if you wonder exactly how simple and stupid, go a few posts above, and look at the session screenshots. That's me.
I don't have the 2.05 theme, so I can't be entirely sure, but Albert's other PT themes all retain the color. Just checked.

WT_Imperial also retains the colors too. Looks quite nice!
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:33 AM   #61
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well then peter, think whatever you like about yourself.... still, IMHO you are so far from stupid it's not worth talking about... Simple? I doubt that as well but again, IMHO, 'simple' is the best one can be.
Possibly one of my favorite replies to someone I've ever seen. 100% this.
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:38 AM   #62
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Would it be possible to coordinate OTR's pre-configured 3rd-party scripts with ReaPack?

I expect that most ReaPack contributors would not mind if their scripts are included in OTR (as long as credits are given, along with links to their webpages/donation pages/forum threads). However, there may be a problem when the user eventually installs the ReaPack extension (which they should be encouraged to do, in order to easily update scripts and install new ones): If ReaPack does not detect the pre-configured scripts as its own, these scripts will be duplicated instead of updated.

I am not sure how ReaPack works under the hood, but it may be possible to include pre-configured ReaPack ini files in OTR, so that once the user installs ReaPack, all the installed scripts and repositories are automatically detected by ReaPack.
Makes complete sense. I loaded your scripts in originally using Reapack, so it seems like that'd be a great way to support those third party extensions in the future. And of course, making sure credit is given where credit is due. I hope you saw that in the videos as I certainly wanted to over-emphasize that in the midi videos to make sure your work was recognized independently of OTR.
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Old 02-07-2017, 09:42 AM   #63
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Congratulations!

I looked briefly at OTR,
and this might be a game-changer in several ways.

Must be a lot of pit-falls and some learning-curve to it.

VI-composing is not a big thing for me personally,
but I'm sure many will find your offer interesting.

I hope you find a good way of respecting/valuing/pricing your own work vs. what others brings on the table regarding DAW, scripts, theming and so on.

Best of luck!
Thank you!
I hope users find the learning curve to be very, very easy. That's the goal at least And I know I'm saying that as the creator of it, but really - once a person understands the basic way its laid out (the map of OTR), it should be smooth sailing. Nearly everything is a right-click or button push away.
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:07 AM   #64
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well then peter, think whatever you like about yourself.... still, IMHO you are so far from stupid it's not worth talking about... Simple? I doubt that as well but again, IMHO, 'simple' is the best one can be.
LOL ... maybe so. Let's say that the session setup above is not ideal ... using the same reverb for all instruments, just on the group bus. If you want to do this properly you might want to use different reverbs for each section, maybe two of them (one for early reflections, one for hall); if you change the early reflections you can a simulation of depth.

Spaces is a really nice reverb so it still sounds nice, but in terms of midi mockups, I could do better. For example, if I were to add percussion it would probably sound to wet; and for close miked instruments I might want to dial reverb back, and so on, and so forth.
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:08 AM   #65
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I don't have the 2.05 theme, so I can't be entirely sure, but Albert's other PT themes all retain the color. Just checked.

WT_Imperial also retains the colors too. Looks quite nice!
Excellent.
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Old 02-07-2017, 10:42 AM   #66
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I just wanted to say thanks for all of the replies and support so far. Today is a special day for me with OTR because I am about to unveil a new video demonstrating what is quite possibly my favorite feature of OTR (at least in what's been unveiled thus far ). This video focuses on QUAD Mixing and I'll also be adding this video to the primary post of this thread as well.

But here's what you need to know. OTR comes preconfigured for QUAD mixing - including bouncing to QUAD stems. No additional setup required. Make sure your 1/2 outputs are connected to your fronts and your 3/4 outputs to your rears. It is really that easy. Reverb/FX channels are preconfigured. No sloppy routing to make it happen either.

But the BIG feature - though please try to stick through the whole video (I know it is long) - is unveiled at around 19 minutes. Skip there if you are short on time. I am most, most proud of this. And I'm sure you may figure out when you see what is unveiled with the ways OTR can handle quad mixing, there will be even more to be revealed along the journey with OTR.

Here's the video: A Primer on Quad Mixing in OTR
https://youtu.be/6iGltkNp2sA
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:02 AM   #67
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LOL ... maybe so. Let's say that the session setup above is not ideal ... using the same reverb for all instruments, just on the group bus. If you want to do this properly you might want to use different reverbs for each section, maybe two of them (one for early reflections, one for hall); if you change the early reflections you can a simulation of depth.

