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Old 09-03-2014, 11:01 AM   #81
sammydix
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damn saresu, except for one other friend of mine here (kindafishy), I've never seen someone so persistent with trying to improve. your attitude alone will get you where you want to be.
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:59 AM   #82
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Regarding question about how the edited vocal track that I sent you via PM.In the case of this song it sounded to me as if the vox track was recorded in a different space without cohesion to the existing instrumental music .Even though overdubbing vocals is standard procedure in virtually all modern recording the challenge is always to glue that and other elements in the mix to function as a whole .I first hi passed with filter cutoff at 120 HZ to give the instrumentation more room then processed the track with a declicker plug to remove some unwanted clicks /pops followed by 2 separate layers of compression to spank the peaks and for overall smoothing then just a touch of ambient reverb and delay to sit the vocal in the front to back perspective of the mix.All common practice but it is pointless saying which ratios /attack release settings or reverb delay times are used as every voice /situation requires different treatments.It is more important to remember the principles and what is needed as an end result and use tools of your choice to get there.As far as the intonation fixes that I did ,again a judgement call as you being the artist will be intimately attached to your work,.I know been there but the producer, engineer in me can clearly hear the intonal discrepancies/pitch flaws so can a lot of other guys here that commented on this thread.I proceeded with edits on a phrase by phrase basis using pitch envelopes where necessary as not to overly process but you will hear some of it because of the correction needed.There really is no substitute for getting it right or as close as possible during tracking.Nothing wrong with making the artistic call and opt not to use pitch correction,organic can work, Bob Dylan was in the zone .In the end you make the choices and stick/live with them.Happy to help dude let me know how far you want to take it as I admire your work ethic ,reminds me of me back in the day starting out.
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Old 09-04-2014, 07:49 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sammydix View Post
damn saresu, except for one other friend of mine here (kindafishy), I've never seen someone so persistent with trying to improve. your attitude alone will get you where you want to be.
Thanks sammy.

Peace
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:55 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by polysoniq View Post
Regarding question about how the edited vocal track that I sent you via PM.In the case of this song it sounded to me as if the vox track was recorded in a different space without cohesion to the existing instrumental music .Even though overdubbing vocals is standard procedure in virtually all modern recording the challenge is always to glue that and other elements in the mix to function as a whole .I first hi passed with filter cutoff at 120 HZ to give the instrumentation more room then processed the track with a declicker plug to remove some unwanted clicks /pops followed by 2 separate layers of compression to spank the peaks and for overall smoothing then just a touch of ambient reverb and delay to sit the vocal in the front to back perspective of the mix.All common practice but it is pointless saying which ratios /attack release settings or reverb delay times are used as every voice /situation requires different treatments.It is more important to remember the principles and what is needed as an end result and use tools of your choice to get there.As far as the intonation fixes that I did ,again a judgement call as you being the artist will be intimately attached to your work,.I know been there but the producer, engineer in me can clearly hear the intonal discrepancies/pitch flaws so can a lot of other guys here that commented on this thread.I proceeded with edits on a phrase by phrase basis using pitch envelopes where necessary as not to overly process but you will hear some of it because of the correction needed.There really is no substitute for getting it right or as close as possible during tracking.Nothing wrong with making the artistic call and opt not to use pitch correction,organic can work, Bob Dylan was in the zone .In the end you make the choices and stick/live with them.Happy to help dude let me know how far you want to take it as I admire your work ethic ,reminds me of me back in the day starting out.
Lets go in parts...

Your replies are very educative and now more mixing tips... it's like you are teaching how to fish.
I implemented ur first mixing tip - (Ferric/thrillseeker/Limiter) and it made my vocal sounding better. Now I realised I cut too much going around 250 hz... you cut it at 120hz. I listen to my mixes from different domestic cd players and my car and I was hearing some unpleasing annoying freq around 240hz from my vocal track that it made me cut that far. but you didnt cut that much and theres no that annoying freq anymore. What's the magic?

Yeah, I think I'll always opt for fixing my poor vocal performances until a certain limit on Melodyne, before when it starts sounding artificially corrected, with the hope of some day my vocals techniques might improve or I'll find the vocalist that I'd like to work with...
I hate so bad the current sound of pop music and "artists" in every aspect that I'm not sweating my bad vocal performances and mixes much It's like I want to see how good I can be doing this without faking too much with these plugins.
Most of all these super-successful male singers (that I wont mention here) today sound too cheesy and cunning for me. It feels they're politicians singers. The masses believe and follow them but it's all about fame, money and bullshit.


