Old 06-22-2017, 06:07 AM   #1
Mercado_Negro
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Default v5.50rc3 - June 22 2017

v5.50rc3 - June 22 2017
# API: RecursiveCreateDirectory() returns nonzero on success on all platforms [t=193081]
# Automation items: add option to remove/preserve points in underlying envelope when creating automation items [p=1856468]
# Automation items: create new automation items within time selection if any, regardless of edit cursor position [p=1856644]
# Automation items: fix adding edge point to underlying envelope when creating automation items and not automatically connecting left edge
# Automation items: fix auto-trim-behind when moving multiple automation items at once [p=1856913]
# Automation items: improve automation recording around automation item edges
# Automation items: option to attach automation items to underlying envelope on left/both sides is now a project setting
# Automation items: prevent multiple copies when free item positioning is enabled [p=1856913]
# Automation items: prevent unnecessary edge points when gluing items [p=1856622]
# Envelopes: action to insert 4 points at time selection, and envelope control panel knob, does not affect underlying envelope beneath automation items
# Envelopes: fix editing unselected points that have the same time position as the last of a set of selected points [p=1857169]
# Envelopes: update cut/copy/paste context properly when marquee selecting automation items
# Metronome: fix peak display when using triplets
# Spectral Edits: improve drawing during continuous scroll playback

Full changelog HERE
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Old 06-22-2017, 06:35 AM   #2
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I'm still seeing this behavior in the RC3:



I'm always pasting pooled items there (you can see how my first attempt fails and REAPER creates new items) and once I've pasted a few of them and hit Ctrl+Z a few times items start moving like that.
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Old 06-22-2017, 07:31 AM   #3
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Still unable to run actions on selected points, only on selected AIs
This goes entirely against Reapers actions system, cant even slice an AI to run actions on the sliced AI, you have to slice it then glue it, then reselect it.
If you don't glue it it still runs the actions on both AI that were split (No pref to make split AIs unique that i can find)
After you have glued you have to reselect it or it adjust the end points of the split AIs (No idea what this is all about if it is expected behaviour)
This is one of the worst workflows it could possibly ever be.
Yes it only concerns actions, but Reaper is simply nothing at all without its actions, it is its most important feature.

https://media.giphy.com/media/xUA7aO...xULm/giphy.gif



As can be seen in that GIF, it is an absolutely horrid workflow just to adjust a few points.
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Old 06-22-2017, 07:40 AM   #4
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Still unable to run actions on selected points
The "reduce number of points" actions have always worked with points within time selection, not selected points. The reason being that you are most likely to want to reduce points within a particular time selection, as opposed to a non-contiguous selection of points.

So regardless of whether that would be a useful addition, it's not a regression or change in behavior. Are there any actions that work on selected points in regular envelopes that do not work on selected points in automation items?
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Old 06-22-2017, 10:07 AM   #5
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Again the same bug (one point is not created) :


Last edited by ovnis; 06-22-2017 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 06-22-2017, 10:12 AM   #6
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Bug or not ?

Why the envelope changes his shap when I reduce the AI (connect to the right side is actived) ?


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Old 06-22-2017, 11:45 AM   #7
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Again the same bug (one point is not created)
I can't reproduce either of these two bugs. Is it easy for you to attach a simple project?
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Old 06-22-2017, 11:48 AM   #8
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# Automation items: option to attach automation items to underlying envelope on left/both sides is now a project setting
Where is this? I don't see anything in Project Settings dialog. This is where per-project settings should be, no?

Just available as actions? This is not good enough...

Ideally there should still be global option in Preferences, but possibility to override it per project. Don't you think?
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Old 06-22-2017, 11:57 AM   #9
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Where is this? I don't see anything in Project Settings dialog. This is where per-project settings should be, no?
In the main Options menu, alongside similar project settings like ripple edit, move envelope points with media items, etc. Like those settings, any time you change the setting, new projects will be created with the option set the same way.

jnif was correct that because changing the setting affects how projects sound (rather than just affecting how edits behave), it needs to be a per-project setting. It always needs to be the case that opening a project and playing it is 100% consistent and reproducible regardless of what options have changed while that project was not open.
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:05 PM   #10
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OK, got it. Tweaking my menuset, then...
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Old 06-22-2017, 12:16 PM   #11
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Would be great to have an action for "Remove points from underlying envelope when editing AIs", so we can add it to menus.

