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Old 03-13-2019, 08:17 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by Vincent Sermonne View Post
A software depending on its extensions is an incomplete software, sorry!
YEAH ! Windows is incomplete software because it does not include a DAW !!!

But it's no real problem, as 90 % of the Windows users don't need a DAW, and for the rest there are lots of options.

I understand that there are some that like PT playlists, others don't want/need them. Hence it's perfect that there are options included in an extension.

-Michael
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:31 AM   #162
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if they are a secondary complement to the software, the software does not depend on them, but if they fill a gap then they become essential and this, in my opinion, is a problem.
Your logic is flawed, as there will always be scripts and extensions filling gaps that some people consider essential.

Cockos consists of two people, working on whatever features/bugs catch their interest. As much noise as we make on here for our favorite features, there's nothing democratic about what Justin and Schwa decide to add.

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I consider the snapshot function as a fundamental function for a DAW...How do you make snapshots without SWS?
Why can't you use SWS?

You complain about missing features and depending on extensions to fill that gap, but why would Cockos spend the time to add it natively when the feature already exists with a simple extension.

Personally, I think there should be links to SWS and ReaPack in the Reaper installer so more people are aware of them.
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Old 03-13-2019, 08:40 AM   #163
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Originally Posted by Lokasenna View Post

You complain about missing features and depending on extensions to fill that gap, but why would Cockos spend the time to add it natively when the feature already exists with a simple extension.



What about that time in 2017 when SWS development ceased, and many functions of Snapshots became buggy as Reaper was updated?
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Old 03-13-2019, 09:30 AM   #164
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That's a risk with community-based projects, certainly.

Tim was reluctant to let anyone else have permission to publish new versions - IIRC he was worried about quality, bugs slipping through, etc - so even though there were bug fixes and features being submitted they just sat there.

Given the length of SWS' hiatus I do think it would have been appropriate for Cockos to reimplement some of it as things started breaking, particularly functions for the scripting API that were mostly just letting us access things Reaper already does anyway.

The good news, though is that SWS is back up and Tim has a couple of other users working a little more closely to take some of the testing/fixing/publishing workload from him.

----

All that aside, for things that aren't broken by being out of date my question stands - why would Cockos add something to Reaper that's already right there?

For example, one popular feature request for Reaper is the ability to work with OMF, since other DAWs do. It's a perfectly reasonable request, but AATranslator already exists for that purpose and Cockos would effectively have to write and maintain their own version of AATranslator within Reaper to do it.

For a company made up of two people, that doesn't strike me as being worth the time.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:30 AM   #165
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That's a risk with community-based projects, certainly.
Not really only those. I seem to remember at least one DAW being abandoned lately.


-Michael
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:41 AM   #166
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Not really only those. I seem to remember at least one DAW being abandoned lately.


-Michael
But is there another product, required to use the DAW, that will start causing bugs in the DAW with future updates, and that could feasibly implement the DAW itself?
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:52 AM   #167
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Hence it's perfect that there are options included in an extension.

-Michael
If that's "perfect" why does REAPER include any features (that they then have to support) that could be extensions instead?
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:55 AM   #168
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The takes system in REAPER is good, it's fine, it does most of the same things better than ProTools. Track versions/playlists let you keep alternate versions of a tracks edits hidden as easy to manage sub tracks of the original track. THIS is the benefit. There is no way to do this in REAPER, there are work around but nothing I've seen is that elegant.

Logic X already had it's own take system for years but they recently added a track versions feature that is similar to playlists. That's what I would like to see in REAPER.
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Old 03-13-2019, 10:46 PM   #169
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If that's "perfect" why does REAPER include any features (that they then have to support) that could be extensions instead?
It includes those features that the devs esteem to be the most useful for a certain set of groups of users they have in mind.

That set can't be extended at infinitum for such reasons as "bloating" and "limited resources for development". There never will be a widely agreed exact limitation of that set of users, hence the devs need to act with respect to their gut feeling (and personal preference).

And happily the provide means to allow 3rd parties to to extend this set.

Regarding a shoe company it does not make much sense to produce only pairs in a single "perfect" size, even if those with that kind feet claim they are the "pros".

