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07-18-2020, 07:24 AM
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#1
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 61
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Windows 10 performance is terrible compared to Win7.
Recently I was finally forced to get Windows 10 and I have to say the Reaper performance is terrible. Completely false advertising to call it an "upgrade". Way slower than Windows 7 and it starts struggling when you have more than about 20 plugins, especially on the master bus. OK, it's an oldish PC, but 16gb RAM with 250gb SSD and i5 processor should be enough for audio and it was running much smoother in Windows 7.
Anyone still running Windows 7? Seriously considering going back.
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07-19-2020, 10:19 PM
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#2
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Sounds like you may well have failed to really optimise win10 on your machine for recording. There are a lot of vids out there showing how to do this properly & if you havent already tried running resplendence.com`s latency checker, that is another way to identify problems with using multitrack audio/MIDI.
FWIW I have recently repaired an old Dell Win7 computer & had to do a full reinstall. Difficult in these times, as Dell no longer offer the old drivers for their earlier machines, but I got it done & the performance is crap compared with how it was running on Win10.
No sweeping generalisations here, but I think it would be worth your while to make sure you have everything right under Win10 before considering reverting to Win7.
Best first port of call would be https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-...-on-Windows-10.
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
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07-20-2020, 04:05 AM
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#3
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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Run Latencymon
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07-20-2020, 02:45 PM
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#4
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
if you havent already tried running resplendence.com`s latency checker, that is another way to identify problems with using multitrack audio/MIDI.
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Ahem!
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
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10-24-2020, 05:49 AM
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#5
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
Sounds like you may well have failed to really optimise win10 on your machine for recording. There are a lot of vids out there showing how to do this properly & if you havent already tried running resplendence.com`s latency checker, that is another way to identify problems with using multitrack audio/MIDI.
FWIW I have recently repaired an old Dell Win7 computer & had to do a full reinstall. Difficult in these times, as Dell no longer offer the old drivers for their earlier machines, but I got it done & the performance is crap compared with how it was running on Win10.
No sweeping generalisations here, but I think it would be worth your while to make sure you have everything right under Win10 before considering reverting to Win7.
Best first port of call would be https://support.focusrite.com/hc/en-...-on-Windows-10.
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Yes I followed multiple tutorials on OS optimisation. Win10 is still way way slower. I'm opening up old projects with the same amount of plugins I was running smoothly in Win7 and it's really struggling. Especially ReaTune but basically any plugins once I have a full project it just slows down starts clicking and popping etc. Yes of course I can freeze tracks but I shouldn't have to if I didn't have to in Win7. ReaTune isn't a big plugin. Win10 just uses more processing power so there isn't as much left for other tasks. I'm running OS and Reaper off 250gb SSD with i5 processor and 16gb RAM. Not top of the range, but it shouldn't be struggling like this.
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10-24-2020, 06:58 AM
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#6
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,423
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Did you do a clean install of Windows 10 or did you use the upgrade option?
It's a minor point but I have noticed that some people who use the upgrade option when installing 10 do run into some issues.
Also, what was it that forced you to go to Windows 10?
__________________
I wish I was the full moon shining off a Camaro's hood. - Pearl Jam
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10-24-2020, 08:29 AM
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#7
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toleolu
Did you do a clean install of Windows 10 or did you use the upgrade option?
It's a minor point but I have noticed that some people who use the upgrade option when installing 10 do run into some issues.
Also, what was it that forced you to go to Windows 10?
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I also found a fresh win10 install used drivers that didn't work as well. I installed the OEM drivers and RT CPU dropped almost 10 points.
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10-24-2020, 09:14 AM
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#8
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,252
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First thing to do is go into privacy settings and turn off all the many, many unnecessary apps set to run in the background.
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10-24-2020, 04:35 PM
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#10
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: In the studio at my desk
Posts: 360
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My setup has 8 cpu's I found that setting all windows processes to cpu 0-3 and all audio processes to cpu 4-7 make the system run much much smoother.