Same for "Trim content behind AIs", it's not available in actions.
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Old 06-23-2017, 05:59 AM   #12
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Thanks for fixing the right-boundary automation selection editing bug.
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Old 06-23-2017, 08:38 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by schwa View Post
I can't reproduce either of these two bugs. Is it easy for you to attach a simple project?
https://stash.reaper.fm/30997/4.gif

https://stash.reaper.fm/31001/missing%20point.rpp

(don't move the time selection and move upward the envelope which is inside the time selection)



https://stash.reaper.fm/30998/4.gif

https://stash.reaper.fm/v/31002/bad%20shape.rpp

(pull the right edge of the AI towards the left side)
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Old 06-23-2017, 04:32 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
I'm still seeing this behavior in the RC3:



I'm always pasting pooled items there (you can see how my first attempt fails and REAPER creates new items) and once I've pasted a few of them and hit Ctrl+Z a few times items start moving like that.
I have seen this one a number of times too and it goes back before the rc releases. In my case it was usually when re-opening the project, where some of the alternating pooled items would overlap and go into a half lane like above, fixed my moving them in and out of position. I couldn't find the pattern to reproduce so didn't report and instead did a quick and dirty fix by shrinking the items slightly so they couldn't overlap which was ok in my case since my alternating items started and ended on the same value.

But of course a real fix would be appreciated

Cheers,

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Old 06-23-2017, 05:27 PM   #15
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Default Hitler's rea action to automation items.

As much we love reaper!
hitzaireact.jpg
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Old 06-23-2017, 06:36 PM   #16
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It's difficult to marquee select points when they are near the bottom of the ai. The ai becomes selected instead. I always use a sweeping motion to select points, and this usually results in me selecting the ai instead


https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B8D...ew?usp=sharing
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Old 06-24-2017, 04:24 AM   #17
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I have seen this one a number of times too and it goes back before the rc releases. In my case it was usually when re-opening the project, where some of the alternating pooled items would overlap and go into a half lane like above, fixed my moving them in and out of position. I couldn't find the pattern to reproduce so didn't report and instead did a quick and dirty fix by shrinking the items slightly so they couldn't overlap which was ok in my case since my alternating items started and ended on the same value.

But of course a real fix would be appreciated
Looks like some kind of rounding error. Easy to reproduce by changing project tempo to some other than 120 BPM. No need to use pooled automation items.

Here I'm using "Duplicate automation items" and Undo once at the end.


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Old 06-24-2017, 09:55 AM   #18
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What the actual f**k?That's so pants.
Degree level......
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Old 06-25-2017, 05:03 AM   #19
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The problems described for exampe here: http://forum.cockos.com/showthread.p...hlight=softube still persist ... but i feel it a bit better with this rc3 version

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Old 06-25-2017, 07:35 AM   #20
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The "reduce number of points" actions have always worked with points within time selection, not selected points. The reason being that you are most likely to want to reduce points within a particular time selection, as opposed to a non-contiguous selection of points.

So regardless of whether that would be a useful addition, it's not a regression or change in behavior. Are there any actions that work on selected points in regular envelopes that do not work on selected points in automation items?
For starters there is no time selection in that gif at all, which makes what you are saying complete nonsense, of course it works without time selection, the fact i split an item then glue and reselect it proves it.
You are just avoiding the fact that this simply is horrible workflow.

Just to be clear again, this is not a regression, not sure i ever said it was, it is just a very very poor design that should have never made it over to automation items and leaves them severly hindered.
I know you guys at cockos are guitar band type guys, but you really should listen to some EDM guys on this one, automation items are most powerful for intricate repetitive editing, and you are not seeing that.

And before anybody says it should have been mentioned earlier, it was from day one, much like the multiple destinations was too, this is a last ditch attempt to get these right before they end up partially useful.
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Old 06-25-2017, 10:48 AM   #21
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copy media item in ripple editing mode..

https://goo.gl/WiyYtR

glue bug

https://goo.gl/4vFfAV
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Old 06-25-2017, 11:44 AM   #22
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What the actual f**k?That's so pants.
Degree level......
If you don't have anything useful to report in prerelease threads you should probably refrain from posting.
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:15 PM   #23
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If you don't have anything useful to report in prerelease threads you should probably refrain from posting.
Hmm-ok I will do that when you do that.Your post is nothing but this^?

