EEL: Take envelope scripts

[daxliniere]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

(well, maybe there aren't too many people as crazy as me when it comes to microdynamics).

Nope, I'm in that camp, too.
People ask me how I get so much clarity out of my vocals and it's simple; ride that gain.

[planetnine]

For many mixes, this is the hard truth. Not an easy fix; lots of rides, can take lots of time, but it's the secret to separation and clarity.


>

[Jae.Thomas]

Originally Posted by Mercado_Negro

Pretty much like you see it in that GIF. Before this script I used to spend a lot of time tweaking per-take volume envelopes for microdynamics while preparing the sessions I receive for mixing. Now that part of my editing is very fast: select a lead vocal, make a time selection around it, set the detection window to 50,000ms and hit create. Now expand/compress until your take is even out and tweak manually if needed. Working with this spript is so great that I'm impressed that not many people seem to rave about it (well, maybe there aren't too many people as crazy as me when it comes to microdynamics).

do you use it mainly to compress the vocals or to function as a gate?

[daxliniere]

Originally Posted by planetnine

For many mixes, this is the hard truth. Not an easy fix; lots of rides, can take lots of time, but it's the secret to separation and clarity.

[daxliniere]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

do you use it mainly to compress the vocals or to function as a gate?

I personally gate vocals manually, 99% of the time with edits. It's the only way to be sure you don't miss something important or 'characterful'.

[Sumalc]

Very interesting script, add presence for vocal, but i don't understand how work threshold.
i use the "Manipulate take volume envelope 240615.lua" one

[Jae.Thomas]

too many envelope points too, a bit fiddly.

[Sumalc]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

too many envelope points too, a bit fiddly.

I use the action 40887 "envelope : reduce number of points"

[daxliniere]

Originally Posted by Sumalc

i don't understand how work threshold.

Neither do I, but it still seems to work

Maybe we can all chip in and help spk77 find some time to work on this. I have a page-long list of FRs for it.
I know that he's very busy at the moment.

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

do you use it mainly to compress the vocals or to function as a gate?

Mainly to even out dynamics before the mix stage. That way the compression I use later is more artistic than anything else.

I do the gating manually like Dax says. I'm also in that camp

[Mercado_Negro]

Originally Posted by daxliniere

Neither do I, but it still seems to work

Maybe we can all chip in and help spk77 find some time to work on this. I have a page-long list of FRs for it.
I know that he's very busy at the moment.

Count me in. I do like the simplicity on this tool but I wouldn't mind a few extras like working on stereo material.

[daxliniere]

This was my list:

* 'Create' button could be renamed to 'Analyze' or 'Analyze volume'..

* Item selection doesn't work as expected. If there are a selection of items, only the first one is affected.

* If no time selection exists when the 'Create' button is pressed, the script should make a time selection around the selected items, removing the time selection once finished analysing.

* Is the Threshold control for silence detection threshold? If so, it should be renamed to Silence Threshold.

* New control: "Attenuation" or "Gating" - this takes the silent areas (determined by Silence Threshold) and turns them down by this amount (in dB).

* I think Gain should be one of the live parameters like Compress/Expand. It's hard to know how much gain you want to apply until you've seen what the detection does.

* Instead of committing the changes imposed by the live controls (Compress/Expand & Gain), I think it would be best for the results to show immediately, but the window should have OK/Commit and Cancel buttons.

* Could you make the compress/expand function have at least double the strength (if not more), please?

* Detection seems pretty good in my preliminary tests, but perhaps you should add some 12dB/oct HP and LP filters to the detection section for tricky material?

* It would be nice if the flat sections (between words) were written as a single

* Keys are not passed through the window.

* What does Multiplier control do?

* Stereo item compatibility would be great

[Mercado_Negro]

I'll read that list again tomorrow once I get to the studio and post some thoughts about it. Thanks, Dax.

[Sumalc]

Originally Posted by daxliniere

This was my list:

* If no time selection exists when the 'Create' button is pressed, the script should make a time selection around the selected items, removing the time selection once finished analysing.

May be we can wait by using this kind of cycle action?

[spk77]

Hello all!

About "Lua - Noise gate/ compressor":
I will have to rewrite most of the code to make it work on stereo material (and there are a lot of other issues too), but I will release a new version based on the old code. (This version has noise gate functionality integrated):

Noise gate + "gain riding"





Only noise gate (2 min mono audio clip in the gif)

[Jae.Thomas]

this is awesome! Exactly what I need! Can't wait!

[Jae.Thomas]

im already dying for it. Will donate.

[stereolost]

Can't sleep well now that i've seen the teaser.))

[spk77]

Here's the updated version:
https://stash.reaper.fm/24419/Manipul...e%20290615.zip

Edit the first line if you want to use it only for noise gating:

Noise gate + vol riding

vol_riding = true -- (false = apply noise gate only)

Noise gate only

vol_riding = false -- (false = apply noise gate only)

Quick instructions:

• Add spk77_Manipulate take volume envelope 230316.lua to the action list
• Select one mono take
• Set time selection
• Adjust sliders -> press 'create' (repeat if needed)
• Optionally: Use compress/expand slider to compress or expand selected envelope points around midpoint
  
• These might be better to set unticked:
  • Add edge points when moving envelope points and Envelope point selection follows time selection for the active envelope

Don't mind the code - this is just a test version

[Jae.Thomas]

ok, this works GREAT - I find though that it would be neat to have some control over when it makes envelope points AGAIN. For instance, i find it putting envelopes even between words, which can sound problematic.

Could there be a slider to control HOW OFTEN it makes points? Or maybe a bigger detection window? Now sure how this would work.

