Old 05-22-2018, 05:43 PM   #1
jnastic
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Default Considering RME

Hello everyone.

I'm currently using a Presonus Firestudio (the first one) with a Windows 10 PC.

I usually track my band live with amp sims, a VSTi Drum and a few FX for the singer.

Right now, I have no problem tracking/mixing, but the drivers are starting to drive me crazy.

Still, I'd like to upgrade my setup and there's a few used RME Fireface 400 or 800 on classifieds sites. I even saw a very discounted UCX, but it sold too fast.

Also, I only need 2-3 inputs, but I could keep my Firestudio and use its preamps via ADAT.

Now, a few questions :

- will I gain anything, performance wise (latency, CPU)?
- will I improve my sound (preamps)?
- will it be futureproof, if I eventually get a PC with Thunderbolt 3 connectivity?

Thanks for your input!
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Old 05-24-2018, 12:03 AM   #2
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Get an RME. You will never regret it.
Their quality and their drivers are top class and their support is absurdly good in terms of supporting their old products.

I use an old HDSP 9652 pci (NOT pci-e) intrerface that I bought used over ten years ago.
|Still have current drivers and the latest version of TOtalmix works perfectly with it.
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Old 05-24-2018, 04:29 AM   #3
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Agreed with above. Plus, to answer the OP's other question - yes, the pre-amps will be better too.

Futureproofing with Thunderbolt? Don't know... but RME support their legacy devices far longer than many manufacturers, so if it's possible to keep it going on new architecture, I'm sure they will.

Last edited by andyp24; 05-24-2018 at 04:39 AM.
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:21 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc View Post
Get an RME. You will never regret it.
Their quality and their drivers are top class and their support is absurdly good in terms of supporting their old products.

I use an old HDSP 9652 pci (NOT pci-e) intrerface that I bought used over ten years ago.
|Still have current drivers and the latest version of TOtalmix works perfectly with it.
Totally agree here too (I actually use a HDSP 9652 PCI on my Linux box now too!)
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Old 05-24-2018, 05:26 AM   #5
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I've had an RME FF800 for almost 10 years now. I'm so glad I made the investment and it's worth every penny. I've used it on both Windows and OS X since XP and Snow Leopard. It's still active on my Windows 10 Partition and High Sierra. The drivers are stable, TotalMix is amazing and the clock, converters and pre's are great.
I would say you will notice the difference in pre's over your Firestudio.

I've never used any of the Presonus gear as the main interface so I can't compare drivers. And whether or not you will see an increase in CPU performance is up for debate I suppose. In my understanding of computer and digital audio there won't be an increase in CPU performance because once the audio is converted to 1's and 0's, whatever the CPU has to process is what it is. It becomes about the weakest or strongest link in your machine, i.e. solid state vs mechanical HD's, RAM etc.
IMO you will notice a difference in performance in regards to latency and sound quality with the RME.
RME's drivers are great and work well in Reaper. At 88.2khz with a sample buffer of 96 I usually get about 2.9 MS of delay on my output. I can't recall the input delay off hand.

I run my interface through an old Adaptec FW800/400 card with a Texas Instruments chipset via FW400, which is more than enough bandwidth to handle 18 tracks of recording simultaneously at 88.2Khz. I remember reading that there is no benefit to running the FF800 via FW800 unless you're linking more than one Fireface unit. I've used both the 800 and 400 and didn't notice any drop through 400. I needed the 800 ports for some old drives that I'm squeezing every bit of usage that I can! ;-)

In regards to being future proof, whatever PC you decide to upgrade to in the future you will need to make sure there is a Firewire connection. There is no way to upgrade the RME to a Thunderbolt port, and I'm not sure that PC's handle the Firewire to Thunderbolt conversion well. Only Apple offers those adapters AFAIK.
Hope this helped. If you have any other questions shoot me a PM.
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:14 AM   #6
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Thank you everyone for your time, that's great information.
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Old 05-24-2018, 09:53 AM   #7
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Just a heads up...

The FF800 power supply eventually dies - this will take many, many ears if the unit is powered off regularly, however if it has spent lots of time powered on, the capacitors degrade due to heat and it stops working - that supply or it's inclusion into the FF800 could have been designed a little better so..

