Time for a control surface - Page 2

HIO · 10-12-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Morris

Really? Is that speculation or is that really how hard it is going to be to get proper control surface integration into Reaper?

Maybe Cockos could slut it up a bit and get in bed with some hardware makers too!

They are all in bed alright and with a king size mattress to boot. If someone in the know would just start writing dll files for the different boards out there they could charge for those who want it. I spent what seems like a month trying to get my board to work in Sonar and then finally this guy wrote me a dll file and my board worked beautifully with full functionality. Yamaha goes by the Pro Tools protocol and my board works in Pro Tools, Cubase, Nuendo, and now Sonar but Sonar won't tell you that. I posted my discovery and how to do it over at their forum years ago and in a Yamaha forum.

Nick Morris · 10-12-2011, 02:09 PM

great. Now what?

HIO · 10-12-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Morris

great. Now what?

LOL!!! As the OP (that's you) of this excellent thread, I hereby commission you to recruit, promote, advertise, encourage, and befriend anyone that can write and create .dll files that can enable popular mixing boards to work as control surfaces with Reaper. If you so choose to take on this most arduous task and succeed, you and the coder will be honored by Reaperites everywhere for all eternity and you will always be welcome in my studio with free food, libations and free perks. You are now my hero Nick, good luck and God bless.

Mercado_Negro · 10-12-2011, 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yagonnawantthatcowbell

are you able to control vsts with it? if you are, are you getting feedback on the csurf from the vsts? Can you control sends with it? width?

M-Audio Projectmix I/O here.

Yes to all. Using Klinke's extension, sorry.

tryharder · 10-12-2011, 05:25 PM

I want what Nick Morris wants. Yes Reaper needs a pro controller stat. I love Reaper, but hate the whole mouse keyboard thing.

Personally, I'd like at least 24 motorized faders and all types of high quality knobs and jog wheels etc...

Now somebody build the damn thing or write the software that will allow reaper to be fully controlled by one of these other things. please.

yagonnawantthatcowbell · 10-12-2011, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HIO

LOL!!! As the OP (that's you) of this excellent thread, I hereby commission you to recruit, promote, advertise, encourage, and befriend anyone that can write and create .dll files that can enable popular mixing boards to work as control surfaces with Reaper. If you so choose to take on this most arduous task and succeed, you and the coder will be honored by Reaperites everywhere for all eternity and you will always be welcome in my studio with free food, libations and free perks. You are now my hero Nick, good luck and God bless.

No dll files. Reaper works on both windows AND mac. We need a solution that works on both formats.

Nick Morris · 10-12-2011, 08:07 PM

I guess I'll start my digging tonight. Can't hurt to talk to Avid about it, I'll hit my guy up. I do not know anyone at Mackie. Anyone know who to talk to there.

I do not really think I'll be able to get anything done, but here goes.

ivansc · 10-13-2011, 12:11 AM

since mackie hasnt been mackie for quite a while I suspect nobody there is going to be interested in this side of their business.

Shame.

But there are other alternatives like the Allen & Heath mixing board/interface products, which seem to run very very well.
Pretty sure if you really wanted to, one of those would work just fine as a control surface only.

grayter1 · 10-13-2011, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yagonnawantthatcowbell

No dll files. Reaper works on both windows AND mac. We need a solution that works on both formats.

+1. Macs need controller love too...

Nick Morris · 10-13-2011, 09:42 AM

I was given a response from Avid that any software developer can apply for use of the Eucon protocol. It is then up to Avid to review the viability of the partnering and its direction with regards to Eucon. There is a simple form from a link that he sent me.

http://www.avid.com/us/partners/deve...am/audioPlugin

I would hope that Cockos has filled this out already. If not, would you please. This would at least put it into Avids hands to make a decision if Reaper would be allowed Eucon.

EUCON (Extended User Control) High-Speed Ethernet Control Protocol
Avid’s EUCON Control builds on the exciting innovations of Euphonix to allow compatible software applications to communicate with Avid control surfaces. Avid is dedicated to supporting EUCON, broadening its reach and enhancing its features. If you are interested in adding EUCON support to your application, Avid wants to hear from you.