I use Process Lasso at
https://bitsum.com/
Warren
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11-03-2020, 06:42 PM
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#11
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coachz
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Yep done all that. Performance is still horrible.
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11-03-2020, 06:46 PM
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#12
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toleolu
Did you do a clean install of Windows 10 or did you use the upgrade option?
It's a minor point but I have noticed that some people who use the upgrade option when installing 10 do run into some issues.
Also, what was it that forced you to go to Windows 10?
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Clean install. I was forced into it by scaremongering about no more support or updates. But Windows 10 is honestly unusable for recording. Can't even get it to see my FireWire device so I can currently only record 2 tracks via USB on my other interface.
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11-03-2020, 07:26 PM
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#13
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,161
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Win 10 has been rock-solid for me. Even at 128 sample buffer.
i7-6500U
12 GB RAM
Steinberg UR44
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11-03-2020, 08:52 PM
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#14
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,252
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The choice really should come down to which OS supports the drivers for the hardware you need. I use both for that reason and it sounds like Win10 doesn't support your audio device. Overall performance is mostly due to drivers. Try running Driver Easy or DriverBooster to make sure you have all the most recent.
You can usually run drivers for older Windows with compatibility mode. Had to do that for my firewire devices and it worked fine. Stupid that firewire is already obsolete...
Last edited by foxAsteria; 11-03-2020 at 08:59 PM.
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11-04-2020, 02:40 AM
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#15
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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FWIW I have my Focusrite Liquidmix 32 (firewire & supposedly obsolete since Win7) running in Windows 10 Pro with no problems. It did take me a while to figure out how to do it reliably, but worth the effort. I am also using an old RME HDSP 9652 pci with zero issues.
This is on an i7 4770 with 16gb of ram & SSD for the OS.
It sounds to me like you have one or more issues with your hardware, so once again: Have you tried running resplendence.com`s latency checker? If there is anything causing problems, it will point you in the right direction.
If the clicking & popping is caused by your ASIO buffer being set too low & causing excessive cpu use, that is one very likely cause.
So what do you have your ASIO buffer set to?
Worth mentioning that if you are either using ASIO4ALL or not using ASIO at all, that is a likely cause of the issues you have mentioned. If the "other" interface doesnt come with ASIO drivers, will it run with WASAPI? That is usually a better alternative than using ASIO4ALL.
Just to speed things along a little, exactly what is your interface? I would imagine that once you get that running again, life will become much easier. Also, what is your "other interface" that you are currently running?
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
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11-04-2020, 04:01 AM
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#16
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxAsteria
The choice really should come down to which OS supports the drivers for the hardware you need. I use both for that reason and it sounds like Win10 doesn't support your audio device. Overall performance is mostly due to drivers. Try running Driver Easy or DriverBooster to make sure you have all the most recent.
You can usually run drivers for older Windows with compatibility mode. Had to do that for my firewire devices and it worked fine. Stupid that firewire is already obsolete...
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Yeah I've got Driver Booster already. I read on the Focusrite forum it could be something to do with the FireWire IEEE 1394 VIA driver. Also found a YouTube video where a guy solved it by buying another FireWire PCI card which is compatible with Windows 10 so might have to try that.
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11-04-2020, 04:08 AM
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#17
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
FWIW I have my Focusrite Liquidmix 32 (firewire & supposedly obsolete since Win7) running in Windows 10 Pro with no problems. It did take me a while to figure out how to do it reliably, but worth the effort. I am also using an old RME HDSP 9652 pci with zero issues.
This is on an i7 4770 with 16gb of ram & SSD for the OS.
It sounds to me like you have one or more issues with your hardware, so once again: Have you tried running resplendence.com`s latency checker? If there is anything causing problems, it will point you in the right direction.
If the clicking & popping is caused by your ASIO buffer being set too low & causing excessive cpu use, that is one very likely cause.
So what do you have your ASIO buffer set to?
Worth mentioning that if you are either using ASIO4ALL or not using ASIO at all, that is a likely cause of the issues you have mentioned. If the "other" interface doesnt come with ASIO drivers, will it run with WASAPI? That is usually a better alternative than using ASIO4ALL.