Regarding Reaper there even is an extension that manages finding and installing extensions. In fact for me, the availability of ReaPack is one of the most avanced and beneficial "features" or Reaper's.

-Michael

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Old 03-13-2019, 10:52 PM   #170
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Track versions/playlists let you keep alternate versions of a tracks edits hidden as easy to manage sub tracks of the original track. THIS is the benefit.
Ah. Now I finally understand the supposedly obvious .

A "save current take cuts and selects as ..." (and of course the appropriate load) dialogue seems like a logical option.
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Old 03-13-2019, 11:25 PM   #171
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it's just a mind set

personally, I explain like this

REAPER with no extension = Standard version
REAPER with sws = REAPER Pro
REAPER with sws and reapack = REAPER ultimate...



exactly like other softwares.

the main difference is that you don't have to pay more to use the pro and ultimate version (except a little donation if you want)
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Old 03-14-2019, 12:10 AM   #172
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Originally Posted by Lokasenna View Post
For example, one popular feature request for Reaper is the ability to work with OMF, since other DAWs do. It's a perfectly reasonable request, but AATranslator already exists for that purpose and Cockos would effectively have to write and maintain their own version of AATranslator within Reaper to do it.

For a company made up of two people, that doesn't strike me as being worth the time.
For those who may be interested - OMF isn't blessed boxed and buried, we continually get confronted with some bizarre out of the blue OMF which requires us to throw resources at it in order to deal with it - and no I wouldn't wish that on any other developer
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Old 03-30-2019, 09:57 AM   #173
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Default My take on a custom action for this!

Hello all Reaper fans,

I have a custom action that in two clicks makes a very playlist like environment.

Heres the custom action chain and after I'll explain how to use it:

""SWS: Select unmuted items on selected track(s)
Take: Explode takes of items across tracks
Item properties: Mute
Track: Insert new track
Xenakios/SWS: Rename selected tracks...
Track: Insert new track""

I named it "Playlist" and made it my "Control + P" action.

After that it's just to make sure you selected (only) the track with all of the takes,
press your "Control + P" shortcut and it will explode into new channels muted with two empty channels on top.

There will come up a box asking you to name the top one and I recommend giving a name that has to to with the playlist like "Voice Playlist Folder" or "Drums, takes folder" etc.

Then the next movement is to select all the new exploded tracks and make the top one you just named into a folder for all the others.

Also make a shortcut of "Toggle mute" on an easy accessible key and then you can just split the already muted tracks where you want and unmute and listen as you wish.

It might sound complicated but it's really easy and fast, if you get the hang of it you just press "control + P" and make a playlist and go on to edit in a way that "takes" do not come close to offer.

When finished with the editing you just take the parts and put on the other free track and that is your new comped track, so you can mute and hide all the others.

Let me know what you think of this greetings to all in the Reaper community!!
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Old 12-22-2019, 12:28 AM   #174
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Been asking for playlists for long time! maybe, who knows, in V6..
Nope ... V6 still doesn’t bring this feature to life -.-
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:16 AM   #175
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Just a reminder that WE need this in Reaper! ehehe
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Old 01-30-2020, 10:41 AM   #176
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jep. Missing it every day.
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:06 AM   #177
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the most frustration fact is that, we need pro tools only because of this...only one feature!
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Old 01-30-2020, 11:49 AM   #178
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the most frustration fact is that, we need pro tools only because of this...only one feature!
jep...
Playlists and editing based on track groups, not item groups...
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Old 01-30-2020, 02:54 PM   #179
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jep...
Playlists and editing based on track groups, not item groups...
My two biggest wish list items at the moment, along with sub-groups.
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Old 01-30-2020, 07:15 PM   #180
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I really hate PT for so many things but I often have to use it cause item groups in editing audio doesnt work for me at all. If you disable groups to do some individual edits (e.g. cutting the space between single tom hits) groups really get messed up.
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Old 02-19-2020, 04:14 PM   #181
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From time to time we need to post here! on a great hope that some day we´ll have this ! eheheh
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Old 02-20-2020, 12:23 AM   #182
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From time to time we need to post here! on a great hope that some day we´ll have this ! eheheh
Yeah we missed u Sexan ;_;
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Old 04-27-2020, 06:57 PM   #183
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Bumping to say that I would happily put money towards this being implemented natively. It's really important to me switching DAWs from the horror of Pro Tools. I'm considering semi-jumping to Studio One just because it seems to have this.