Think what I posted actually had some usefulness (as also told epicsounds in pm/also trying to police posts) (ahem).
Point being-I posted an opinion related to the topic-I think the devs(or mods here) should consider that>?
I think the automation items are actually a horrendous mess,and that's putting it politely.

Sorry to be 'that guy'- but someone needs to do it= because slack devs need tightening up! [imo]
Dude it's 2017 and we're still currently looking at nothing better than what the c64 offered waaay back in time.
2017 computing needs a good solid kick up the arse to excite people-not drag them down in age old tech and limited views and potentials..

I honestly want cockos (+ users) to excel and be happiest in all they do,realizing this is Justin's/schwa's love child-I like the programme very much and wish the creators be--more creative and accurate in all they do!!
Hugz n kisses.
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:31 PM   #24
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I reported this a couple times in earlier pres but it's still here

regression with actions:
* Envelopes: Move selected points up a little bit
* Envelopes: Move selected points down a little bit

Before, +/- 1dB
in v 5.50 +0.27dB or -0.28dB


either change back or give us new actions for 1dB and 3dB increments.
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:38 PM   #25
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Dude it's 2017 and we're still currently looking at nothing better than what the c64 offered waaay back in time.
I don't recall anything on C64 having automation items, so your argument is void.

Anyways, your "opinion" was somewhat insulting and didn't bring anything that the post above it outlined in a much nicer light, with actual visual example. You just took a shit and left leaving nothing but noise in the thread, really. Don't do that.

With that in mind I'll stop providing more noise regarding this.
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Old 06-25-2017, 12:47 PM   #26
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I don't recall anything on C64 having automation items, so your argument is void.

Don't do that.

With that in mind I'll stop providing more noise regarding this.
Lol-take a closer look at the number of examples in all the pre-releases EvilDragon-see the light.

"Don't do that" -no1 including -you- my friend "tells me" what to do,please get over yourself,and try staying marginally on topic bruv.

Enough noise has been provided yes,thanks.
Lets see how things pan out.
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Old 06-25-2017, 01:07 PM   #27
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When drawing a new AI into the lane with alt/option-drag, there is no tooltip to tell you the length. Would expect this to behave same as drawing an empty MIDI item.
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Old 06-26-2017, 07:26 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
(don't move the time selection and move upward the envelope which is inside the time selection)
Fixed, thanks for posting the project!


Quote:
Originally Posted by ovnis View Post
(pull the right edge of the AI towards the left side)
Hmm, still can't reproduce.
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Old 06-26-2017, 07:27 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by casrya View Post
But of course a real fix would be appreciated
Should be fixed for the next build.
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Old 06-26-2017, 07:43 AM   #30
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For starters there is no time selection in that gif at all, which makes what you are saying complete nonsense, of course it works without time selection, the fact i split an item then glue and reselect it proves it.
You are just avoiding the fact that this simply is horrible workflow.

The "reduce number of points" dialog has two radio buttons at the top: "all points" and "points in time selection only". Obviously the "all points" option works without a time selection.

As far as I can tell, you just want to be able to select points rather than make a time selection, because you consider making a time selection to be horrible workflow.
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Old 06-26-2017, 08:08 AM   #31
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because you consider making a time selection to be horrible workflow.
Thats why we want area selection
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Old 06-26-2017, 09:23 AM   #32
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is there a way to select all pooled copies of an AI?

Something like "Item: Select all other media items that share pooled (ghost) MIDI source data with selected items"
(which doesn't work btw)

Automation items in the Project Bay?
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Old 06-26-2017, 09:28 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
is there a way to select all pooled copies of an AI?

Something like "Item: Select all other media items that share pooled (ghost) MIDI source data with selected items"
(which doesn't work btw)

Automation items in the Project Bay?
Both of these would make an awful lot of sense. Having a new tab in the project bay for AIs seems like a logical extension of it.