Just to speed things along a little, exactly what is your interface? I would imagine that once you get that running again, life will become much easier. Also, what is your "other interface" that you are currently running?
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Yeah I've tried both ASIO & ASIO4ALL.
16GB RAM
256GB SSD for OS and programs
i5 processor
USB interface: Audient id4
FireWire interface: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 with Behringer ADA 8200 piggy-backing off the Saffire ADAT
I think my only options now are new FireWire PCI card or dual boot both win7 and win10 OS from 2 different SSDs
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11-04-2020, 12:13 PM
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#18
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
It sounds to me like you have one or more issues with your hardware, so once again: Have you tried running resplendence.com`s latency checker? If there is anything causing problems, it will point you in the right direction.
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I've finally run latency mon but I haven't got a clue what the results are telling me. See attachment.
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11-04-2020, 12:38 PM
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#19
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
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Open Nvidia Control Panel and find and set power setting to prefer maximum performance.
See if it improves dpc highest execution (currently 1084 for Nvidia driver)
If still problems restest and post driver tab sorted by highest execution.
And did you try installing the legacy firewire driver before you spend money on a new card.
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11-04-2020, 12:49 PM
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#20
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella645
If still problems try installing the legacy firewire driver before you spend money on a new card.
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Yeah tried the legacy driver. Focusrite MixControl still saying "No hardware connected". The Focusrite is not even showing up in Device Manager.
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11-04-2020, 01:14 PM
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#21
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbb
Yeah tried the legacy driver. Focusrite MixControl still saying "No hardware connected". The Focusrite is not even showing up in Device Manager.
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Can you call focusrite?
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11-04-2020, 09:19 PM
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#22
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Australia
Posts: 14
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You seem to be running Kaspersky AV, so you definitely want to exclude your audio related directories from scan-on-run.
You should also change your power plan to "High Performance". This can make a huge difference. Go through the settings and make sure that just about everything is set to run at 100% all the time - no power off after X minutes.
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11-05-2020, 01:51 AM
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#23
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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@flysalad: OP did say he had already "done all that".
I am only just awake, but obviously the latency checker is indicating that he DOES have some significant problems relating to multitrack recording with his current setup.
I am also wondering what device he used ASIO drivers for?
Always assuming it worked...
@OP: Someone will probably guide you through the latency checker stuff before I get enough coffee inside me & eat breakfast, but if not, I will see what I can figure out for you.
However it is looking like you didnt do all the things recommended in those "how to set up your comupter for multitrack recording" site.
See ya soon...
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
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11-05-2020, 04:43 AM
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#24
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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YouTube has some good videos on how to run latency mon
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11-05-2020, 07:04 AM
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#25
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 61
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To summarise what I did to optimise PC off the top of my head:
- Turned off all Windows 10 visual FX apart from text FX (Best performance)
- Set processor scheduling to run as Background Services
- Set windows to never turn off the screen or sleep in power settings (high performance)
- Disabled fast boot
- Changed paging file to match the settings in the article I read
- Disabled system sounds
- Disabled windows background apps
- Disabled automatic updates
- Turned off USB power management
Things I haven't done:
- Changed Nvidia performance
- Disabled anti-virus or firewall
- Optimised hard disk (was told not to optimise SSD)
- Run DAW as Administrator because this kept giving me weird crashes where the project wouldn't open.
- Updated graphics driver (kept getting black screen errors when i had the latest Nvidia driver so i reverted back to a legacy driver which worked then blocked all updates)
Other programs i have run/changes made:
- ShutUp10
- PowerShell Windows 10 debloater script
- Windows Classic Shell to recreate the Windows 7 look and navigation
And probably a few other things I can't recall. If it says any of the above hasn't been done, it's probably because of another cancerous update undoing things I've told it to do.
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11-05-2020, 08:31 AM
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#26
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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Got sidetracked.