EUCON includes the following features and benefits:

High-speed Ethernet networked control including Gigabit Ethernet
High-resolution (16bit) fader & knob control
Control includes EUCON, HUI & Mackie Control Protocols
EUCON transports trackball & keyboard over Ethernet simplifying cabling
MacOS and PC Compatibility
Controls multiple workstations & applications simultaneously
Control switches to match software application
Support from industry-leading applications including major digital audio workstations.
Allows hardware surface direct access to software application command sets
Allows DAW plug-in control from channel strips
Supports multi-format metering, EQ & Pan curve displays with EUCON aware software applications
Works with Euphonix Artist Series
apply now

HIO · 10-13-2011, 11:04 AM

[QUOTE=Nick Morris
I would hope that Cockos has filled this out already. If not, would you please. This would at least put it into Avids hands to make a decision if Reaper would be allowed Eucon.[/QUOTE]

It is all rigged Nick. Avid now owns Pro Tools and Pro Tools has always done everything they can to control the market and they can only wish they could control a protocol at this stage of the game and I don't see Cockos buying into this. Roland now owns Sonar and Yamaha now owns Nuendo and Cubase and I believe DAWs are getting really stupid except for Reaper of course. However, I will repeat.... Reaper needs control surface support *big* time and I am willing to pay for it. Nothing like hearing a mix come alive with lots of faders. I have experienced a four hand, 16 finger, 4 thumb mix job. No foolin!!!!!!

joaobgb · 10-13-2011, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

M-Audio Projectmix I/O here.

Yes to all. Using Klinke's extension, sorry.

Mercado, how do you control width with ProjectMix? Which mode do you use?
Thanks!

yagonnawantthatcowbell · 10-13-2011, 12:15 PM

I sent mackie (loud tech) an email regarding supporting reaper and they actually did reply within an hour or two:

Rxxxx,

I do not have that kind information and cannot promise anything other than I will forward your email to the product management group. I do not know if they will contact you, but will make sure they see your email.

D. Lee
Technical Support Supervisor

dxxxxxe@loudtechinc.com

Teddy · 10-13-2011, 02:48 PM

I don't understand why reaper can't have a simpler python api for programming controllers, similar to Ableton Live's remote scripting. (read about it here: remotescripts.blogspot.com)

This would lower the threshold for beginners, and maybe get more people involved in programming control surfaces. What do you guys think?

Nick Morris · 10-13-2011, 06:01 PM

I do not know anything about programming a controller. How hard is it now? How deep can you make the integration with this approach?

Wouldn't it be easier to just integrate a really solid protocol already available, and save the end users programing trouble? I like plug and play. No time for plug and develop my gear for a month while I try to get work done. I wish I was younger and had no bills. I would cancel all project sessions and build the sickest controller for Reaper.

Teddy · 10-17-2011, 05:22 PM

The level of integration in ableton is quite good in my opinion. All released control surfaces for ableton live uses this api.

The reason I'm suggesting something similar for reaper is that I think it's simpler and quicker, and that we're already halfway there (ReaScript). I get your point about using what's already available though. I'm very inexperienced with languages that need to be compiled (like c++), and I've always found languages that don't (like python) to be more flexible.

I've just started my last year as a student now, and hope I'll get time to write a sick controller before the bills are coming to get me.

Curranproducer · 10-18-2011, 04:53 AM

man I just want my O2R96 Faders to work in reaper is all. I do not need massive integration. I am happy with Keyboards and mousing around in any DAW. What does that take to make work?!?!?!

HIO · 10-18-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curranproducer

man I just want my O2R96 Faders to work in reaper is all. I do not need massive integration. I am happy with Keyboards and mousing around in any DAW. What does that take to make work?!?!?!

+1 No +111111111 Yammy boards make great control surfaces. Metal casing, tons of 100mm motorized faders that do *not* make noise, rugged, etc. I will repeat, it is a crying shame that it will work in Pro Tools, Nuendo, Cubase, and Sonar (if you have the secret recipe) but not Reaper.

I use Reaper exclusively now because first and foremost I need an audio engine that gives me extremely low latency and never crashes. I record with input monitoring and have the UAD Quad Omni installed in the fastest custom computer that I have built to date.

The only thing I want with this work of art DAW (Reaper) is Surface Controller Support and I am willing to pay for it. Not having this on mixdown is a complete pain and my mixes suffer dearly because of this. I know that many people find they don't need this and would rather have Cockos spend their resources on other things but I beg to question have you ever used multiple faders while using a DAW?