Spaces is a really nice reverb so it still sounds nice, but in terms of midi mockups, I could do better. For example, if I were to add percussion it would probably sound to wet; and for close miked instruments I might want to dial reverb back, and so on, and so forth.
I don't know the reverb 'spaces'... but as I understand OTR, what you are saying is a major part of it's design... that it is routed so that you can have diff reverbs affecting diff audio traks...
And, though of course I have not yet worked with OTR, from the videos it looks like it would be easy enough to add other reverbs for whatever audio you wanted... and of course reaper has that wonderful 'wet' knob on all VST's just in case a given VST does not include a wet\dry mix control.

It just looks to me that whatever you wanted to do is very possible...

Hey I might be correct... or not... LoL
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Old 02-07-2017, 11:58 AM   #68
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I'd like to introduce Orchestral Template for Reaper (OTR)
This is a very exciting product! Thank you for developing it!

I've been meaning to get into orchestral compositions for a long time, but I've always known that setting up my template would have been a huge undertaking, especially since I would be learning the concepts as I go (quad mixing, articulations, routing, etc.).

It's wonderful to find that someone else has already done all of the hard work!

So some questions:

1) How suitable is OTR for non orchestral compositions (pop songs, prog rock, etc.)? It seems like a lot of its features would still be useful (reverb routing, main output handling, track showing/hiding etc.). Are there categories suitable for non-orchestral pieces?

2) How keyboard friendly are those toolbars? Is the toolbar structure also available via a menu tree that can be navigated with the cursor keys?

3) How suitable is OTR for use with Reaper's subproject system? My goal with large scale compositions is to compose in a modular way, with each section being in its own subpoject. This insulates each section from tempo and Time Signature changes of its neighbouring sections.

With film composition, the idea is that each cue is completely isolated in its own subproject, but you still can render the complete project at the top level.

Does it start to become problematic to have dozens of subprojects open, each with the OTR template loaded? How does subproject rendering work, considering that OTR does not render via the main outs?
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Old 02-07-2017, 05:47 PM   #69
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This is a very exciting product! Thank you for developing it!

I've been meaning to get into orchestral compositions for a long time, but I've always known that setting up my template would have been a huge undertaking, especially since I would be learning the concepts as I go (quad mixing, articulations, routing, etc.).

It's wonderful to find that someone else has already done all of the hard work!
You're welcome! And thank you so much. I'm really excited about it!
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So some questions:

1) How suitable is OTR for non orchestral compositions (pop songs, prog rock, etc.)? It seems like a lot of its features would still be useful (reverb routing, main output handling, track showing/hiding etc.). Are there categories suitable for non-orchestral pieces?
You'll be right at home doing pop/rock/country in the template. Just hide out the categories you don't need. As a whole, the categories should cover all main pop/rock/etc categories as well. For example, there are sections for the drum kit, bass, guitars, vocals, background vocals. I'd say the orchestral side of things is pretty much just a normal session template on extreme steroids geared for the potential of in depth surround mixing. So it definitely covers the basics if that's all you want. But the advanced features are there if you need them.
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2) How keyboard friendly are those toolbars? Is the toolbar structure also available via a menu tree that can be navigated with the cursor keys?
If I am understanding your question correctly, any keyboard accessibility to toolbars would be based on Reaper's native ability to select the toolbar with a shortcut and subsequently tab through the buttons. To be honest, that is not something I've ever utilized with Reaper, so I am not sure how that is natively handled. Hopefully someone will chime in here on that front. You've made made me curious on this topic now too.
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3) How suitable is OTR for use with Reaper's subproject system? My goal with large scale compositions is to compose in a modular way, with each section being in its own subpoject. This insulates each section from tempo and Time Signature changes of its neighbouring sections. With film composition, the idea is that each cue is completely isolated in its own subproject, but you still can render the complete project at the top level.
I had a similar question on this topic asked in another forum earlier today actually. I plan on testing it out more completely (possibly tonight or tomorrow), but I do not see any reason why it would not work as expected. There will certainly be a followup answer from me to this in the days upcoming.
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Does it start to become problematic to have dozens of subprojects open, each with the OTR template loaded? How does subproject rendering work, considering that OTR does not render via the main outs?
While OTR bypasses the master outs for rendering. the audio still flows out the master outs for monitoring so technically, everything should work as it is intended within Reaper's subproject system. If I had to wager a guess, I'm guessing Reaper treats subproject as nothing more than a duration and a multi-out rendered track until it is opened up. So as long as you are only diving into one subproject at a time, I can't see why it would be a bottleneck. Admittedly, I am speaking somewhat blindly to how Reaper handles sub projects natively. But I am going to look into how it is handled and test this further in the days upcoming to provide some better clarity on this.

