v5.95pre17 - September 2 2018

[Triode]

v5.95pre17 - September 2 2018

• + Automation items: do not include unrelated selected automation items when moving media items
• + Duplicate selected area of items: duplicate entire timeselection of envelope data
• + Paste: trim any existing automation items when pasting items that have regular automation
• # Item move: move time-selection automation when item moved using time-selection modifier
  # make cut selected area of items handle automation the same as copy selected areas

Changelog - Pre-Releases

Generated by X-Raym's REAPER ChangeLog to BBCode

[Edgemeal]

How do I move selected item(s) + selected AI(s) together like in the previous release version? I really just want the old/previous (5.941) behavior back.

[juliansader]

Originally Posted by Edgemeal

How do I move selected item(s) + selected AI(s) together like in the previous release version? I really just want the old/previous (5.941) behavior back.

AFAIK this was never possible, so I have been suggesting exactly this feature for quite some time.

Previously, moving or copying media items together with automation items was an uncomfortable mixture of
* The old option "Envelope points move with media items", and
* Selection status of automation items.

If the option was inactive, no automation (not even selected AIs) moved with MIs.
If the option was active, selected AIs (even those outside the MI boundaries) moved with the MI, but UNselected AIs below the MI also moved (even those in hidden envelope lanes).

[juliansader]

In the little testing that I have done so far, everything seems much more consistent.

One bug though: When dragging (Move item) or Ctrl+dragging (Copy item) MIs together with AIs, the copied AIs lose selection. In the case of Ctrl+dragging, the original AIs remain selected instead of the copy AI.

Originally Posted by Triode

v5.95pre17 - September 2 2018[*]+ Paste: trim any existing automation items when pasting items that have regular automation

This works when Copy/Pasting, but not yet when Duplicating or Ctrl+dragging.

[Edgemeal]

Originally Posted by juliansader

AFAIK this was never possible, so I have been suggesting exactly this feature for quite some time.

'Envelope points move with media items' enabled.
Select item and AI, now simply drag item with left mouse button...

v5.941


v595pre17


WTF?

[deeb]

Originally Posted by Edgemeal

..

you have to make a time selection now >= AI, right? to include the all AI

[D Rocks]

Originally Posted by Edgemeal

'Envelope points move with media items' enabled.
Select item and AI, now simply drag item with left mouse button...

v5.941


v595pre17


WTF?

why is your automation item longer than the item?

[deeb]

Originally Posted by D Rocks

why is your automation item longer than the item?

imagine example: an automated filtered sweep on long reverb tail

[juliansader]

Originally Posted by Edgemeal

'Envelope points move with media items' enabled.
Select item and AI, now simply drag item with left mouse button...
...
WTF?

Previously, if "Envelope points move with media items" was active, selected AIs (even those outside the MI boundaries) moved with the MI, but... UNselected AIs below the MI also moved (even those in hidden envelope lanes), as did all non-AI automation below the item.

What I therefore suggested is that, when "Envelope points move with media items" is DISabled:

* Unselected AIs as well as non-AI envelopes should be ignored, and therefore excluded from moving/copying/duplicating actions, similar to how unselected MIs are ignored.

* Selected AIs and selected MIs should move together, similar to how selected MIs move together.


EDIT: As deeb pointed out, in this pre-release you can make a time selection to capture the entire AI.

[mccrabney]

ditto Edgemeal, this new behavior is unusable for me. his gifs sum up half the issue, the other half is that we've effectively lost the ability to move (non-simultaneous) AI and items at the same time with this behavior. i used to just lasso-drag, making sure that AI and items alike were copied. i don't want my selection to trim AI any more than i'd want it to automatically trim items.

i definitely don't want to have to create or alter a time selection just to move AI.

[mccrabney]

Originally Posted by juliansader

AFAIK this [move selected item(s) + selected AI(s) together like in the previous release version] was never possible, so I have been suggesting exactly this feature for quite some time.

it was definitely possible in pre16. unless i missed something, you can't do this in pre17, which is a no go for me




also, unrelated, but if you select multiple items with this volume AI, you can move it from track to track -- which is the desired behavior. if you just select the AI, with no item, and try to drag that to another track, you cannot.

[D Rocks]

Originally Posted by deeb

imagine example: an automated filtered sweep on long reverb tail

Ah yeah!! Thanks

[Edgemeal]

Well if I change the default Mouse modifier > Media Item > Left Drag > Default action > Move Item from 'Ignore time selection' to 'Just move', then make a time selection over media items and AIs they move together, don't even need to select the AIs anymore.

Not crazy about having to make a time selection but is has advantage.
I can live with it.

[mccrabney]

forcing the use of time selection strikes me as unnecessary for what was previously as simple as the lasso select + drag.

that has worked on items since REAPER's genesis, and ai should behave as much like items as possible

[ovnis]

Expected behaviour (envelope points move with media is disabled) ?

When I select Item and AI, they don't move together.

[mccrabney]

there has to be a better way, be it by options or however.

this is treating automation items like they aren't items. if you had 5 tracks full of items, and you lasso selected a section of them, you expect them all to move when dragged -- regardless of whether or not they overlapped.

we're essentially now having to make Automation Item-Items in order to easily move ai. it's back to what we were doing with empty midi items to move/copy automation data before AI.

selections are made so that operations can be performed on the selected content.

[ovnis]

Expected behaviour ?

When I copy past I+AI, there are news points on the track envelope between the new AI. For me, that news points are completly useless and boring (I have to delete them).




Same thing when I create a new AI : one new point appears on the envelope track at the left of the AI (no more point at his right side). It happens only with thoses options :

A) Options: Automation items connect to the underlying envelope on the right side
B) Options: Automation items do not connect to the underlying envelope

[Edgemeal]

Originally Posted by mccrabney

forcing the use of time selection strikes me as unnecessary for what was previously as simple as the lasso select + drag.

that has worked on items since REAPER's genesis, and ai should behave as much like items as possible

Agree! Now I'm having same problem as post #5 trying to move items+AI while ignoring snap. I must be missing something, I'm on a clean install, I shouldn't need to be changing modifiers just to get basic things to work out of the box!

[D Rocks]

Whats the ideal behavior that you expect? Every update seems to fall short of small details so I dont understand whats the global vision where it should go?

And is there something that would benefit the majority over your personnal workflows?

[mccrabney]

edgemeal's first gif is desired behavior

make item 1 of changelog optional.
keep item 4, because it's good. just shouldn't be the only way.

[_Stevie_]

Originally Posted by mccrabney

edgemeal's first gif is desired behavior
.

I absolutely agree.

[juliansader]

Originally Posted by D Rocks

Whats the ideal behavior that you expect? Every update seems to fall short of small details so I dont understand whats the global vision where it should go?

And is there something that would benefit the majority over your personnal workflows?

Short-term vision:

Selected AIs and selected MIs always move and copy together, similar to how selected MIs move and copy together. (And when using time selection-based actions, selected AIs should trim to time selection, similar to how selected MIs trim to time selection.)

This also implies that, when the "Envelope points move with media items" is DISabled, all unselected AIs and all non-AI automation are ignored, while selected MIs and selected AIs still move together.

This would grant the user much better control over which automation should be moved or copied.


Medium-term vision:

AIs become proper *items* and everything that works on selected MIs also work on selected AIs.


P.S. I should point out that I am very pleased with the improvements in "selected area of items" actions that have been made in the recent pre-releases!

[D Rocks]

Nice thank you for the two clarifications

It makes sense and I also agree that the trim to time selection is highly effective (keep only stuff thats within). Mostly while using regions or items to set time selection in half a second! Its very fast.