It is the bomb in a good way.

I have always used both hands and maybe even a third or fourth borrowed hand from another humanoid and it can really bring a mix alive especially on mixdown.

Also, in all fairness I understand the politics that is going on behind the scenes and it is crazy. Avid, Yamaha, Roland, etc. and their marketing departments are thinking they would rather have their control surfaces working only with their DAWs rather than selling a ton of surface controller boards.

Sorry if this sounds like a rant.

airon · 10-18-2011, 03:07 PM

You are right. Almost all media we listen to is mixed this way because those methods were, are and will be better. Just ask any APC-40 user, or for that matter ALL the live, broadcast and film mixers.

"Hey we shouldn't be wasting resources on professionals", who might use Reaper. Why don't you want them to use Reaper ? I thought it's for everyone, and not just for the majority mob.

HIO · 10-18-2011, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by airon

You are right. Almost all media we listen to is mixed this way because those methods were, are and will be better. Just ask any APC-40 user, or for that matter ALL the live, broadcast and film mixers.

"Hey we shouldn't be wasting resources on professionals", who might use Reaper. Why don't you want them to use Reaper ? I thought it's for everyone, and not just for the majority mob.

I really liked what you just said/wrote. Solidarity!!!! :-)

mymymetrocard · 10-19-2011, 06:32 AM

just to chime in (as an amateur)

i have a behringer bcr2000 and stuggled massively to get it set up. i couldn;t get klinke's plug working (something to do with x64 as i recall), and spent a long few days setting it up manually, but have no feedback to the device.

i would love beefier integrated control surface support, some kind of control surface editor, anything!

ivansc · 10-20-2011, 02:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mymymetrocard

just to chime in (as an amateur)

i have a behringer bcr2000 and stuggled massively to get it set up. i couldn;t get klinke's plug working

Never had a problem with the bcf2000 and Klinke`s setup, under XP Pro 64 or Win7 Pro 64.

Ya musta bin holdin` yer mouth wrong....(Tennessee for "try it again")

shoyoninja · 10-20-2011, 04:13 AM

Using Klinkles DLLs and TouchDaw for Android.

Works quite well for my needs.

Lynx0849 · 10-24-2011, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curranproducer

man I just want my O2R96 Faders to work in reaper is all. I do not need massive integration. I am happy with Keyboards and mousing around in any DAW. What does that take to make work?!?!?!

And, while we are at it, how about the 01V96 as well? It works with PT.

HIO · 10-24-2011, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynx0849

And, while we are at it, how about the 01V96 as well? It works with PT.

They work with PT, Cubase, Nintendo and I was able to get it working in Sonar with a lot of work but that was back in my 32 bit days. Dunno if my secret recipe along with that .dll file would work now that I am in a 64bit environment.

Anyway the Yammy O2R96, DM2000 and the 01V96 are all built very similar and we should be able get these boards to work in Reaper but I cannot figure out how to do it. I am *not* a coder but I did own a secret decoder ring a long time ago but now I cannot find it. Arrghhh!!!!!

Nick Morris · 10-24-2011, 05:46 PM

Wish I had a secret decoder ring.

and Eucon

yagonnawantthatcowbell · 10-24-2011, 08:21 PM

and.....

...klinke's plugin compiled for mac

dea-man · 10-24-2011, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenneth R.

way out there, but has anyone tried a Tango?

I did once, but I hurt my back, and the orchestra was out of tune!

amsonx · 10-30-2011, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grayter1

+1. Macs need controller love too...

+1
right now i use a BCR2000 thanks to a post here on the forum but really there is the need for a better support on this side for the mac

norbury brook · 10-31-2011, 04:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HIO

It is all rigged Nick. Avid now owns Pro Tools and Pro Tools has always done everything they can to control the market and they can only wish they could control a protocol at this stage of the game and I don't see Cockos buying into this. Roland now owns Sonar and Yamaha now owns Nuendo and Cubase and I believe DAWs are getting really stupid except for Reaper of course. However, I will repeat.... Reaper needs control surface support *big* time and I am willing to pay for it. Nothing like hearing a mix come alive with lots of faders. I have experienced a four hand, 16 finger, 4 thumb mix job. No foolin!!!!!!

