Go Back   Cockos Incorporated Forums > REAPER Forums > REAPER for Linux

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-16-2019, 09:55 AM   #1
audiojunkie
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 61
Default Native Linux Reaper vs Windows Reaper through WINE

I was just curious, and wondering what the pros/cons are of using Native Reaper vs Reaper for Windows in WINE.

Native Reaper would be more stable when run in Linux, I'm certain. But what other pros and cons are there between these two methodologies of using Reaper in Linux?

Examples: Higher/lower CPU or RAM usage with Windows Reaper? Higher/lower latency?

Or is stability basically it? How stable is Reaper for Windows when run through WINE in Linux?
audiojunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2019, 03:54 PM   #2
4duhwinnn
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 366
Default

First, Reaper is not an ordinary daw...it's codebase is
tiny, compared to the competing behemoths, while it's
functionality and the enjoyment factor is stellar.

I can use the linux version alongside the windows-wine version,
and have the best of both worlds, and record the joint output
to a third-party recording app. So it's not necessarily
one vs the other.

My opinion is that both reaper versions are ready for
audio production duties, and when it comes to using
windows plugins, the linux version with linvst/airwave wrappers
is very close to matching the wine-windows version for
providing usable plugins.

The more we experiment, test, probe, and report our results,
the faster the situation advances. Thanks to the many people
here, who are quick to share on so many levels!

The jackd server and gui's allow linux stand-alone softwares
to be patched into reaper, while as a user, I may lack some
total-session saving capabilities. But if I make something
_THAT_ good, I make a textfile with the details, should
I want to revisit the process after the song was 'finalized'.
74 seconds well spent.

It's going to be a good new year to make music in reaper.
4duhwinnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2019, 06:00 PM   #3
audiojunkie
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 61
Default

Right. I understand this, but I'm curious about the pros/cons of each running on a linux system. Is it just that the native version is more stable than running a Windows version through WINE? Or is there more to it? Better CPU/RAM usage? Lower latencies? Surely there must be pros and cons for running the native version of Reaper in a Linux environment vs runing a Windows version through WINE in a linux environment. I understand we can use both, but I want to know the strengths and weaknesses of these two different methodologies. :-)
audiojunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-16-2019, 06:24 PM   #4
4duhwinnn
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 366
Default

I haven't noticed any speed/latency differences,
using guitars/keyboards. Some people track those specs
carefully, and may have posted the numbers in recent topics.
Once a system is configured for audio, I think hard-drives will be
the main chance to experience a bottleneck,
and next, the individual softwares level of optimization,
and/or sane implementation.

The more large soundfiles that need be moved around,
or held in ram, the more you need a high end system spec.
If an app using large sound files has good disk-streaming,
things should be OK on typical drives/SSDs on the shelves
these days.

The upcoming SampleTank V4 is claiming much improved handling
of such things, hope it works as well in linux as the
current V3 does. There are some Kontakt users here,
who seem happy with their setups.
Cheers
4duhwinnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2019, 09:13 AM   #5
audiojunkie
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 61
Default

Well, if there is no difference between the two, it seems to me that it may be easier to just set up a Windows Reaper session in WINE and run all of the Windows Plugins...
audiojunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2019, 03:18 PM   #6
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,929
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiojunkie View Post
Well, if there is no difference between the two, it seems to me that it may be easier to just set up a Windows Reaper session in WINE and run all of the Windows Plugins...
With the native Linux version I can set Jack audio to run 24/44 with 64 samples latency for 1.4/2.9ms latency in REAPER.

I can't get anywhere near that kind of latency using the Windows version running in WINE.
__________________
Glennbo
Soundclick - http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-17-2019, 05:32 PM   #7
audiojunkie
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
With the native Linux version I can set Jack audio to run 24/44 with 64 samples latency for 1.4/2.9ms latency in REAPER.

I can't get anywhere near that kind of latency using the Windows version running in WINE.
Ah! That's the kind of pro/con-like information I'm looking for!! Thank you! Is that with a Real-time kernel or a low-latency kernel? (My guess would be you're running real-time). :-)

So, for the native Linux Reaper pros, we have:

* Greater application stability
* Much lower latency

I'll add another one over running Windows Reaper in WINE: Native compiled VST plugins run better (more stable), and there are some unique ones too, I believe.
audiojunkie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2019, 03:51 AM   #8
eric71
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Finland
Posts: 160
Default

