Old 07-09-2018, 02:44 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by pipelineaudio View Post
What’s the difference of the 67’s vs the 604’s?

I was just about to pull the plug on 6 604’s
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I have no idea actually since I've never used the 604s.
Looks like the V67N is the mellower of the two series. The V67N is transformer based and the 604 series FET based transformerless. The V67N has no HPF or Pad, the 604 does but they occupy the same switch so it's either pad or HPF but not both - V67N has about 10db lower output due to the tranny so I suppose you could say the pad is built in - both series come with the inter-compatible omni/cardioid capsules.

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Old 07-09-2018, 03:12 PM   #42
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I think it's rather subjective, but I've found pencil mics to be better then my large
diaphragm mics for recording many acoustic instrument, especially AcGtr. Like I mentioned
above, my AKG-451s are the ticket. I see they're selling for $500 at Sweetwater.
Just a tad out of my price range but I'll take a look anyway.
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:24 PM   #43
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The MXL V67Ns are great (I loosely hinted at them above - also comes with and additional Omni capsule), I have two of them and for acoustic and some other sources I choose them over my KM184s - mostly because the 184s roll off @ 200Hz where the 67Ns are full range and the 184s can be too "soft & pretty" on things like cymbals/acoustic gtr depending on genre IMHO.
I'm using an MXL v57m at the moment and I like it's rather full sound. I've also used it for vocals and even voice over projects at times. I did an entire documentary on Vietnam with it. Most everyone loves the way it sounds. But I just think that maybe there's something better out there, at a reasonable price point that just might be perfect for this guitar and if it works for voice, vocals and guitar cabs then it's a bonus.

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Anyone want to buy a mint condition Senn e609?
I actually considered that mic until I read your opinion of it. It is now OUT of the running!

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Looks like the V67N is the mellower of the two series. The V67N is transformer based and the 604 series FET based transformerless. The V67N has no HPF or Pad, the 604 does but they occupy the same switch so it's either pad or HPF but not both - V67N has about 10db lower output due to the tranny so I suppose you could say the pad is built in - both series come with the inter-compatible omni/cardioid capsules.
Could having 10db lower output be a problem? If so, would my CL-1 fix it?
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Old 07-09-2018, 03:40 PM   #44
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Just a tad out of my price range but I'll take a look anyway.
Yeah Jeff, I didn't mean that you should get that mic, I was simply replying to the pencil mic thingy. I think
small diaphragm pencil mics tend to keep out some of those lower obnoxious frequencies that tend to sound muddy.

One thing about recording acoustic guitar is that room acoustics are a huge factor, in fact I think they're much
more important than the mic you use. I truly believe that in a good acoustically treated room I can get a good
recording from most any acoustic guitar regardless of which mic I use.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:02 PM   #45
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Could having 10db lower output be a problem?
I'd imagine not because it's a comparison to it's gain vs the other mic and... I never knew it did until I read the data points on recordinghacks.com today - IOW, when using it, low output never entered my mind.

I agree with Tod on the room, a room that has problems sort of finds a way to "pee on" everything that goes into the mic, and it can't fixed in the box because removing it requires removing the bad and the good - bad rooms also require micing defensively instead of creatively which is a big deal IMHO - I battled with that for years. My biggest thing while building my mic collection over the years was always more about flavors and variety of choice, rather than some holy grail of microphone.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:13 PM   #46
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One thing about recording acoustic guitar is that room acoustics are a huge factor, in fact I think they're much
more important than the mic you use. I truly believe that in a good acoustically treated room I can get a good
recording from most any acoustic guitar regardless of which mic I use.
I'd second that.

Player, then room, then mic, in order of importance.

Also, I'd say that if it is a part in a rock song, then don't be afraid of sticking an SM57 in front of it. Sometimes you don't want all that transient detail, high end shimmer or super lows in it.

On a bit of a tangent; has anyone here tried mic'ing up the bottom of the guitar? As in, near where the rear strap button would be? I tried it on a tip a few months ago and it worked surprisingly well. Nice tone without having to battle string squeaks and plucking noises. Apparently it's how Nick Drake's guitar was recorded.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:15 PM   #47
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On a bit of a tangent; has anyone here tried mic'ing up the bottom of the guitar? As in, near where the rear strap button would be? I tried it on a tip a few months ago and it worked surprisingly well. Nice tone without having to battle string squeaks and plucking noises. Apparently it's how Nick Drake's guitar was recorded.
I haven't specifically but I do use a two mic setup where one is over my right shoulder about head high (when seated), few inches out from the guitar, pointing directly at the floor.
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:22 PM   #48
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I haven't specifically but I do use a two mic setup where one is over my right shoulder about head high (when seated), few inches out from the guitar, pointing directly at the floor.
Interesting! Do you usually sum to mono or stereoize the two mic's?
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Old 07-09-2018, 04:52 PM   #49
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Interesting! Do you usually sum to mono or stereoize the two mic's?
Either or both. Which is what I like about it, it's wide enough that you can pan hard and leave just enough room for a vocal in the middle; one in the middle and one to one side. Or blend or drop to one if that sounds best. It's basically this setup:

