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Old 01-17-2018, 06:19 AM   #1
Gass n Klang
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Default Playlists in Pro Tools Style

Hey guys,
at the moment I have to work with Pro Tools for a project. One thing I really like is the "playlist" feature.
Playlists essentially are subtracks/lanes within a track. Normally you use one playlist per take while recording. Reaper also can record multiple takes within one track and creates a lane for each take. One big disadvantage of Reaper takes effect when the takes you record don't have the same length for some reason. In this situation, Reaper will create a cut on every start and end of every take. The workaround is to cut all takes to the same length...
Pro Tools does that better in my opinion: It doens't matter how long the takes are. The recorded item just appears in the playlist without any cuts or so.
If you now want to bring the best takes together in a new lane, in Pro Tools you just create a new playlist and copy the snippets of other playlists to the new, empty playlist (There is a shortcut for bringing the timeselection to the top playlist).
Another advantage of playlists is that this kind of take handling allows silence. In Reaper there always must be an item "on top". If you want to have silence, you have to cut out the material of all lanes. This way you lose track of the recorded material of the single takes...
In Pro Tools you just don't edit the original takes at all but just copy the parts you want to your main playlist.
Besides: If you group tracks, playlists are grouped as well. So creating a new playlist for a new take on one track automatically creates a playlist on each grouped track. In Reaper you have to remember to always group the items in different tracks of every part of the song to jump through the takes of all tracks at the same time (and not to hear the kick of take 1 and the snare of take 2). A bit inconvenient I think.

It would be very nice to have this kind of take handling in Reaper.
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Old 01-17-2018, 06:41 AM   #2
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Probably these scripts would help you for a while: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=176578
https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=171362 (I'm not sure about the second one)
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Old 01-17-2018, 06:49 AM   #3
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perhaps, but I think major features should be implemented nativly
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Old 01-25-2018, 02:27 PM   #4
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Been asking for playlists for long time! maybe, who knows, in V6..
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Old 01-26-2018, 04:06 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepe44 View Post
Been asking for playlists for long time! maybe, who knows, in V6..
I hope so
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Old 01-28-2018, 07:08 PM   #6
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I'd love to see them in Reaper, along with edit groups. These are the two things that ProTools are superior to Reaper
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Old 01-28-2018, 08:25 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amagalma View Post
I'd love to see them in Reaper, along with edit groups. These are the two things that ProTools are superior to Reaper
definitly. Edit track groups would be nice as well...
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Old 01-29-2018, 10:27 AM   #8
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If playlists and track/edit groups were implemented I would switch in a heartbeat. They are the only thing holding me back.
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Old 01-30-2018, 02:51 PM   #9
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Yop, we all hope for the same, i keep using Pt in the studio ...mixing in reaper, its a bit boring bouncing everything..but..that's ok for now!
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:02 AM   #10
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I agree with everything you said %100. I jump around from different DAWS all the time. I find I use REAPER a lot because its so stable and flexible. But stuff like this can be frustrating and definitely makes me want to use Pro Tools for certain sessions. In fact... Playlists and edit groups are the ONLY reason I ever use PT

Item grouping and the way REAPER handles takes are really great and fast for a lot of stuff but having a playlist option would be amazing.

I have being doing one on lessons teaching recording and editing with someone doing drums. And when I have to actually examine and explain the way it works from that angle (to record, comp and edit multi-track, multi-take drums in REAPER to a beginner) it feels pretty broken.

It's the convergence of a lot of the problems people have with REAPER (lack of playlists, no area selection and confusing/unpredictable take and item grouping behavior) I really hope this could be improved in a later update.
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Old 02-04-2018, 01:17 AM   #11
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second post above .. try the ben miller script for the playlists

and you can't blame reaper if you can't handle it , there IS a documentation
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:29 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobobo View Post
second post above .. try the ben miller script for the playlists
I'll try them. But I'm pretty sure they can't handle different things due to REAPER's behaviour of handling items. Besides: In my opinion core features have to be implemented by the developers. We don't have any certainty, these scripts will work with future versions of REAPER.

E.g.: I built my live FOH setup for one of my acappella bands on a SWS function that turned out to be buggy in certain contexts. I reported that bug but I'm pretty sure it will at least take a long time until they'll fix it. If it ever happens...
Scripts are nice addons but things have to work in the program itself. I personally know some guys that don't show an interest for REAPER at all just because they need the Pro Tools playlist and edit groups. A can understand, the PT playlists idea is very performant.
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:39 AM   #13
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I'd welcome it as well just alone for the quality the whole project would look indeed more tidy and controlled.
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:44 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Riley Hill View Post
Item grouping and the way REAPER handles takes are really great and fast
OOpps. I never used takes, but I saw a lot complains regarding takes in Reaper. Seemingly it's differenmt (but supposedly better) than that these people are accustomed to.