But I will say this - the larger a project becomes in track count, the higher the idle state becomes on your CPUs. That's the case with any audio engine. But Reaper handles it way better than every other DAW available. So, just speaking logically... if you have a thousand track template being used in a subproject, the way it should be treated is to close out of the subproject once you are finished editing so the CPU isn't taxed unnecessarily. Hope that clarifies some! I'll certainly dive a little deeper into the subproject in the days to come.
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Old 02-07-2017, 06:21 PM   #70
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I just wanted to say thanks for all of the replies and support so far. Today is a special day for me with OTR because I am about to unveil a new video demonstrating what is quite possibly my favorite feature of OTR (at least in what's been unveiled thus far ). This video focuses on QUAD Mixing and I'll also be adding this video to the primary post of this thread as well.

But here's what you need to know. OTR comes preconfigured for QUAD mixing - including bouncing to QUAD stems. No additional setup required. Make sure your 1/2 outputs are connected to your fronts and your 3/4 outputs to your rears. It is really that easy. Reverb/FX channels are preconfigured. No sloppy routing to make it happen either.

But the BIG feature - though please try to stick through the whole video (I know it is long) - is unveiled at around 19 minutes. Skip there if you are short on time. I am most, most proud of this. And I'm sure you may figure out when you see what is unveiled with the ways OTR can handle quad mixing, there will be even more to be revealed along the journey with OTR.

Here's the video: A Primer on Quad Mixing in OTR
https://youtu.be/6iGltkNp2sA
Very cool - though it's difficult to hear the differences through a youtube stereo channel. As to the various options for channeling close / mid / decca / surround mikes to various combinations of front / rear reverbs, that is pretty cool, though it would probably be more practical to have the ability to route to instrument specific reverbs, split up for front and rear (or maybe just one generic rear reverb). For example:

- woodwinds front
- brass front
- percussion front
- strings front
- other instruments

With the ability to insert two different reverbs for each of the 5 above, to make changes in the early reflections, so as to simulate the placement of the instruments on the orchestral stage (strings up closer, woodwinds and brass more to the back, percussion left rear).

For the rear speakers is probably less necessary as the rear reflections are so long.

Attached is a screenshot of my "go to" piano template, EW's Boesendorfer master, with the "San Francisco Hall" true stereo impulses in Spaces, for front / rear. Nick Phoenix, the brains behind this product, once explained how this works - I'm not very technical but the gist is that they recorded convolution reverb impulses in many different halls (and some unusual locations such as caves, swimming pools, abandoned factories etc.) - some of them true stereo, some not. The SF Hall is a true stereo, with different impulses for front and rear, capturing the difference in reflections when you are either in the front or the rear of the hall; so the easiest is to just insert the FR reverb on the front bus (in my case, submaster channel), and the RR on the rear submaster, and you're good to one. Well, for this one piano. Obviously for an entire orchestra there's more routing to be done.





Spaces also has instrument specific reverbs, e.g. the Southern California Hall, with different impulses for each of the instruments, split up by front / rear. Obviously that makes it very easy to set up a template with this particular reverb.





Spaces sounds magnificent - without much if any tweaking - hard to go wrong with this one. Not to mention the glorious GUI. (sounds like I am trying to sell something, I am not!! )
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Old 02-08-2017, 09:48 AM   #71
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Thanks for answering my questions!

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If I am understanding your question correctly, any keyboard accessibility to toolbars would be based on Reaper's native ability to select the toolbar with a shortcut and subsequently tab through the buttons. To be honest, that is not something I've ever utilized with Reaper, so I am not sure how that is natively handled. Hopefully someone will chime in here on that front. You've made made me curious on this topic now too.
I guess I was wondering if the toolbars were also available as standard pull-down menus. I've never played with Reaper toolbars (not a mouse person), so I don't know how they work. I'll experiment when I get some time.

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But I will say this - the larger a project becomes in track count, the higher the idle state becomes on your CPUs. That's the case with any audio engine. But Reaper handles it way better than every other DAW available. So, just speaking logically... if you have a thousand track template being used in a subproject, the way it should be treated is to close out of the subproject once you are finished editing so the CPU isn't taxed unnecessarily. Hope that clarifies some! I'll certainly dive a little deeper into the subproject in the days to come.
That makes sense.