https://youtu.be/ugoS5gfOaCw?t=91

Hence the comment earlier about micing creatively vs. defensively.
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Old 07-09-2018, 05:42 PM   #50
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On a bit of a tangent; has anyone here tried mic'ing up the bottom of the guitar? As in, near where the rear strap button would be? I tried it on a tip a few months ago and it worked surprisingly well. Nice tone without having to battle string squeaks and plucking noises. Apparently it's how Nick Drake's guitar was recorded.
I think I've tried every position possible. Back in the old days (70s & 80s) when I had good hearing, I'd move my right or left ear around the guitar while it was being played. It wasn't difficult to find the sweet spots. That worked pretty well, even if the acoustics weren't bad but not the best.

Like Karbo mentions, correcting bad acoustics is probably the battle that most folks face today.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:30 AM   #51
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Coming straight down from overhead can minimize room & boom...of course, depending on a plethora of things.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:43 AM   #52
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I've done the standard hole+12th fret, but also found that you can find some nice tones from the back of the body of the guitar, so I sometimes put a small condenser behind pointing at the body. I try to keep the distances from the guitar to the mics the same.


@Tod, I'm with you here … I used to tune up my twin carb sports car by ear in the 70's- decouple them and then use a bit of hose to listen to the tones and adjust until they produced the same note on "suck"! Ears now kaput!

dB
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Old 07-10-2018, 03:33 PM   #53
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First I want to thank everyone who contributed. Much appreciated! I haven't made a choice yet but here's a list of mics that I'm considering:

CM47 FET

AKG 451

SE X1 S

MXL V67N

I have some other suggestions from other sources but it looks like it's down to one of the above.

Again, much appreciate all the suggestions! It's what makes this forum a great place to be!
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Old 07-11-2018, 04:32 AM   #54
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Great let us know what you get and how it/they perform …

If your ears are still good (!!!), try the Tod method to find a sweet spot. And, do listen behind the player too, you might be surprised what you find there ;-)

dB
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Old 07-11-2018, 09:58 AM   #55
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Great let us know what you get and how it/they perform …

If your ears are still good (!!!), try the Tod method to find a sweet spot. And, do listen behind the player too, you might be surprised what you find there ;-)

dB
Will do!
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:33 PM   #56
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Am I completely crazy for thinking the new Slate Ml-2 could be worth a punt here?

Have seen people say they hold their own against far more expensive mics than this budget selection.
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Old 07-11-2018, 01:57 PM   #57
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If I was spending 150 plus on an SDC, I don't know that I'd even consider anything else. That system looks really trick!

For the decoding side of it, can you just run it as a VST after recording, or does something have to be done ahead of time?
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:20 PM   #58
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If I was spending 150 plus on an SDC, I don't know that I'd even consider anything else. That system looks really trick!

For the decoding side of it, can you just run it as a VST after recording, or does something have to be done ahead of time?
Nothing special. Record clean (with modelling in the monitor chain if you like) or just add as a plug after recording.
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Old 07-11-2018, 03:37 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Tod View Post
I think it's rather subjective, but I've found pencil mics to be better then my large
diaphragm mics for recording many acoustic instrument, especially AcGtr. Like I mentioned
above, my AKG-451s are the ticket. I see they're selling for $500 at Sweetwater.

I love those, but I suspect AKG is phasing them out as they are/were half price at Thomann's a few weeks ago.

However, there's a far cheaper option:

https://www.kirstein.de/nl/Live-Stud...on-zilver.html

These mics come with a new Chinese capsule that's maybe even as good as an AKG. I have played with the previous version and that one is already good. According to someone who knows mics, the new ones are even better.