Briefly, you haven`t mentioned several key areas that you should have set to recommended settings, especially including things relating to cpu and memory usage. Also, the classic "how to setup Win10" bible is Cantabile`s booklet called "Glitch Free". Available for free in several formats including e-book, ,doc .pdf and of course Kindle MOBI format.
I`ll get back to you on the latency monitor stuff once I have had a proper look.
But in the meantime you might want to check out what you have missed on basic setup.
Some of the stuff you have apready done is/was unnecessary, too.
Heres a quickie. I also think you have uissues with the NVidia GFX card drivers you have installed. A very common cause of problems with Windows in general.
Read this & see what you can do to help fix yourself
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____
CONCLUSION
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____
Your system seems to be having difficulty handling real-time audio and other tasks. 8 One problem may be related to power management, *****disable CPU throttling settings in Control Panel and BIOS setup. Check for BIOS updates.******
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____
SYSTEM INFORMATION
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Computer name: DESKTOP-A0M81N8
OS version: Windows 10, 10.0, version 1809, build: 17763 (x64)
Hardware: 3227E68, LENOVO
CPU: GenuineIntel Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-3470 CPU @ 3.20GHz
Logical processors: 4
Processor groups: 1
RAM: 16314 MB total
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____
CPU SPEED
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _____
Reported CPU speed: 3193 MHz
. ******Disable variable speed settings like Intel Speed Step and *******AMD Cool N Quiet in the BIOS setup for more accurate results.
Hope this helps point you in the right direction but Glitch Free is going to do a lot to help you understand what is going wrong & how to fix it. GOod luck!
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
Last edited by ivansc; 11-05-2020 at 08:39 AM.
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11-05-2020, 10:06 AM
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#27
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
Heres a quickie. I also think you have uissues with the NVidia GFX card drivers you have installed. A very common cause of problems with Windows in general.
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Like I said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella645
Open Nvidia Control Panel and find and set power setting to prefer maximum performance.
See if it improves dpc highest execution (currently 1084 for Nvidia driver)
If still problems restest and post driver tab sorted by highest execution.
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11-05-2020, 11:20 AM
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#28
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stella645
Open Nvidia Control Panel and find and set power setting to prefer maximum performance.
See if it improves dpc highest execution (currently 1084 for Nvidia driver)
If still problems restest and post driver tab sorted by highest execution.
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Sorry if I'm being stupid, but I can't find power options on the Nvidia control panel. See attached image, this is all I got: https://ibb.co/g6RG9Lc
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11-05-2020, 01:15 PM
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#29
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 3,648
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11-05-2020, 01:23 PM
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#30
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbb
- Set processor scheduling to run as Background Services
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I think that's an old recommendation that's either not needed, or may cause problems with Win10.
Quote:
Originally Posted by danbb
- Optimised hard disk (was told not to optimise SSD)
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You can optimize the SSD. Win10 will TRIM instead of defrag.
Did you look into disabling Superfetch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by danbb
I can't find power options on the Nvidia control panel
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I see Power management mode under 3D settings. Not sure how that would be relevant for normal GPU use.
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11-05-2020, 02:42 PM
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#31
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 1,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
FWIW I have my Focusrite Liquidmix 32 (firewire & supposedly obsolete since Win7) running in Windows 10 Pro with no problems. It did take me a while to figure out how to do it reliably, but worth the effort.
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I don't want to hijack this thread, so I made a new one in General Discussion. I'd appreciate a word there. Thank you!
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11-05-2020, 03:27 PM
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#32
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
Briefly, you haven`t mentioned several key areas that you should have set to recommended settings, especially including things relating to cpu and memory usage. Also, the classic "how to setup Win10" bible is Cantabile`s booklet called "Glitch Free". Available for free in several formats including e-book, ,doc .pdf and of course Kindle MOBI format.
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Thanks, I've followed most of the steps in Glitch Free and updated Nvidia power setting and this is the new reading from Latency Mon (attached). Reaper performance is a bit better. Still nowhere near Windows 7 levels though.
