Old 03-15-2019, 09:45 AM   #41
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Therein lies the difference. Track envelopes use host automation, which is a bidirectional protocol by definition. MIDI CCs aren't bidirectional, which is why there's no fighting. There's nothing to fix, if you have host automation it IS supposed to work like that.
Yep, very much this. Pbattersby, if you'd like to work in the manner you described, look into the "Latch preview" envelope mode when you would like to play an instrument and freely CC control a parameter you have already bound into an envelope like this. You could invoke this mode via a hotkey and then back again when done. It's still a bit different than working with pure CC data, but due to the inherent difference between these two, this is a good "best of both worlds" approach if you want to use parameter automation as a means of generating CC events on arrangement lanes like this.
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:58 AM   #42
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There's nothing to fix, if you have host automation it IS supposed to work like that.
To me, it isn't a beneficial way for it to work for MIDI CC curves. I fail to see it as any advantage in having it work this way.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:04 AM   #43
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"Latch preview" envelope mode when you would like to play an instrument and freely CC control a parameter you have already bound into an envelope like this. You could invoke this mode via a hotkey and then back again when done.
Which is about where I gave up. Given the choice between toggling Latch preview mode on and off to use track envelopes and using the juliansader scripts within the MIDI editor, I chose the scripts and the MIDI editor but I'm looking forward to whatever Reaper develops as an improvement to the MIDI CC editing within the MIDI editor.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:13 AM   #44
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To me, it isn't a beneficial way for it to work for MIDI CC curves. I fail to see it as any advantage in having it work this way.
Understood. But this is how host automation works as a protocol defined by VST standard. In fact any plugin standard: AU and AAX are the same in this regard.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:24 AM   #45
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I'd just like to reiterate my main concerns at this point:

> How exactly are the single events going to be applied, and how will they look?

> Will our current custom actions and scripts continue to work as they do now?

Of course if we have both envelopes and event bars available to us, this shouldn't matter.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:25 AM   #46
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If the envelope is in square mode (which is the default), it's the same as a single event, really. It just shows you how it's going to be chased, as well.
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Old 03-16-2019, 10:42 AM   #47
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Yea, that was pretty clever from Justin and schwa. That way, both methods can be used.
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:45 PM   #48
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If the envelope is in square mode (which is the default), it's the same as a single event, really. It just shows you how it's going to be chased, as well.
Okay thanks ED, I just checked out the modifiers for the envelopes in the arrange area and I couldn't find anything that makes it easy, or seems relevant. They only way I can envision it is that it will have to create a square point and then somehow place another point above or below that point. Of course if you double click above or below the current envelope it can easily make that point, but if it's on or close, it might be strange.
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:47 PM   #49
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Yea, that was pretty clever from Justin and schwa. That way, both methods can be used.
Hi Stevie, so did they say both methods will be used?

If they did I must have missed it.
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Old 03-16-2019, 01:57 PM   #50
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Hi Stevie, so did they say both methods will be used?

If they did I must have missed it.
It's the square mode that you are looking for. As ED said, there really isn't any difference; you just see the graphical representation of how the value is chased, also, and in that mode that representation constitutes the visual envelope. Look closely at the screenshot earlier in the thread where you see the square mode envelope. You don't need to place two points at a value transition. When ever you have a singular event, it sets the value, and it changes instantly to another value where ever you have placed the next point. There's no separate data point necessary in the "corner" of the square shape at that transition, so to speak.
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Old 03-16-2019, 02:22 PM   #51
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What Lunar said
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Old 03-16-2019, 02:27 PM   #52
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Made a gif so that you don't need to be worried about this, Tod



This mode is basically just a different visual for the old familiar thing. (Pardon the weird "move" cursor, it's not like that in Reaper but the capture software is acting funny.)

Naturally also:



The chasing visual stays consistent with the order of the points.

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Old 03-16-2019, 04:00 PM   #53
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Made a gif so that you don't need to be worried about this, Tod
Well thank you very much Lunar, I really appreciate that because now I understand.

I did look for a modifier today for the square mode but couldn't find it.

I actually do work with the envelopes a lot on my audio tracks but I've got all my main custom actions tied to shortcut keys. I also do all my envelope editing manually, it's much more precise.
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Old Yesterday, 12:05 AM   #54
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There's no modifier for square mode, there's a default curve option for MIDI CC envs in Prefs->Editing Behavior->MIDI Editor that is by default set to square. You don't have to do anything.

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Old Yesterday, 09:55 AM   #55
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Since we are discussing envelopes in the MIDI editor... How about displaying the tempo envelope in a CC lane?

This would allow editing tempo while looking at the actual notes being affected.

Tempo-related actions can be passed through to Main, so tempo *markers* can be added and edited in the MIDI editor, but the tempo *envelope* cannot be drawn.
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Old Yesterday, 10:16 AM   #56
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There's bo modifier for square mode, there's a default curve option for MIDI CC envs in Prefs->Editing Behavior->MIDI Editor that is by default set to square. You don't have to do anything.
Thanks ED, are you talking about the recent beta intalls? I haven't installed any yet that has the envelopes in the CC lanes, but now I think I understand.

I've got plenty of portable installs to I need to take time to check these betas out. Too many projects to little time.
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Old Yesterday, 10:21 AM   #57
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VST parameters envelopes in CC lanes I'd also find a nice thing...
https://forum.cockos.com/showpost.ph...22&postcount=9
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Old Yesterday, 10:28 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by juliansader View Post
Since we are discussing envelopes in the MIDI editor... How about displaying the tempo envelope in a CC lane?

This would allow editing tempo while looking at the actual notes being affected.

Tempo-related actions can be passed through to Main, so tempo *markers* can be added and edited in the MIDI editor, but the tempo *envelope* cannot be drawn.
Hummm, trying to imagine this Julian. It could be nice for Orchestration and all midi projects, in fact it could be a real plus to adjust tempo while creating all midi projects.

Might work well with video projects too.
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