Man! You are offering fixing this track for free and it already made me very indebted to you so I'm confused about what to do. I mean, I loved the sound of this track you sent back but I prefer with no time and pitch correction. Also you trying to fix but without the actual mix. What to do? What do you think?

anyway, Thanks again!
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Old 09-04-2014, 12:24 PM   #85
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Default I like it

I like the 1st version. Lead vocal seems a little hot... I like lead vocal just hot enough to hear the lyrics, great work :-)
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Old 09-05-2014, 03:28 AM   #86
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Firstly, there is no need to feel indebted.I always had talent but gained a lot of knowledge from various mentors along the way who respected my eagerness to learn and they were always willing to impart the knowledge to me.Karma is a good thing so I try to help in your case as I can feel/discern your passion.

Quote:
I implemented ur first mixing tip - (Ferric/thrillseeker/Limiter) and it made my vocal sounding better. Now I realised I cut too much going around 250 hz... you cut it at 120hz. I listen to my mixes from different domestic cd players and my car and I was hearing some unpleasing annoying freq around 240hz from my vocal track that it made me cut that far. but you didnt cut that much and theres no that annoying freq anymore. What's the magic? ..............

Well ,there is no magic just science mixed with artistic and aesthetic choices.
The plugins that I suggested you use are freely available and should give similar results if the right techniques are applied but that is only part of the solution.I don't think I mentioned before that a lot of volume automation and manual level matching /fades were applied to the vocal track to even out the dynamics before i applied any plugs.The reason for that is so the detectors in the compressors do not have to work too hard with large gain swings .I have lots of tools available both software and hardware but in this case opted to stay ITB for a solution.My ability to fix partly relies on my ability to hear the problems and I do have monitoring that I trust,phones and monitors.Keep in mind that the equalization curve in our hearing has differences from person to person so the processing/editing choices that I make in my environment/my ears will more than likely translate.
I more or less went to plugin choices with hardware equivalents which I know and have worked with for years but again they are just tools .If you do want to replicate my workflow then I can send you the reaper project.The chain tat I used on this occasion is: Waves X-Click ,API-2500, CLA Vocals,SSLEQ and Acon Digital Declick.You can look at the project file to learn what I did if you want to try doing it yourself or I am happy to send you the processed track with out pitch /timing edits.If you send the instrumental mix as well then I can easily balance the vocal for you as my previous submission was done with out music ,I listened to the mix at the beginning of this thread for reference.
It is your project ,you are the artist so whatever makes you happy.
So there is no magic just skill,experience,talent and hard work and with time comes speed,to give you some perspective : I have been a recording/mix/mastering engineer since 17 years old working in broadcast television and radio,film sound etc as a day job,I have been a musician starting at 12 years old,bass guitar is my first instrument but studied guitar/theory/performance formally at music school enrolling at 15.
Ironically , I played/toured on keyboards for more than 20 years.I have been a Pipe Organ Technician ,Equipment Tech,Musical Director,Producer,Songwriter,Engineer and Music Executive along the way.
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Old 09-05-2014, 03:41 AM   #87
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I just turned 50 and have been recording mixing and mastering for more than 30 years ,I have even designed and built several recording studios ,the point of all that is there is so substitute for experience and as you mentioned you are new to engineering/mixing .I believe that with your attitude you will get a good grasp in a short time but there are are thousands of guys like me with similar experience and to get there is no different from becoming musically proficient on an instrument,you have to clock the hours golden ears or not.
I really don't mind taking care of it for you but if you want to use this as a technical guide in principles then I will send you the project.
So let me know which way you wanna go.(No debt owed just keep on making music)
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Old 09-05-2014, 10:08 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polysoniq View Post
Firstly, there is no need to feel indebted.I always had talent but gained a lot of knowledge from various mentors along the way who respected my eagerness to learn and they were always willing to impart the knowledge to me.Karma is a good thing so I try to help in your case as I can feel/discern your passion.
YEah, living according to the natural laws and help increase life around... so I'll have to help someone else to give it back.

