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10-08-2011, 02:17 PM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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Time for a control surface
So I have been loving Reaper and now I want to use a control surface with it. Which ones work, which work great, which ones should you stay away from?
Is Reaper going to be Eucon enabled?
Thanks
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10-08-2011, 02:29 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Newcastle - UK
Posts: 567
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I don't know about Eucon. I have a alphatrack and a novation ZeroSL mkii. I use the alphatrack more with Reaper host and the zero with plugs. If I had only one the Zero would be more vesatlie with Padres's plugin giving a best of both Automap and dynamic reaper control. I would miss the alphatracks fader and useful mixing setup though.
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10-08-2011, 06:55 PM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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Any full featured higher end control surfaces working with reaper?
I found the list of compatible surfaces on the site (I do not want a behringer or mackie) and all of those do not seem to control the software on a deep enough level. So are we screwed when it comes to professional control surfaces? Anything in a large format?
Last edited by Nick Morris; 10-12-2011 at 01:55 PM.
Reason: clearer wording :)
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10-08-2011, 08:48 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 120
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10-08-2011, 09:17 PM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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So are you saying the matrix works with reaper? Does anyone have experience with a high end control surface?
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10-09-2011, 05:39 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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this is so frustrating
I can't believe this. I cannot find a single thread about a control surface success story. Nothing seems to work 100%. Why is everything buggy when it comes to a control surface?
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10-09-2011, 06:28 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 120
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I have a Tascam FW-1884. I use it with Reaper with no problem. When I first set up I assumed I had to use the "Control Surfaces" set up in Options>Preferences menu. I then just added it as an MIDI Device and it just works.
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10-09-2011, 06:50 AM
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#9
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: France
Posts: 743
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris
I can't believe this. I cannot find a single thread about a control surface success story. Nothing seems to work 100%. Why is everything buggy when it comes to a control surface?
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yes it's sad, i can't use my 02R96 too...
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10-09-2011, 07:01 AM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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Ok, we have one confirmed working (tascam fx-1884). I assume the ones in the control surface preference page work. Other than that we have nothing?
Does everyone just live with buggy control surfaces like its part of being a reaper user?
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10-09-2011, 07:35 AM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Berlin
Posts: 11,817
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My cute Presonus Faderport works quite well, but that's only one (rather nice) fader. I'm not a big fan of the buttons, as they require a lot of force to press, but apart from that it's a good, inexpensive unit that I wish had four faders, and not just one.
The Mackie Control Universal is pretty nice with the Klinke plugin, if you're on Windows.
So far however, while being very usable, nothing comes close to responsiveness of the ethernet controllers of Euphonix and Avid(former now part of the latter). The old Procontrol was leaps and bounds better than any MCU I ever used. The Icons are better than that, as are the Euphonix System 5 units, but those cost a lot.
EuCon integration might change that, as I'm sure Avid won't mind selling Icons to folks who don't use Protools in the future. They'r elikely to make new controllers too in the future, so the number of devices you could use will probably go up.
Fun fact on responsiveness of the Presonus Faderport. Don't use a USB hub, but hook it up to your machine directly. Faster response. I use it in HUI mode in Protools over a direct line(fast response though slower than any ethernet controller I've ever used), and in Reaper via a USB hub, because I can, and the latency is higher.
What is nice about Reaper though is that you can use pretty much any midi controller as a control source.
Actual mapping of control resources to dynamically changing targets however requires a custom control surface plugin to be written, which pretty much excludes 99.99 % or more of the user base from implementing their own ideas.
If you want a control surface plugin for a particular device, there is the developer forum section and of course you can request support from it from Cockos via the Issue Tracker.
Last edited by airon; 10-09-2011 at 07:50 AM.