Eucon though is like VST, it's a format owned by Steinberg but it's open so anyone can use it.

I have Cubase/Nuendo and Pro tools running on a network of Macs and PC's and it doesn't matter which machine or program I'm using my Euphonix just work with whichever has the focus.

maybe Justin or Schwa can chime in and let us know if there's a cost to adding Eucon support, maybe it would add too much to the price of Reaper, would be nice though, I've not used Reaper for a while because of this.

MC

Nick Morris · 10-31-2011, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norbury brook

I have Cubase/Nuendo and Pro tools running on a network of Macs and PC's and it doesn't matter which machine or program I'm using my Euphonix just work with whichever has the focus.

would be nice though, I've not used Reaper for a while because of this.

MC

This is all I hear, all day long.

HIO · 10-31-2011, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by amsonx

+1
right now i use a BCR2000 thanks to a post here on the forum but really there is the need for a better support on this side for the mac

That puppy has rotary controllers instead of faders. Yuck!!! :-)

HIO · 10-31-2011, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by norbury brook

Eucon though is like VST, it's a format owned by Steinberg but it's open so anyone can use it.

I have Cubase/Nuendo and Pro tools running on a network of Macs and PC's and it doesn't matter which machine or program I'm using my Euphonix just work with whichever has the focus.

maybe Justin or Schwa can chime in and let us know if there's a cost to adding Eucon support, maybe it would add too much to the price of Reaper, would be nice though, I've not used Reaper for a while because of this.

MC

I think you make a good case for Euconocephalus Remotus.

tombuur · 10-31-2011, 02:45 PM

I do wonder too why Reaper doesn't have a way to program controllers. It all works through midi, right? I have plugins and standalone programs with socalled learn function when you move a knob or press a button. Why not something like that for Reaper from a control surface, and then someway to redirect the button/knob to one the built in or SWS functions?

I like Klinke's dll for my Mackie MCU, but I would like to set up my own. At least for all the buttons.

RuairiAU · 10-31-2011, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tombuur

I do wonder too why Reaper doesn't have a way to program controllers. It all works through midi, right? I have plugins and standalone programs with socalled learn function when you move a knob or press a button. Why not something like that for Reaper from a control surface, and then someway to redirect the button/knob to one the built in or SWS functions?

It's not that simple. It's easy enough to do a MIDI learn for output from a controller (and Reaper can do this already), it gets tricky when you need to send information back to move faders, turn on/off lights or even write to a display controller.
Whilst in the broader sense it's just MIDI, understand that MIDI is just the protocol, you have to refer to the hardware manufacturers spec if you want to know how to talk to the controller e.g. http://frontierdesign.com/download/p...Native_1.0.pdf

plant-on · 10-31-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Morris

I can't believe this. I cannot find a single thread about a control surface success story. Nothing seems to work 100%. Why is everything buggy when it comes to a control surface?

Klinke's plugin and BCF2000 is awesome! (on Windows 7)

Only took me a short amount of time to memorise the different combinations of key presses to access the majority of the functionality and now I can pretty much mix without using a keyboard or a mouse (as in adjust levels, pan, send levels, vst parameters, read/write/latch automation, etc.. etc...)

Untamed Spirit · 10-31-2011, 08:58 PM

maybe touchscreens are the way to go?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_PWYj1j_do

amsonx · 11-01-2011, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plant-on

Klinke's plugin and BCF2000 is awesome! (on Windows 7)

Only took me a short amount of time to memorise the different combinations of key presses to access the majority of the functionality and now I can pretty much mix without using a keyboard or a mouse (as in adjust levels, pan, send levels, vst parameters, read/write/latch automation, etc.. etc...)

i've a BCR2000 but i can't use the klinke plugin cause i'm on Mac,

i really want a better control surface but before buy it i want make me sure that this work at the best with Reaper and i'm really confusing about this..

Jeronimo · 11-03-2011, 04:46 PM

If Reaper had a great controller implementation I bet it would gain a good amount of users...
I want Eucon PROTOCOL on Reaper

Nick Morris · 11-03-2011, 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeronimo

If Reaper had a great controller implementation I bet it would gain a good amount of users...
I want Eucon PROTOCOL on Reaper

I keep my fingers crossed every time I go to this forum.