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a lot of volume automation and manual level matching /fades were applied to the vocal track to even out the dynamics before i applied any plugs
Thats seems very difficult and minutious...
by volume automation, u mean drawing envelopes coarsely in the daw to adjust ranges of words?
by manual level matching, u mean a more fine adjustment like a syllable, or vowel, consonant, etc?
You do this by riding the faders along the song?
So I'll have to do this using a mouse. Maybe a BCF2000 midi control could streamline this work?
Do u use only ears to check, Do you use meters? Do u use plugin for this?
Is TT dynamic range meter useful for this?
Is there some literature, videos u recommend?

So sorry for so many questions... I guess this topic is very crucial.
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Old 09-06-2014, 12:59 AM   #89
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Thats seems very difficult and minutious...
by volume automation, u mean drawing envelopes coarsely in the daw to adjust ranges of words?
Yes. Insert 4 points or more where you need to automate the envelope,it can get a little tedious if you need to do a lot of that but the results are worth it as with enough time you could level the vocal this way without resorting to compression or limiting resulting in a more natural sounding track if that is the goal.I happen to like the sonic signature of various compressors so often i will use those doing very little compression but it adds a nice character to the track in question.

by manual level matching, u mean a more fine adjustment like a syllable, or vowel, consonant, etc?
Yes , by splitting up the problem areas and using volume handles on the items to adjust level appropriately.You don"t need to use a controller,mousing is fine for this.

You do this by riding the faders along the song?
No as riding faders can sound organic but is a lot of cases wont provide minute accuracy,you are able to look at the waveform display and see where there is disparity in the amplitude,you don't need to flatline i.e. smash the vocal until the wave looks like a mastered song from the loudness wars .lol.

Do u use only ears to check, Do you use meters? Do u use plugin for this?
What you want is an average level devoid of any obvious peaking/volume jumps or dips.Meters can help but I usually just use my ears as in this case .No plug ins except for the ones on the sides of my head.

Is TT dynamic range meter useful for this? Yes but see above.

Is there some literature, videos u recommend?
There is so much info available now that it can be overwhelming.So many different approaches and workflows to address a specific issue.Most of the priceless knowledge I have came from being in the trenches doing it day in day out and being around senior more experienced guys than myself in various work environments.For Eg I learned more about properly biasing a Studer 2 inch tape machine in 15 minutes from engineering a session for a legendery engineer/producer , old school, who had worked with most of the classic rock icons including the Stones,Dylan,Clapton,Lennon,Beach Boys,Marley to name a few.I was in house Studio Manager/producer/engineer for this small label in NY at the time and I has set up this old Broadcast Neve board with Automation via an external Mac VCA system to enable recall and tied in a Protools system with 32 I/O as well as two 2 inch Studer tape machines.This guy passed though one day and heard some stuff that I had tracked to tape and was really impressed so he asked me to engineer a session in my room which he was gonna produce.The gear in our room was like a candy shop but all this guy chose to use on this session for outboard was a Drawmer 1960 which i did not particularly like but he loved it and refered to it as his baby.After I finished tracking the musicians to tape he said he was gonna do a quick rough mix and I swear in five minutes with him using that Drawmer 1960 on the 2 buss I could hear a radio ready record coming out the monitors.This guy was like a dinosaur to the digital era and he wanted to get up to speed so he asked me If I would show him the ropes at which I jumped at the opportunity to do as this guy was like a walking encyclopedia on audio engineering and technique.These days there is a lot of info on youtube and the web but you can't trust all of it for accuracy so I will recommend some of the engineers/stuff that I trust.
Seek out any articles by Roger Nichols ,Dave Pensado(especially Pensado's Place) ,Tom & Chris Lord Alge,Michael Brauer, Manny Marroquin,Jon Gass and Bob Katz for starters
Also check out The Mixing Engineers Handbook lots of great info from A list guys
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=c...ed=0CHIQ6AEwBA

And questions are always good as giving answers reinforces what one already knows as well as the person asking learning from it.
I will send you the project to analyze.

Last edited by polysoniq; 09-06-2014 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:45 AM   #90
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Cool!

Quote:
Originally Posted by polysoniq View Post
I really don't mind taking care of it for you but if you want to use this as a technical guide in principles then I will send you the project.
So let me know which way you wanna go.(No debt owed just keep on making music)
So I'd like U to take care of it while I train with the level matching and automation work on the tracks.


I think for now, Ive got a lot of essential info to build a foundation from. So I wont research anything for now until I get the grip of all this stuff u taught.

I'll be back to my home studio in a few days. So I'll send u the rendered mix without vocal.

Thanks a lot!
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