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11-06-2020, 02:30 AM
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#33
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near Cambridge UK and Near Questembert, France
Posts: 22,754
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I suppose the shrt answer is that you should revert to win7 if this really is enough of a difference in performance.
Shame, as I can`t help thinking that even with an older i5 (I have a similar one on my laptop running Win10 Home Premium) there should not be much difference at all between overall win7 and win10 performance.
Mine certainly runs faster, but in fairness a lot of that is down to using an SSD for the OS.
__________________
Ici on parles Franglais
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11-06-2020, 04:38 AM
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#34
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Charleston, SC
Posts: 12,769
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That's probably the best you're going to get. That CPU only benchmarks at 4700 which is not fast. My 10 year-old 980x benchmarks over 8000
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11-06-2020, 08:43 AM
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#35
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ivansc
Mine certainly runs faster, but in fairness a lot of that is down to using an SSD for the OS.
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Mine is running on 256 SSD also. I guess my processor just isn't good enough.
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11-06-2020, 09:54 AM
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#36
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Oblivion
Posts: 10,252
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It's still worth running DriverEasy after DriverBooster. It usually catches a few more, but requires them to be installed manually (right click the "setup information" file in the driver folder DE creates and click Install). You've got some drivers with incredibly high latency.
If you have a the option, sometimes rearranging the gfx card into another slot on the motherboard can also help avoid conflicts.
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11-06-2020, 11:39 AM
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#37
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbb
16GB RAM
256GB SSD for OS and programs
i5 processor
USB interface: Audient id4
FireWire interface: Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 with Behringer ADA 8200 piggy-backing off the Saffire ADAT
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FWIW, that's basically what I run. I built mine years ago with Windows 7. I did have an issue with Firewire when I wiped it and installed 10. I had a PCI card for the Firewire and I couldn't get Windows 10 drivers for that card so I bought a USB interface.
A large project for me is about 15 tracks, I don't use a lot of plugins and effects, but performance hasn't been a problem.
How old is your hardware?
I haven't read all the comments in detail, but I'm wondering if there's something you're still using from the Windows 7 install that's not playing nice with Windows 10.
Are you able to record OK with the USB interface?
__________________
I wish I was the full moon shining off a Camaro's hood. - Pearl Jam
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11-06-2020, 01:13 PM
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#38
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toleolu
FWIW, that's basically what I run. I built mine years ago with Windows 7. I did have an issue with Firewire when I wiped it and installed 10. I had a PCI card for the Firewire and I couldn't get Windows 10 drivers for that card so I bought a USB interface.
A large project for me is about 15 tracks, I don't use a lot of plugins and effects, but performance hasn't been a problem.
How old is your hardware?
I haven't read all the comments in detail, but I'm wondering if there's something you're still using from the Windows 7 install that's not playing nice with Windows 10.
Are you able to record OK with the USB interface?
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My issue isn't really with tracking. The recording part itself doesn't give me any problems on the USB interface at least. It's when I start adding plugins and FX at the mixing stage where my PC starts to struggle. Typically i have 12 tracks for drums, 2 tracks of bass, 5 tracks for rhythm guitars, 2 piano/synths and a mega-ton of vocals and backing vocals. Typically 1 lead vocal and about 24x tracks of choir harmonies sub mixed down to 3 stereo tracks. I tend to track at 64 samples and mix at 512 or more. Don't get me wrong, it works, I can get stuff done, it's just annoying to have to keep freezing tracks and sub mixing stuff I could do easily in Windows 7 without any faffing. Especially when I was promised that Windows 10 was an upgrade. Literally the only thing which is faster is the start up time. Everything else is slower.
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11-06-2020, 01:29 PM
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#39
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,161
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Make sure this setting is enabled
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11-06-2020, 02:06 PM
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#40
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Human being with feelings
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,423
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danbb
Especially when I was promised that Windows 10 was an upgrade. Literally the only thing which is faster is the start up time. Everything else is slower.
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When you say "Everything else is slower" is that just within Reaper, or are other things you do on your computer running slower?
__________________
I wish I was the full moon shining off a Camaro's hood. - Pearl Jam
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