-Michael
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Old 02-04-2018, 02:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post
... Besides: In my opinion core features have to be implemented by the developers. We don't have any certainty, these scripts will work with future versions of REAPER....
i.m.o. all core features are implemented already.
playlist is nice to have, but core?

And we don't have any certainty, there will be any future, i'm afraid.

we'll see.
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Old 02-04-2018, 04:11 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobobo View Post
playlist is nice to have, but core?
I think one could make a argument that Playlists and Edit Groups are a core feature.

They are unarguably a core feature of the Pro Tools workflow (having been part of the program since around the time computers became ubiquitous in studios) and PT is probably the application that has most shaped the DAW paradigm. In my experience it also still seems to be the most popular program for professionals doing multi-track drum and vocal comping (two areas were i think playlists really shine).

Now it's true that lots of aspects of the "the Pro Tools workflow" are much detested, many other popular DAWS don't have playlists either, and I'm certain Justin Frankel did not originally envision REAPER to be a PT clone

but

1. Most of us know and love REAPER as a super DAW that can be used to incorporate and improve upon the best workflows of other software, the scripts can work well, but they aren't always super stable, and have limitation to how well integrated they can be.
2. Seems like whenever I talk to another engineer about the pros and cons of Pro Tools this is a summary of the conversation "It's crashes constantly and lacks a lot of new features other applications have, but I love playlists and edit groups and can't imagine working without them."

To me this makes these things make the argument a compelling one.
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Old 02-04-2018, 04:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Riley Hill View Post
2. Seems like whenever I talk to another engineer about the pros and cons of Pro Tools this is a summary of the conversation "It's crashes constantly and lacks a lot of new features other applications have, but I love playlists and edit groups and can't imagine working without them."

To me this makes these things make the argument a compelling one.
Definitly! I own PT and don't really like it. I think REAPER does most things so much better. But playlists and edit groups do their jobs so well. Together with the upcoming ARA implementation (thank you so much for that, guys!) REAPER really could be the DAW with the fastest editing workflow by far.
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Old 02-04-2018, 07:15 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Riley Hill View Post
2. Seems like whenever I talk to another engineer about the pros and cons of Pro Tools this is a summary of the conversation "It's crashes constantly and lacks a lot of new features other applications have, but I love playlists and edit groups and can't imagine working without them."

To me this makes these things make the argument a compelling one.
I don't experience a lot of crashes and I'm more or less happy with the features (especially in Pro Tools 2018) but it's true that edit groups and playlists are two main reasons why I still do some projects in Pro Tools.

I love REAPER and have migrated many tasks over to REAPER but playlists are especially a must.

I've tried to be open minded but some of the workarounds and custom scripts people have made just don't cut it, and while I appreciate the effort, REAPER really needs to have this natively implemented, looking nicer, and working better.
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Old 02-12-2018, 05:03 PM   #19
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keep +1 coming. who knows some devs will ear our call! eheh
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Old 02-13-2018, 11:14 AM   #20
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Might as well throw my +1 in there as well!

I try not to get too hung up on my gripes and instead appreciate all that REAPER has to offer, but not a session goes by that I don't chant my mantra of "area selection... playlists... edit groups..."

Until then, I'll just keep mastering in Sequoia, tracking in Pro Tools and Logic, and mixing in REAPER. C'est la vie.
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Old 02-14-2018, 03:52 AM   #21
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Well, here's mine:

+1
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Old 02-14-2018, 04:39 AM   #22
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Would be great to have! +1
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Old 02-15-2018, 01:11 AM   #23
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Definitely + 1
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Old 02-27-2018, 11:14 AM   #24
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Yes please!
This would be a great improvement.

+1
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Old 02-28-2018, 03:39 AM   #25
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https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=203828
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Old 02-28-2018, 03:57 AM   #26
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Something in the way!!!
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Old 03-05-2018, 01:48 AM   #27
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Nice script, don't get me wrong, but not remotely the same.
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Old 03-05-2018, 02:00 AM   #28
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Well if you tell me what you want exactly maybe I can work something out,theres a lot of stuff that needs to be added/fixed and I would like to get as much as feedback as I can (btw post in that thread)

Recording takes and then make individual versions based on them is on todo list

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Old 03-06-2018, 04:02 PM   #29
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I think it's unlikely that this feature can be satisfactorily scripted, it should be implemented natively.