And having an action that selects pooled data in a smart way (MIDI items or AIs, depending what the action is executed on) should also be a neat addition.
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Old 06-26-2017, 12:00 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
cant even slice an AI to run actions on the sliced AI, you have to slice it then glue it, then reselect it.
If you don't glue it it still runs the actions on both AI that were split (No pref to make split AIs unique that i can find)
This looks like a bug.
Splitting a single AI, that has no pooled copies, should not create pooled AIs. Splitting a pooled AI should create pooled AIs. The behavior should be consistent with MIDI item splitting behavior.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gpunk_w View Post
After you have glued you have to reselect it or it adjust the end points of the split AIs (No idea what this is all about if it is expected behaviour)
Looks like another bug.
After gluing the AI is selected but the "Reduce number of points..." operation is incorrectly run on the last touched envelope, not on the selected AI. And the last touched envelope after gluing is the underlying envelope because Reaper automatically removes points under the glued AI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro View Post
# Automation items: add option to remove/preserve points in underlying envelope when creating automation items [p=1856468]
Gluing does not respect this new option. I think gluing should not remove any underlying points if this option is set to preserve points.

What are some use cases where user would want to have underlying envelope removed when gluing an AI?

jnif

Last edited by jnif; 06-26-2017 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 06-26-2017, 04:23 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Embass View Post
copy media item in ripple editing mode..
Fixed, thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Embass View Post
glue bug
Hmm, can't reproduce that one.
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Old 06-26-2017, 04:44 PM   #36
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The "reduce number of points" dialog has two radio buttons at the top: "all points" and "points in time selection only". Obviously the "all points" option works without a time selection.

As far as I can tell, you just want to be able to select points rather than make a time selection, because you consider making a time selection to be horrible workflow.
No, as shown in the gif and i think fully explained, what i think is horrible workflow is an action working on a selected automation item, however when i slice that automation item to run an action on only the points i want the action to run on (Because my time selection is linked to loop, that is the way i work and an option you offer, so i assume i am doing it right) i then have to glue said sliced item because selecting it is not enough, then i have to select it again after gluing even though it is already selected (As per the gif)
Yes, this is a horrible workflow just to select some points to run an action.

Maybe clicking on a menu (Yes i could keyboard shortcut, i like the mouse, again an option that is offered so i assume i am not doing it wrong) and then unlinking time selection from loop, creating a time selection around the points, then running the action, then clicking on a menu and relinking time selection and loop.

Pretty sure, click and drag a selection of points and run the action is a much less horrible workflow
Not really sure what the issue is with adding the feature, we can select a point, we can select a multitude of points, is it really that much of a rewrite to have it support actions for people who have a different workflow to you (Linked time selection and loop) ?
If it is then fine, just say so.

But wait, just create a new linked time selection and loop, erm no, a lot (And i mean a lot) of users especially in electronic music will invariably have a loop running while they cut slice tweak and generally work.


Again just to reiterate here, if i seem impolite, sorry about that, it is not my intention to sound entitled or whatever current meme is doing the rounds, it is very very rare a new feature is of any use to me whatsoever, so i am passionate about this being the best it can be, i have already given up on multiple destinations and sources and underlying envelopes being removed entirely as an option, but this one definitely needs sorting.

I am very very grateful to you and your team for implementing AIs, i can only keep repeating this
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Old 06-26-2017, 05:27 PM   #37
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I am very very grateful to you and your team for implementing AIs, i can only keep repeating this
Aye- I feel the same,and maybe previous comments was a little harsh poke.
As long as projects get done with basic default actions and uses,that's the idea i guess.
Just feel there could be some mega wow thing with this-make it really unique/special and even something of a benchmark for other developers to strive for.

Is anybody able to touch screen,or voice command any of these auto points btw?
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Old 06-27-2017, 01:45 AM   #38
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Pretty sure, click and drag a selection of points and run the action is a much less horrible workflow
Are you still talking about reducing the number of points?
I suspect there might be some weird corner-case situations when the selection is not continuous. I suppose the optimization function should take account of all points among the selected ones and probably even the nearest neighbours outside the selection so it could get rather messy...

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Old 06-27-2017, 05:02 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by EpicSounds View Post
Automation items in the Project Bay?
I've been idly watching all the goings on with AI's and occasionally trying it out. The biggest question I have had was whether there was going to be some kind of UI where we could manage AI's.
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Old 06-27-2017, 06:34 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by jnif View Post
Looks like another bug.
After gluing the AI is selected but the "Reduce number of points..." operation is incorrectly run on the last touched envelope, not on the selected AI. And the last touched envelope after gluing is the underlying envelope because Reaper automatically removes points under the glued AI.f
Ah, thank you! Yes that is the element I was not understanding in the screencap.
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