And FWIW, I often prefer SDC's over LDC's. And so does B&K, fi.
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Old 07-11-2018, 08:00 PM   #60
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I think of a Seagull to be kind of bright kind of like in the ballpark of a Taylor guitar so I really like to have options to get it to sound like different things. When I want my nice Taylor to sound more Gibson'y...I use a Cascade Fathead II Ribbon and it thickens things up very nicely and you get that classic strumming sound. I use a SDC for more clicky rhythmical thing and a LDC to kind of keep it bright but still big sounding and mix 2 for shades of each. I would definitely consider the Fathead because it also EQ's well and it gives you this expensive sounding brightness instead of shrill. My other favorite would be a C414xls but that is out of your price range but then consider the M179 which is in a similar ballpark for an LDC. Good sounding SDC's are tougher to get inexpensive unfortunately...a company really needs to make a nice darker sounding SDC with a smooth top end because most don't do it which is why km84's still go for a lot of money. With Neumann redo-ing all their mics I'm sure it's on the burner because they are killing making the u47fet and u67. I use a Josephson c42 but I'm always looking for a less bright alternative but the c42 does sound very good on darker sources. I will throw out some sound examples on my Taylor so get you some ideas of the mic differences.
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Old 07-11-2018, 10:10 PM   #61
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I don't consider this guitar bright at all. It sounds pretty even to my ears. I'd like to hear your samples though.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:19 AM   #62
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Another big fan of mid range mics here too :-)

I've also had good results with the AKG C451s on drum overheads and acoustic guitar.

Most used recently in the small diaphragm category have been the Oktava MK012s. Used for drum overheads, acoustic guitar, electric guitar amp, vocals, room mics, and who knows what else. They have interchangeable capsules for omni, cardioid and hypercardioid pickup patterns. Very, very useful.

I've also been firing up the RM5 ribbon from Bumblebee Pro audio on most recordings recently to see what it is like. Sounds amazing on strings, vocals, acoustic guitar, kick drum, snare bottom, backing vocals. Hours of fun and productive recordings with the possibilities of figure 8 patterns, mid side and Blumlein setups :-)

If anything, and stereo is not a concern, I'd say you can get a lot from two very different types of mic, e.g. ribbon and SDC.

Sorry to muddy the waters if you've already decided!

Cheers,
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:25 AM   #63
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I did some recordings with some different mics and you can download the link here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7hnqbovxdq...0Mics.zip?dl=0

AKG 414xls, CAD M179, Cascade Fathead II Lundahl, Josephson C42, Manley Reference Cardiod, Neumann TLM103, SE Electronics X1R, and a Shure SM57 for reference. I know the Manley Ref is way more expensive than the others but it does sound really good on acoustic. It's a big folder because I left them 24bit WAV. Please load them into Reaper and put some EQ on them because none of them have any of their rolloffs on and all are cardiod except the 2 ribbon mics which are F8. At least roll off the lows to around 80-120 and add some highend to the ribbon mics to get them in the ballpark of the others. I just did some strumming and then some single note stuff to vary it at least a little.

Taylor 514ce with bronze strings to darken it up, TRUE P-Solo mic preamp, Cloud Lifter Z on the ribbon mics only on 3000 no rolloff,
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:48 AM   #64
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I recorded this http://alonetone.com/craigd/tracks/riden-the-wind with these mics about 10 year ago
https://www.amazon.com/Samson-C02-Pe...rds=samson+co2

One mic at the 12th fret one over my right shoulder.

Started installing Lyric acoustic guitar mic's in my acoustic's a few years ago, love them https://www.lrbaggs.com/pickups/lyri...ar-microphone/
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Old 07-12-2018, 06:59 AM   #65
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FYI it's tough to judge microphones by listening to a recording if you weren't there when it was recorded. It can expose if a mic is broken, unusually noisy or has some problem but usually not so good for evaluation in general IMHO. Comparing two can have some value but it still leaves out the "what does it sound like if I were standing there" part.
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:46 AM   #66
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FYI it's tough to judge microphones by listening to a recording if you weren't there when it was recorded. It can expose if a mic is broken, unusually noisy or has some problem but usually not so good for evaluation in general IMHO. Comparing two can have some value but it still leaves out the "what does it sound like if I were standing there" part.
Right, but you can't come over though so this is as good as it gets. . Plus everybody knows what a 57 sounds like so you can compare to that.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:01 AM   #67
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Right, but you can't come over though so this is as good as it gets. . Plus everybody knows what a 57 sounds like so you can compare to that.
Yea I get, didn't mean to devalue your reply, especially since you had multiple comparisons. You are only 2 hours from me so I'll be right over.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:47 AM   #68
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Sorry to muddy the waters if you've already decided!

Cheers,
Jennifer
Not at all! I haven't decided yet...

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Originally Posted by camerondye View Post
I did some recordings with some different mics and you can download the link here:
Wow, that took some time and effort. Thank you much! I appreciate it!