Ok - so suppose I'm just starting to compose a new modular orchestral piece in sections, with each section in its own subproject. But I'm still composing, so I want to start with just piano sketches or string pads in each subproject and flesh out the arrangement later.

At the beginning, I might be flipping rapidly between 20 or so subprojects, each with only a handful of tracks. Does the OTR infrastructure for each subproject contain hundreds of hidden empty tracks behind the scenes? Or does each subproject only contain what I explicitly add?

And can I later add full OTR orchestral categories to a project that just started out as a non-OTR piano sketch? Or do you have to start with the OTR template when you start the project?


Michael
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Old 02-08-2017, 10:58 AM   #72
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For example:

- woodwinds front
- brass front
- percussion front
- strings front
- other instruments
It is there, and already prepared for you I may have glossed over that in the video since I was excited to showcase the big features at 19 minutes, but iduring the first portion of the video, watch as I zoom in on the FX section at 4:41. Actually, start at 4:30 just to have some context. But, at 4:41 you will see exactly this
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Old 02-08-2017, 11:59 AM   #73
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Thanks for answering my questions!
I guess I was wondering if the toolbars were also available as standard pull-down menus. I've never played with Reaper toolbars (not a mouse person), so I don't know how they work. I'll experiment when I get some time.
Ahh! Now I see what you mean. While I have tailored the Reaper pull-down menus to perform the OTR specific actions instead of the Reaper generic actions (where possible), I have not yet put all of the OTR toolbar items into a pulldown menu. For example, if Reaper had a Freeze function in the "Track" pulldown menu, it now performs the OTR freeze action (which includes a few additional subprocesses) instead of performing the basic Reaper Freeze action.

I've also nearly entirely renovated the right-click menu on tracks. You will be able to perform many of the OTR menu-button actions with just a right click (or a keyboard shortcut) instead of having to navigate to the menubar. I will look into adding the menu buttons to the pulldown menu in a future release though.

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Ok - so suppose I'm just starting to compose a new modular orchestral piece in sections, with each section in its own subproject. But I'm still composing, so I want to start with just piano sketches or string pads in each subproject and flesh out the arrangement later.
If the intention is to have a "strings" subproject and a "brass subproject," that may result in an unnecessarily challenging workflow when it comes to the stem rendering process. I don't mean that negatively at all - I'm just speaking with respect to trying to reach the finish line without any hiccups along the way. If you compose in sections because that's your particular workflow, that's perfectly fine. I'd expect many people to do that. Just freeze or render/deactivate those tracks when you are changing sections. You will have the same outcome with less clutter and OTR accommodates that exceedingly well. But the strings, brass, percussion, etc for a particular song should all be in one subproject if they are part of the same movement or song rather than using a subproject render and mixing the sub-project-based sections together to achieve the mix you want. Hope that last part wasn't too jumbled in the way I described it and clarifies what I am trying to say.

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At the beginning, I might be flipping rapidly between 20 or so subprojects, each with only a handful of tracks.
Yep! I'd expect that to be a normal method of approach! I'll use this as the example when I make in the video. I think that could be helpful for everyone.

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Does the OTR infrastructure for each subproject contain hundreds of hidden empty tracks behind the scenes? Or does each subproject only contain what I explicitly add?
The OTR project template contains 160 physical tracks in the stereo version to make it work. Depending on the template, some of those tracks will be stereo, some will be up to 16 channel tracks. That is the baseline.
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And can I later add full OTR orchestral categories to a project that just started out as a non-OTR piano sketch? Or do you have to start with the OTR template when you start the project?
That's a great question, and it will depend on your approach. If you wanted to be very basic during your sketch process, you do not have to load up the OTR template. You could simply load up a blank project, insert your favorite piano VI and go at it. That's probably the quickest way to get going with what you are proposing. But, you will need to copy/paste that track into an OTR project when you are ready to utilize all of the OTR features.

If you have more questions, ask away. The ones you are asking I think will be very great to have on record for other composers looking at the big-picture workflow.
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Old 02-08-2017, 02:41 PM   #74
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Thanks again for the detailed responses!

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If the intention is to have a "strings" subproject and a "brass subproject," that may result in an unnecessarily challenging workflow when it comes to the stem rendering process.
Just to clarify here - when I talk about composing in sections - I don't mean symphonic sections (strings, brass, etc.) - I mean sections of time within a project. Like the film cue example, but with a complete composition.

For instance, with a pop song, you could have a verse section, a chorus section and a bridge section. You could put each section in a subproject, and then arrange the whole composition in the top-level project. Obviously that's a trivial example, and most people wouldn't do that with a pop song.