1. Be aware of this if buying used and see if you can find out if the psu has been replaced yet (about 100 USD used and can be replaced by savvy users).

2. The existing power supply can be easily rebuilt and last much longer by purchasing the capacitors and replacing the manually - I just did this with my ancient FF800 last year.

If used and wasn't powered on all the time, then the original supply probably has plenty of life left in it but the truth is that the PSU (not made by RME) had capacitors of less than desirable quality and a heat issue which caused them to die sooner - I left mine on 24/7 and it died after 5 years for example.

Even with that one known issue, I still prefer RME over almost any other sound card on the Market - they are that good.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
that supply or it's inclusion into the FF800 could have been designed a little better so..
It's not designed, nor built by RME, but by some Taiwanese PSU manufacturer. And it's easy to replace or even repair.

Quote:
1. Be aware of this if buying used and see if you can find out if the psu has been replaced yet (about 100 USD used and can be replaced by savvy users).
A new one is cheaper...

Quote:
2. The existing power supply can be easily rebuilt and last much longer by purchasing the capacitors and replacing the manually - I just did this with my ancient FF800 last year.

If used and wasn't powered on all the time, then the original supply probably has plenty of life left in it but the truth is that the PSU (not made by RME) had capacitors of less than desirable quality and a heat issue which caused them to die sooner - I left mine on 24/7 and it died after 5 years for example.
It's true for a lot of rack gear. Preamps and ADC's tend to get hot and there's no ventilation in a well-filled rack. Leave some room between gear to avoid it.

BTW, Presonus an MOTU have the same problem and are a lot harder to fix. Especially MOTU. These tend to develop weird problems after years in a hot rack. Fortunately MOTU has an exchange program for broken gear that is really affordable. But it's not available for obsolete gear. I have an old one here that works. Sometimes for twelve hours in a row, sometimes only for twenty minutes. Can't find anything wrong with it.

Quote:
Even with that one known issue, I still prefer RME over almost any other sound card on the Market - they are that good.
There's a lot of good ones, but RME's drivers and support are unequalled.
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Old 05-24-2018, 01:43 PM   #9
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It's not designed, nor built by RME, but by some Taiwanese PSU manufacturer. And it's easy to replace or even repair.
Yep, I mentioned that it wasn't build by RME in my post. It is easy to repair but there are 12 caps, and a tiny bit fiddly so I personally would expect someone to have decent soldering experience as it's a bit of a tight fit and it is a power supply with incoming AC from the wall.

Quote:
It's true for a lot of rack gear. Preamps and ADC's tend to get hot and there's no ventilation in a well-filled rack. Leave some room between gear to avoid it.
It is but that's the only device out of my loads of gear that dropped like that after a few years of use some of which is > 20 years old - Well my Egnater Amp did early but that cap that literally shorted and was a one off rather than a design flaw per se in the amp. I think it was the cap and a slight flaw in the PCB because the short found a path to arc through on the PCB.
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Old 05-24-2018, 04:19 PM   #10
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Yes, RME FF800 can get very hot. It's good idea to leave some space at least above it. I almost fried mine leaving on the stage (indoors) powered on between soundcheck and gig in closed 4U soft rack (RME was only thing in rack) for couple of hours.

If leaved on table alone in extensive recording session, this thing gets normally warm. I can put on it my 500 series 6pack, but leaving PSU section uncovered, then it's OK.

Absolutely happy RME FF800 owner under Windows 10 laptop with ExpressCard (slot?) FireWire adapter based on Texas Instruments (must have) chip.

Might be some day i will migrate to Linux with RME (google FFADO)

Windows drivers are extra stable. Don't skip DigiCheck!
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Old 05-24-2018, 04:36 PM   #11
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Chance?

I have active speakers that are over 40 years old. Several pairs. No bad caps. The same speakers have been recapped by most other users. Maybe I'm lucky?