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10-09-2011, 08:17 AM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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I would really like to be able to use a Eucon control surface. I have used the System 5-mc with my previous DAW, Pyramix and now with pro tools. it is amazing how much faster I can edit/work with it. I have gotten so used to it, that now the mousing around is really depressing. I stare at the computer for several minutes contemplating whether or not to actually start the project in pro tools rather than Reaper, just so I can use the control surface.
At my studio, I am the only one using Reaper. Everyone there loves it, but will not use it because it can't be controlled by the Euphonix.
In the end it all comes down to what you can get done quickly. Reaper is by far the best DAW for getting things done quickly, in my opinion of course. The problem is that it is not the quickest as soon as you get to add these control surfaces to even the clunkiest of programs. Suddenly, pro tools is much more solid and elegant to work with, leaving reaper in the dust for most. I think it is time for some real attention to getting control surfaces functioning with Reaper. Eucon seems like the most logical approach. Euphonix/Avid already have cheap (artist series) surfaces that work well, and higher end professional surfaces that can meet the needs of the biggest production studios. (a ton of these control surfaces have been sold, my studio being one of them.)
Until the users of these control surfaces can actually control Reaper, they will stay with Pro Tools, or Nuendo or Pyramix, because they are more efficient that way.
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10-11-2011, 05:05 AM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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NANO
The Korg Nanokontrol 1 and 2 both work really well for almost no money.
I am selling my behringer bcf2000, which also works and of course has flying faders, because the Kontrols are jsut so easy to set up, do all I need in terms of mixing and transport control, plus they take up a minute amount of desk space.
Once you stop thinking in terms of a conventional monster sized mixing console, it becomes a real contender.
Of course, much less useful if you want to use it on vsts, etc., but I do so little heavy duty knob twiddling compared with the muting soloing and mixing side of things, the nanos suit my way of working to a T.
I currently fit 2 kontrols and a pad in the depth of desk space previously occupied by ONE BCF2000.
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10-11-2011, 05:35 AM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 381
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I'm reading this thread carefully. Seems to be quite a few Control Surface threads pumping at the moment. Has there been any response from Cockos on this?
The only negative on Nanopads is that they aren't motorised faders. If they were, I'd be all over them.
For what I want, I'm leaning towards the Euphonix mix desk, but want to wait and see what Reaper does with their support (either yay or nay) before I purchase. If Studio One supports Eucon, then I'd be interested in peeking over the fence to take a look at that.
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10-11-2011, 07:44 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 48
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Control Surface Icon Qcon
Hi, I'm using the Icon Qcon for some time now and am quite happy with it.
( http://www.icon-global.com/ShowPro.aspx?ID=101).
Indeed, it is not fully "integrated", but is able to go well in Mackie Control-mode. For me it is good enough, has 9 touch-sensitive motorized channel faders (8+1 master), LCD display and a real, real console feel. It's quite heavy and somehow going "against" the current trend to iMinimize everything. And it's about 500€ - which is a real bargain.
Some more details here on my page (unfortunately in German): http://www.floyd-groener.de/2011/07/...ler-qcon-icon/
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10-11-2011, 07:52 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,763
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way out there, but has anyone tried a Tango?
http://www.smartav.net/
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10-11-2011, 08:12 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Germany
Posts: 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth R.
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I have to sell my car first...
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10-11-2011, 10:23 AM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris
I can't believe this. I cannot find a single thread about a control surface success story. Nothing seems to work 100%. Why is everything buggy when it comes to a control surface?
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This is where reaper's price factor comes in, I guess.
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10-11-2011, 12:29 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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frustrated daily with this. Eucon where are you?
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10-11-2011, 01:01 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Right between the resonance and the cutoff knob
Posts: 1,907
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Dude, I use an AlphaTrack with no problem.
I also use a Faderport with no problems.
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10-11-2011, 02:13 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenneth R.
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Not willing to put up the money to test out equipment. No time for that.
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10-11-2011, 02:18 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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the faderport and alphatrack are really not going to get it done in a real studio. One fader? Maybe a laptop producer or home studio could find this useful.