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Originally Posted by CraigD View Post
I recorded this http://alonetone.com/craigd/tracks/riden-the-wind with these mics about 10 year ago
https://www.amazon.com/Samson-C02-Pe...rds=samson+co2

One mic at the 12th fret one over my right shoulder.
Thanks for sharing! Nice playing and it sounds good.

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FYI it's tough to judge microphones by listening to a recording if you weren't there when it was recorded. It can expose if a mic is broken, unusually noisy or has some problem but usually not so good for evaluation in general IMHO. Comparing two can have some value but it still leaves out the "what does it sound like if I were standing there" part.
Absolutely true. But when I listen to Deep Purple or Dream Theater or whoever, I wasn't there when it was recorded but I like the end result. I totally understand that any given mic will probably sound different depending on the guitar used, the room and a dozen or more other variables.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:49 AM   #69
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I went through this last summer with my Martin; I also have an SM57 and I wanted something "better". I tried out all sorts of condenser mikes, some of them very expensive, and ended up keeping the SM57 and all that money. I was really hyped when I borrowed the Audio Technica, and then the SM 57 sounded just as good to me.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:09 AM   #70
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I went through this last summer with my Martin; I also have an SM57 and I wanted something "better". I tried out all sorts of condenser mikes, some of them very expensive, and ended up keeping the SM57 and all that money. I was really hyped when I borrowed the Audio Technica, and then the SM 57 sounded just as good to me.
Yeah, that sounds about right, I've used several Audio Technicas and they do kind have a
muddy sound that I think is closer to a SM57 then my other condensers. The big difference
is the Audio Technica doesn't have the proximity affect.
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Old 07-12-2018, 11:46 AM   #71
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I also have a Rode NT1a and prefer the Samson C02's I listed above, 2 pencil condenser mic's for $110 not to bad.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:51 PM   #72
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I love those, but I suspect AKG is phasing them out as they are/were half price at Thomann's a few weeks ago.

However, there's a far cheaper option:

https://www.kirstein.de/nl/Live-Stud...on-zilver.html

These mics come with a new Chinese capsule that's maybe even as good as an AKG. I have played with the previous version and that one is already good. According to someone who knows mics, the new ones are even better.

And FWIW, I often prefer SDC's over LDC's. And so does B&K, fi.
That Pronomic SCM-1 mic has the same specs and looks very similar to the MXL 991 mics I picked up a few years ago. I bought two 990/991 packages for $79 each. Decent mics for the money.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:21 PM   #73
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Are there any cheap side address small diaphragm condensers?
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:50 PM   #74
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Today a friend suggested I look at at an sE Electronics sE 8. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of this mic?
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:09 AM   #75
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Today a friend suggested I look at at an sE Electronics sE 8. Does anyone have any experience or knowledge of this mic?
I wrote about them in this thread!

Very nice, natural sound.

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...1&postcount=36
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Old 07-13-2018, 02:54 AM   #76
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That Pronomic SCM-1 mic has the same specs and looks very similar to the MXL 991 mics I picked up a few years ago. I bought two 990/991 packages for $79 each. Decent mics for the money.
I bought an MXL991 as a leftover from a 990/991 combo a few years ago, for 29 €. I like it.

The Promomic looks like some others, but the internals are quite different. I guess that German retailer wanted it's own version.

There's one mod possible, that's tuning the FET bias current. Haven't tried it yet. Too many mic mods lining up...
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:16 AM   #77
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I love my Swedish Line Audio mics on acoustics. A pair of cardioid CM3s or omni OM1s are around $300. Use them constantly. Lots of good information about them in gearslutz threads. I also get a lot of use from my U.S. made Little Blondie omnis, also around $300 for a pair. But if I were to choose one of these as an acoustic + all around other mic it would be the CM3s. Omnis are great if you're covered by some cardioids but not as a main condenser in a two mic set.
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Old 07-13-2018, 11:15 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by Judders View Post
I wrote about them in this thread!

Very nice, natural sound.

https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...1&postcount=36
Ah, yes! I remember seeing that. Added to the consideration list.
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Old 07-13-2018, 06:13 PM   #79
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Are there any cheap side address small diaphragm condensers?
AT2020 https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/w...0e2/index.html

I've seen the diaphragm size somewhere but don't find it in the current specs.

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Old 07-13-2018, 07:23 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Fran Guidry View Post
AT2020 https://www.audio-technica.com/cms/w...0e2/index.html

I've seen the diaphragm size somewhere but don't find it in the current specs.

Fran
For some reason I remember that mic having a 'midsized' diaphragm, between the size of an sdc and ldc.
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