As for an explanation, the first post already provided that. Or just watch on YouTube a Pro Tools playlists tutorial and you'll see how it works far better and quicker than I could describe.

The big point that the script is missing is presenting the playlists as lanes where I can see what's going on and move clips around (is there even a way to move single clips from a playlist to another with that script?).

The great thing about Pro Tools playlists is that they are very simple, very flexible, and very intuitive.

The big drawbacks of the Reaper take system are mainly two: you can't have takes of different lengths (and - by extension - you can't have empty space in a take), and you can't freely move takes independently from each other and in and out of the take lanes. Fix these points - natively - and we'll have a vastly superior and more flexible comping system (probably very similar to Tracktion's, I guess, which would be great).

The closest thing I see in Reaper is making a folder and using its children tracks as playlists by muting all of them except the one I want to listen to. Maybe some clever custom cycle action could make that a bit closer to the Pro Tools's workflow.
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Old 03-06-2018, 05:01 PM   #30
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Quote:
you can't freely move takes independently from each other
You can by moving the audio inside the take which is independent of other takes - For example you want to adjust timing of one take without affecting the other takes. I also watched PT playlists in action for a few hours the other week just so I could be more informed, there isn't much going on there that can't be done in reaper albeit users have to be willing to think a little differently which is usually not the case.

I won't knock playlists, if it helps, it helps but there isn't that much there that I can't do for example as efficiently, there is some but not very much. The best possible action playlist proponents can take is asking for filling in the gaps but from what I've seen, very few even take the time to "fully" understand how Reaper takes work at all, and without that understanding they don't understand what the gaps are, so it never happens.
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Old 03-07-2018, 04:55 AM   #31
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It's amazing to see all these enthusiastic scripters like Sexan. You're all doing stunning work and I don't want to discount it at all!

But in this case I hold the opinion of emarsk. The current take system is not suitable for the playlist feature.
- Different length problem: Takes can't have different lengths. Yes, you could fill the delta with silence and expand the shorter takes to the lengths of the longest take. But that gets confusing. You don't see clearly on the first view which take contains which material.
- Overview: I want to be able to see all takes of a track at once. Otherwise I don't have the possibility to see whether I got all the material of a song or not.
- Copying within a take: It often happens that I copy e.g. the second take of the backing vocals of the first chorus to the second chorus (or a single guitar chord, or a breathing or ...). This is problematic at the moment because it destroys the whole take systematic. You could delete the material of the second chorus and replace it but then you lose one part of your original recording and got another twice. In Pro Tools you don't touch any of the "original material" and just copy everything you want to a new playlist. This way you never have to delete anything and keep track of what you got.


Quote:
Originally Posted by emarsk View Post
The closest thing I see in Reaper is making a folder and using its children tracks as playlists by muting all of them except the one I want to listen to. Maybe some clever custom cycle action could make that a bit closer to the Pro Tools's workflow.
This could work well for one track I think. If it comes to group editing it gets difficult and dangerous I think.
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:11 AM   #32
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Just a question, would you consider it useful if you get for example this view from it (I need to code one thing at the time) :

(just a image concept (FOR NOW ))
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:16 AM   #33
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definitly as it shows which material is recorded in total.
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:47 AM   #34
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Regarding functionality I would appreciate if you can post in the script thread (if you are interested)
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:43 AM   #35
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That free item mode stuff you have going on above is definitely interesting.
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Old 03-07-2018, 05:06 PM   #36
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edit...

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Old 03-07-2018, 11:14 PM   #37
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As the "playlist" thing seems to get decently "easy to use", do you think it is viable to use it in a live situation, firing multiple such play list by pressing a keyboard note or sending some other Midi events to Reaper ?

Thanks,
-Michael
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:01 AM   #38
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Well as far as I've tested it can be used, you only need to lower the buffering in preferences because its set to 1200ms by default so you will hear lag when switching.

And after watching lots of youtube videos:

This is "automatic create playlist when in loop recording"

Is this style of comping ok or you prefere the PT way "promote to main" button?
When you are in all version mode clicking on item shows corresponding version and vice versa. Comping begins as soon you time select over item (it does not need to be selected). clicking on item sets its version unmuted so you can preview it
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:06 AM   #39
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Amazing !!

Sexan,
Will this also work for looped MIDI Take recording ?
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Old 03-08-2018, 04:09 AM   #40
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There is no midi code ATM, but it will be added
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