I use an system 5-mc with protools, used to use it with pyramix, and now I would really like to stop using protools at the studio and stick with reaper. Eucon is a must at my place. It speeds up the workflow so much that nobody wants to touch Reaper there.
Professional control surfaces are needed.
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10-11-2011, 02:44 PM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Right between the resonance and the cutoff knob
Posts: 1,907
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris
the faderport and alphatrack are really not going to get it done in a real studio. One fader? Maybe a laptop producer or home studio could find this useful.
I use an system 5-mc with protools, used to use it with pyramix, and now I would really like to stop using protools at the studio and stick with reaper. Eucon is a must at my place. It speeds up the workflow so much that nobody wants to touch Reaper there.
Professional control surfaces are needed.
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Ah yes, elitist snobbery at its finest. One day I hope I can grow up and be as great as you and have a "real" studio. Please sir, will you belittle us poor folk with pretend studios some more?
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10-11-2011, 02:47 PM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 369
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I have two Yamaha boards gathering dust because all I want from them is a control surface with a ton of faders. I have been asking for this for years and have used them beautifully with other DAWs. With every Reaper upgrade, I look for this and sniff-sniff. I love Reaper though and maybe someday I will be able to mix down like I used to. I am willing to pay a small fortune for this functionality but then a small fortune in these tough economic times is kind of subjective now isn't it.
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10-11-2011, 06:00 PM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2
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control surface
I use the M-audio projectmix i/o with no problems at all
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10-11-2011, 06:19 PM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 344
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are you able to control vsts with it? if you are, are you getting feedback on the csurf from the vsts? Can you control sends with it? width?
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10-11-2011, 06:32 PM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris
...(snip)....
In the end it all comes down to what you can get done quickly. Reaper is by far the best DAW for getting things done quickly, in my opinion of course. The problem is that it is not the quickest as soon as you get to add these control surfaces to even the clunkiest of programs. Suddenly, pro tools is much more solid and elegant to work with, leaving reaper in the dust for most. I think it is time for some real attention to getting control surfaces functioning with Reaper....(snip)...
Until the users of these control surfaces can actually control Reaper, they will stay with Pro Tools, or Nuendo or Pyramix, because they are more efficient that way.
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This is really the crux of it. It's like a brand new car manufacturer putting out the fastest, most technologically advanced car the world has ever seen. And inside this car everything from the accelerator, brakes, radio, sat nav, seats, etc is all controlled from the steering wheel.... and you can only press one button at a time. Might be fun to play with, but you could never do any serious driving in it.
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10-11-2011, 06:52 PM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yagonnawantthatcowbell
are you able to control vsts with it? if you are, are you getting feedback on the csurf from the vsts? Can you control sends with it? width?
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I've managed to Automate sends in the AlphaTrack plugin but not by using the API method (as it doesn't work). I do it by sending MIDI CC values to the command 'Automation lane: Set active fader (MIDI CC only)'. However, this is a one way communication, there is no feedback.
I'm fairly sure there are no events to capture when automation or FX parameters change. Only basic things like volume, pan, main mute etc raise events in the SDK and thus can send feedback to the controller. Feel free to correct me anyone and point me in the right direction if I have this wrong.
I do agree with the OP, control surfaces do need a bit of lovin. Maybe we could ask Justin and the boys to down tools for a bit jump on this.
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10-11-2011, 08:36 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rictheobscene
Ah yes, elitist snobbery at its finest. One day I hope I can grow up and be as great as you and have a "real" studio. Please sir, will you belittle us poor folk with pretend studios some more?
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Seriously? I don't mean to belittle you. I just do not think products like the alphatrack or faderport belong in the discussion of a professional control surface. (They have one fader, and are NOT aimed at replacing a keyboard or mouse, but to work along side them). If they work for you and do everything you need, well great.
I would love to see a commercial studio doing work on a faderport.
Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
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10-11-2011, 08:41 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yagonnawantthatcowbell
are you able to control vsts with it? if you are, are you getting feedback on the csurf from the vsts? Can you control sends with it? width?
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Glad someone understands that there needs to be some deep control, not just a moving fader and a pan pot.
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10-11-2011, 08:49 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris
Seriously? I don't mean to belittle you. I just do not think products like the alphatrack or faderport belong in the discussion of a professional control surface. (They have one fader, and are NOT aimed at replacing a keyboard or mouse, but to work along side them). If they work for you and do everything you need, well great.
I would love to see a commercial studio doing work on a faderport.
Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt it.
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http://www.imagingdogs.com/
The Reaper user 'Pascal' works for this radio production company and he uses the AlphaTrack. He actually helped design the automation control of the plugin and tested it.
I think the question is really what is a commercial studio these days when anyone with a PC and some cheap hardware can get a very good quality production.
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10-11-2011, 09:31 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuairiAU
http://www.imagingdogs.com/
The Reaper user 'Pascal' works for this radio production company and he uses the AlphaTrack. He actually helped design the automation control of the plugin and tested it.
I think the question is really what is a commercial studio these days when anyone with a PC and some cheap hardware can get a very good quality production.
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Well, there you go. We found one. I do not know, but I am assuming that this is a one man studio(radio production) where outside producers do not come through with artists they are working with. This kind of studio would be perfect for this type of controller.
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10-11-2011, 09:35 PM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,598
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MCU Pro + Extender + Klinke DLL.... no problems here
(not since warranty upgrade to Mackie 4.0 versions of both)
Jedi
__________________
I'm simply no longer here
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10-11-2011, 09:55 PM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Perth, Australia
Posts: 438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris
Well, there you go. We found one. I do not know, but I am assuming that this is a one man studio(radio production) where outside producers do not come through with artists they are working with. This kind of studio would be perfect for this type of controller.
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No doubt. But I think you've kinda derailed your own thread a bit here. Regardless of what type of controller you have, it would be great if the devs spent a bit more time fleshing out the support.
It's great that they have an API, but it doesn't quite have all the connectors to fully flesh out the more feature rich controllers.
If anyone should be writing plugin software, it should be the manufacturers. If enough people approach them they'll see Reaper as a serious player in the market and write some good plugins.
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10-12-2011, 02:28 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Dartmouth, Nova Scotia
Posts: 11,183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RuairiAU
If anyone should be writing plugin software, it should be the manufacturers
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Yeah, typically this is the way it's done.
I have done contract programming for hardware control surface manufacturers.
As an example I coded up software interfaces for Cubendo, DP, Sonar, etc. for one manufacturer, so that's the ad hoc standard method.
Until Reaper I'd never heard of the devs for a particular DAW coding up any control surface solution.
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10-12-2011, 05:34 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geoff Waddington
Yeah, typically this is the way it's done.
I have done contract programming for hardware control surface manufacturers.
As an example I coded up software interfaces for Cubendo, DP, Sonar, etc. for one manufacturer, so that's the ad hoc standard method.
Until Reaper I'd never heard of the devs for a particular DAW coding up any control surface solution.
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Time to bother the hardware folks then.
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10-12-2011, 12:53 PM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Morris
Time to bother the hardware folks then.
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Ain't going to happen because Cubendo is in bed with Yamaha and Sonar is in bed with Roland etc. and they do not want their gear working with Reaper.
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10-12-2011, 12:59 PM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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Really? Is that speculation or is that really how hard it is going to be to get proper control surface integration into Reaper?
Maybe Cockos could slut it up a bit and get in bed with some hardware makers too!
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10-12-2011, 01:35 PM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 344
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Well, mackie isn't yet in bed with anyone. Maybe it's time to knock their doors down. The first manufacturer to fully support reaper is going to sell a bunch of additional units. What would be the best way to get Mackie's attention on this?
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10-12-2011, 01:43 PM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 655
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agreed.
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