I think the choice depends a lot on how many Windows plugins you use. The native Linux REAPER will allow lower latency and use less CPU than the WIndows version under wine. But if all the plugins you are using are also working via wine, I think there is a higher success rate running them within Windows Reaper in wine than via a bridge like linvst. And certain things (like drag and drop of midi from EZDrummer to Reaper tracks works with Reaper in Wine, but not in Native Linux Reaper. Of course, there are workarounds (and with EZDummer I usually just export the song midi from the plugin after composing the whole songs drum part in the plugin and import the midi back onto the track). In the end, I decided Native Linux Reaper and the few windows plugins I use bridged with linvst was the best for me. But if I was dependent on a bunch of Windows stuff, I might go the other way.
eric71 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2019, 07:23 AM   #9
Jack Winter
Human being with feelings
 
Jack Winter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Luxembourg/Spain
Posts: 1,714
Default

I haven't tested for a long time, but I don't think there is any great difference between running it in wine or native linux. I wouldn't agree with the lower latency nor the more stable statement. If you use a lot of windows VSTs it's probably preferable to run reaper in wine. Faster loading, etc. Still in wine you'd lose the theming of native controls and linux vsts.

I'd love to see someone testing a few projects though! It would really be the best way to tell the difference. Probably best to test with JACK/wineasio and using the wine-rt or the equivalent wine-staging functionality.
__________________
Reaper for Linux Documentation (WIP). Software: Archlinux/KDE, Fabfilter FX, Komplete 8, Nebula, Schwa/Stillwell, T-racks Max/Amplitube/SVX, etc. Gear: i7-2600k/4700HQ/16GB, RME Multiface/Babyface, Behringer X32, Genelec 8040,etc. :)
Jack Winter is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2019, 10:04 AM   #10
Glennbo
Human being with feelings
 
Glennbo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Planet Earth
Posts: 2,929
Default

I'm running a lowlatency kernel, but I never did any tweaking to WINE to run REAPER for Windows, since there was a native Linux version by the time I started using Linux full time.
__________________
Glennbo
Soundclick - http://www.soundclick.com/glennbo
--
Glennbo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2019, 03:20 PM   #11
4duhwinnn
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 366
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennbo View Post
With the native Linux version I can set Jack audio to run 24/44 with 64 samples latency for 1.4/2.9ms latency in REAPER.

I can't get anywhere near that kind of latency using the Windows version running in WINE.
If I sat as close to my amp/PA as your excellent latency measures,
I'd be deaf. But it's great to know such capabilities can
be achieved. Some users (like me) don't need them now,
but may change their setups, expand their creations,
or aquire something of value requiring such performance.

I hope to travel the path of least resistance,
with many options on the table, while maximizing productivity.
Nobody guarantees us another tuesday.
Cheeers
4duhwinnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-18-2019, 04:53 PM   #12
4duhwinnn
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 366
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Winter View Post
I'd love to see someone testing a few projects though! It would really be the best way to tell the difference. Probably best to test with JACK/wineasio and using the wine-rt or the equivalent wine-staging functionality.
Not huge sessions, using
Mint 18 with i7 cpu, 4 cores 8 threads @ 3.4 ghz
wine-staging 4.5
kernel 4.4.0-21-generic, based solely on qjackctl's
reported cpu use in it's gui,
while playing frenetically, with/without sustain pedal etc
The numbers are based on a peak seen at least twice, while
the normal rate was 2% to 4% lower

linux Reaper with six U-he linux ACE 1.4 default sound cpu = 30%

windows Reaper with six U-he windows ACE 1.4 default sound cpu = 24%

----------------------------------------------------------------

linux Reaper with three U-he linux ZebraHZ vst3 default sound cpu = 40%

windows Reaper with three U-he windows ZebraHZ vst3 default sound cpu = 36%

(ACE has not been updated recently, ZebraHZ has been, so the
comparative uniformity of the differences in cpu use,
might be due to the OS more than the plugins and vst host.
Also, the kernel used is old and generic, most of you will
get much better overall results.

Also, the linux ports are primarily a one-man-show,
and appear to be competitive with the full mac/win team efforts.
Great work done by Alexander Bique!!!

And also Justin has provided a great linux daw
in such a short timeframe!!!

Last edited by 4duhwinnn; 01-18-2019 at 04:58 PM. Reason: mow
4duhwinnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-19-2019, 09:12 AM   #13
bulevardi
Human being with feelings
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Brussels
Posts: 45
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric71 View Post
I think the choice depends a lot on how many Windows plugins you use.
Exactly, I used Synth1 before on Windows, however, it only partially worked on Linux.
I had the problem in Reaper aswell as in other DAW's, so it wasn't a Reaper problem.
(https://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?t=27059)

Since I also had other VST's not working via Wine, I had to search for other solutions.

Meanwhile there's a native version, works brilliant. As I replaced the old VST's I previously used to new ones which work directly in the native version, I cannot see a reason why I would use it under wine.

With Wine I also had issues with the appearance: fonts were looking slightly different, now it all shows up fine.
__________________
More adventure on: http://users.telenet.be/bulevardi
bulevardi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:11 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions Inc.