My FF400 is almost 15 years old, I think. I figured that the internal PSU (10-16V input) was slowly failing, but after a new driver and another (identical) computer I'm not so sure. The FF400 stopped working on external power and only functioned with Firewire bus power about a year ago. With the new driver, it works on external again, but now, on the "new" Mac the FW bus power shuts down after 2 to 15 minutes. On the old Mac, FW bus power and external power both work.

So I'm not so sure I understand anymore

Can a driver affect the PSU?

Anyhow, I've also got a Tascam SX1 here. Tests perfectly, but doesn't work. Since it's too big for me and I can't repair it, it'll be scrapped.

RME's stuff lasts a long time. Not because of superior hardware, but because these interfaces all use the same driver. So my old FF400 is still using the newest driver. That pile of other stuff in the corner still works too, but not with current OS'es. For me, that is much more important than the occasional hardware failure.
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Old 05-26-2018, 04:35 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karbomusic View Post
Just a heads up...

The FF800 power supply eventually dies - this will take many, many ears if the unit is powered off regularly, however if it has spent lots of time powered on, the capacitors degrade due to heat and it stops working - that supply or it's inclusion into the FF800 could have been designed a little better so..
Is this a RME thing or just the FF800?

Any Babyface (not pro) with Windows 10 users?
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Old 05-26-2018, 06:49 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by jnastic View Post
Is this a RME thing or just the FF800?

Any Babyface (not pro) with Windows 10 users?
Just the FF800 mostly AFAIK, it's not an RME thing per se - they didn't make the PSU FYI. My UFX is now as old as my FF800 was when it has issues and it runs cooler in general and no issues. I have a BabyFace pro, no issues there either.
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Old 05-27-2018, 12:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnastic View Post
Is this a RME thing or just the FF800?

Any Babyface (not pro) with Windows 10 users?
Yep - I got one of them too!

Same deal. Stellar performance and no driver issues.
Dont know about the current Babyface pro but I bet it is the same.

I have actually unhooked one of my Focusrite Octopres from the studio and used the ADAT connection on the Babyface to do multitrack recording ssuccessfully too.
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:43 AM   #15
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What about Thunderbolt 3? For example, a Focusrite Clarett.

If my next computer has Thunderbolt 3, can I expect the same level or performance/reliability/low latency as RME?

Thanks.
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Old 06-01-2018, 12:46 PM   #16
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I have Babyface Pro for a half of year. Since I am just home hobby player in the range from solo piano to "one man band", I was thinking "pro" interface is a overkill for me. I have found it is not and I am happy. No more stability or latency problems, no more "how I connect things to get..." questions.

Yes, it use "old" USB2 and it has no AVB/RedNet. But it can be used with down to 3.2ms Round Trip at 48sampes/48kHz. Thunderbolt top models are advertised with "under 2ms", but at 32samples/96kHz.

I like RME "podcast" capabilities: one mic, DAW (ASIO), Windows audio and capturing the mic and/or mix at the same time, with yet another mix in headphones and speakers. All that with minimal latency and without extra cables or "software mixer" daemons.

Bus powered and has no problem on my Dell USB3 (most other USB1/2 devices refuse to work correctly without hub with it).

I have only one annoying problem with the interface. They have decided to put XLR sockets without locks. Detaching cables without breaking the cable is a challenge, I guess the idea was "connect your cables and never touch them again". But for mobile interface that is questionable decision
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:10 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Detaching cables without breaking the cable is a challenge)
How so? I cart mine to rehearsal and back twice a week, I don't remember a microphone cable plug issue at all. I grab it by the barrel and pull it out.
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Old 06-01-2018, 01:30 PM   #18
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How so? I cart mine to rehearsal and back twice a week, I don't remember a microphone cable plug issue at all. I grab it by the barrel and pull it out.
The "force" requires is the same for input and outputs. The same with "no name" and Kimber Kable Hero.

It can be unit specific, but I have seen other such comments in the Internet and so I have considered to not ask for replacement.

So I have considered to not ask for replacement.

I will describe it the following way: my 8 years old daughter is unable to pull the cables
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:17 AM   #19
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Thank you for all your input.
I finally bought a Fireface 400.
I'll try that for a while and I might upgrade along the way.
Ok, time to make music now!
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