But for more complicated pieces you might want to, especially if each section has a different tempo or time signature. Or if you want to build a composition up from a variety of pieces.

Kind of like what Brian Wilson tried (and originally failed) to do with the Smile project. Create a bunch of sketches and then assemble them into an album.

(I need a better word than *section* to describe what I mean)
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Old 02-08-2017, 06:05 PM   #75
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It is there, and already prepared for you I may have glossed over that in the video since I was excited to showcase the big features at 19 minutes, but iduring the first portion of the video, watch as I zoom in on the FX section at 4:41. Actually, start at 4:30 just to have some context. But, at 4:41 you will see exactly this
Oh ... I see! I missed that when I first watched the video. Very cool.
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Old 02-08-2017, 06:26 PM   #76
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Thanks again for the detailed responses!



Just to clarify here - when I talk about composing in sections - I don't mean symphonic sections (strings, brass, etc.) - I mean sections of time within a project. Like the film cue example, but with a complete composition.

For instance, with a pop song, you could have a verse section, a chorus section and a bridge section. You could put each section in a subproject, and then arrange the whole composition in the top-level project. Obviously that's a trivial example, and most people wouldn't do that with a pop song.

But for more complicated pieces you might want to, especially if each section has a different tempo or time signature. Or if you want to build a composition up from a variety of pieces.

Kind of like what Brian Wilson tried (and originally failed) to do with the Smile project. Create a bunch of sketches and then assemble them into an album.

(I need a better word than *section* to describe what I mean)
Ah! Well in that case, then yes! Absolutely. Thanks for clarifying. Just know that when using OTR, all reverbs and effects will need to be handled within each subproject (at least in OTR v1.0). The stem rendering will be based on each subproject as well. But all that really means is that if you plan on placing two OTR sub projects up side-by-side, you will probably want to allow for the "tail" on the reverb of the first project to overlap the next section. Otherwise it will sound like a "hard edit."
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Old 02-09-2017, 08:47 AM   #77
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Ah! Well in that case, then yes! Absolutely. Thanks for clarifying. Just know that when using OTR, all reverbs and effects will need to be handled within each subproject (at least in OTR v1.0). The stem rendering will be based on each subproject as well. But all that really means is that if you plan on placing two OTR sub projects up side-by-side, you will probably want to allow for the "tail" on the reverb of the first project to overlap the next section. Otherwise it will sound like a "hard edit."
Good to know! Thanks!

I have no idea if Reaper allows routing between subprojects. I don't think it does currently.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:29 AM   #78
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Good to know! Thanks!

I have no idea if Reaper allows routing between subprojects. I don't think it does currently.
A subproject is basically a submix using the master outs. So, in a way, it does have that possibility but you would lose some of the project-based features within OTR. I am presently exploring how to utilize this for a future update in OTR though. I have some ideas...
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Old 02-10-2017, 09:26 PM   #79
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New video posted demonstrating OTR's "Cue Manager" which is how OTR natively handles sub-projects within its workflow. I think you'll find it as a great method to begin sketches on a feature film, but also as a great way to manage all of the cues as they get completed along the way.

Hope you enjoy.

https://youtu.be/RUWIWFGydFQ


Also - just a side note, I should be posting the TrackPack listings this weekend. I'll probably make a video on those as well when I get a chance. The final tally for the 11 TrackPacks consists of over 1600 total tracks (some articulation based, but most are single lane VIs with drum kits being pre-setup with the outputs mapped for multichannel mixing within OTR). All of these can be added to a session at the push of a button. HOWEVER - I want to stress this... It may sound exciting to build a 1000+ track template because ... well, with OTR+Reaper, it is easy to do. But, the best way - and most efficient way - to handle your workflow is not to load in everything and try to save a monster template. That's why TrackPacks exist The way to handle your template creation for your sessions is to create the basic instrumentations you use regularly and then use the pre-made TrackPacks or create your own TrackPacks to load in the extra stuff with only a right click. It is an entirely different concept to how other DAWs handle this problem. Take advantage of the simplicity of a Template, knowing that it can be as complex as you want it to be when the time comes.
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Old 02-11-2017, 04:37 PM   #80
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Sorry if I missed something in the discussion.
What is included in terms of manual and updates down the road?
Do you anticipate there will be improvements and evolutions in the future, if so how are they to be funded?
I assume making one's own "trackpack" for obscure or bespoke VI's is simply a case of following the pattern of the provided ones?

Last edited by Guod3; 02-11-2017 at 04:42 PM. Reason: added more
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