[Jae.Thomas]

as an example:

https://db.tt/LYpnE9jM

the green arrows are AWESOME
the blue arrows are inbetween words - risky, but still works
the red arrows are cutting off words in the middle

[Jae.Thomas]

oh man I'm loving this so much. It's going to save me so much time. You are in my reminder list for donating when I have some cash.

[Jae.Thomas]

sorry for all of the posts but I wonder if there could be something a bit more realtime and interactive for a future project.

for instance, while the window is open, could it detect where your mouse is, and measure the peaks you scroll over? So that you could define the threshold by a mouse click DIRECTLY on the wave, or perhaps a readout could let you know what that threshold is, if a mouse click won't work.

Also, it would be neat to see the effects on the envelopes in realtime -but I guess since there is lookahead, and analysis, that would be impossible

[spk77]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

ok, this works GREAT - I find though that it would be neat to have some control over when it makes envelope points AGAIN. For instance, i find it putting envelopes even between words, which can sound problematic.

Could there be a slider to control HOW OFTEN it makes points? Or maybe a bigger detection window? Now sure how this would work.

I'm trying to figure out how to reduce points.

This seems to help a little (from Wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_gate):
Noise gates often implement hysteresis, that is, they have two thresholds: one to open the gate and another, set a few dB below, to close the gate. This means that once a signal has dropped below the close threshold, it has to rise to the open threshold for the gate to open, so that a signal that crosses over the close threshold regularly does not open the gate and cause chattering. A longer hold time also helps avoid chattering, as described above.

Lowering "noise gate close threshold" reduces points:

[Nixon]

Tested this (gate) on kick and snare and like it very much Amy chance for an hold parameter too?

[spk77]

Originally Posted by Nixon

Tested this (gate) on kick and snare and like it very much

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Nixon

Amy chance for an hold parameter too?

Yes, that will be added



New version:
Download: https://stash.reaper.fm/24419/Manipul...e%20290615.zip





User settings:

vol_riding = true -- (false = apply noise gate only)
detect_by_rms = false -- (false = detect by max peak)

[babag]

wow. this is starting to look really impressive. with the addition of hold you're well on your way to creating an envelope-point based comp/limit/gate. if you're interested in adding something like a hold parameter, i'd recommend a quick look over the various parameters on a few of said comp/limit/gates and filling in the additional holes. personally, i'd love to work with something envelope-point based for that kind of work.

thanks and awesome work!
BabaG

[Jae.Thomas]

this is what I've always wanted. I eagerly await any improvements you are able to make.

[spk77]

- Added "Hold slider"
Download: https://stash.reaper.fm/24419/Manipul...e%20290615.zip

[babag]

this is really great! a 'gate floor' slider might be cool, too? the ability to say the gate points are not necessarily set to -inf but a configurable db level. anybody else think so?

thanks agai,
BabaG

[spk77]

Originally Posted by babag

this is really great! a 'gate floor' slider might be cool, too? the ability to say the gate points are not necessarily set to -inf but a configurable db level. anybody else think so?

thanks agai,
BabaG

Thanks! A slider for the gate points shouldn't be too difficult to do.

Update: https://stash.reaper.fm/24419/Manipul...e%20290615.zip

• - replaced "Detection window" -slider with "Points per second" -slider (now RMS window size is always 10 ms)

[Mercado_Negro]

All improvements during the past days are really great. Thanks spk77!

Is it possible to create points at time selection edges so expanding/compressing doesn't affect what's outside the time selection?

Is there a chance to add a "noise floor" so it doesn't go to -inf?

It would be great if we could set a max point value. Sometimes a peak is reduced too much and it gets worse when we expand/compress. A max point value would prevent points from going lower than expected whole others are decreased by expanding/compressing.

[Jae.Thomas]

"couldn't get samples" error... first time I've gotten this, latest version

[Jae.Thomas]

worked on one track, but not another... strange.

[babag]

the noise floor seems a possibility per my preceding request.

another thought i had for less literal processing: a ratio slider.

the way things are currently set up is great for the kinds of work demoed in the gifs. it occurs to me, though, that it might be very interesting for something like sound design purposes to be able to exaggerate the generated curve by applying a multiplication or division value to the points. i'm thinking that it would be very interesting to use something like this to generate a curve based on real material, then swap the item content for something else, say, a drone or tone. having exaggerated values might make for a more flexible process of blending the tone with the original. in other words, generate a curve in an item, then duplicate the item, in sync with the original. then swap the duplicate's content for something else. might be pretty cool.

thanks,
BabaG

[babag]

and just looking at some of the gifs, wouldn't the 'vocal riding' option be handled better by something like a toggleable button or checkbox?

[spk77]

Originally Posted by babag

and just looking at some of the gifs, wouldn't the 'vocal riding' option be handled better by something like a toggleable button or checkbox?

That will be handled like this (by setting the "Points per seconds" to 0):



I want to remind that...
I will have to rewrite most of the code to make it work on stereo material (and there are a lot of other issues too), but I will release new versions based on the old code.

[Jae.Thomas]

I can't seem to replicate that error except for this one project... what could cause "couldn't get samples?"

[spk77]

Originally Posted by Jason Brian Merrill

I can't seem to replicate that error except for this one project... what could cause "couldn't get samples?"

It's a bug in the code and will be fixed in the future...

When this test script seems to be working ok, I'll start making a new one using the "detection logic" from this script.



I guess all the parameters can be used in "real time" :

[Sumalc]

Originally Posted by spk77

It's a bug in the code and will be fixed in the future...

When this test script seems to be working ok, I'll start making a new one using the "detection logic" from this script.
I guess all the parameters can be used in "real time" :

Thank you, very impressive.