The way I tend to work with clients (and please don't criticize me for this), we will often do a shitload of vocal takes. I work with a lot of novices, and also some people who will write songs in the booth, line by line. I usually save almost everything, and that has prevented grief many times. The Reaper take system is horrible for working with more than, like, 6 takes. In my opinion it quickly turns into a janky mess. It's absolutely elegant if you're doing less than say 10 takes. I really like it in some ways! But it's really horrible for the method that I've come to use, of creating new playlists/track versions for every take and saving just about everything that way.

There are definitely workarounds, but it would just be so amazing to have this. Bar none, this is my biggest wish for Reaper. No question.

Edit: I've used Sexan's script and it's really great and almost gets all the way there, but not quite. This needs to be implemented natively.

Why?
1) Keybinding. Sexan's script, as far as I'm aware, doesn't support a key command for, say, "create new version". Essential.
2) Sexan's script hogs the spacebar from working (play/pause). Really annoying.
3) Sexan's script keeps randomly changing my docker from being focused on the mixer to being focused on the performance pane. Not sure why...
4) Sexan's script, with its separate window (which can't be docked), takes up unnecessary screen real estate for something that should be a per-track dropdown in the TCP, like it is in PT. I actually don't hate the idea of it being a separate pane, but it should at least be dockable. IMO it looks unprofessional to just have a weird little window floating in the ether.

All love and respect to Sexan for his work on the script, but I want to be upfront about my issues with it. Because at the end of the day, this shouldn't be a feature that is left to a third party.

One more thing: it seems like so many PT (etc) users want this. I feel quite positive that Reaper could increase its market share by implementing this. Are there other things that PT has that I wish Reaper had? Yes. But this is the one for me. The big one! And I think other people feel the same way.

Last edited by SamuelBeckett; 04-27-2020 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 04-27-2020, 08:47 PM   #184
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One more thing: it seems like so many PT (etc) users want this. I feel quite positive that Reaper could increase its market share by implementing this. Are there other things that PT has that I wish Reaper had? Yes. But this is the one for me. The big one! And I think other people feel the same way.
Not going to lie. Playlists is probably my most desired feature as well.

But arguing similar to "because PT has it" is NOT going to work.

Playlists will make REAPER better. Period.
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Old 04-27-2020, 08:58 PM   #185
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Not going to lie. Playlists is probably my most desired feature as well.

But arguing similar to "because PT has it" is NOT going to work.

Playlists will make REAPER better. Period.
You're absolutely right in that playlists are valuable in and of themselves. But what I'm saying is that, if we think from a kind of (potentially regrettable) capitalistic perspective, if we're talking about controlling market share or whatever, then it is important for Reaper to have features that match, and exceed, its competitors. All I'm saying is it's another way of arguing in favor of adding this very useful feature.

I'd love to see people keep jumping from PT to Reaper, which is part of it.
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Old 04-28-2020, 07:50 AM   #186
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The way I tend to work with clients (and please don't criticize me for this), we will often do a shitload of vocal takes. I work with a lot of novices, and also some people who will write songs in the booth, line by line. I usually save almost everything, and that has prevented grief many times. The Reaper take system is horrible for working with more than, like, 6 takes. In my opinion it quickly turns into a janky mess. It's absolutely elegant if you're doing less than say 10 takes. I really like it in some ways! But it's really horrible for the method that I've come to use, of creating new playlists/track versions for every take and saving just about everything that way.

I'm not going to criticize you for that at all! Anybody working with clients has been through that multiple times. I'm not about to tell a client to work differently on account of my software (especially when some of those clients are used to using a system that has a take system like PT or Logic).



I worked with a band once, and everybody punched in takes. Even the drummer. Two guitars, bass, drums and three vocalists. And no click. We did an entire album. It came out great, but damn it was a mess! I just had to remember: after every comp, Lock Active Takes. The band was sympathetic, and thankfully they were just glad I could handle it all quickly.
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Old 04-28-2020, 08:20 AM   #187
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You're absolutely right in that playlists are valuable in and of themselves. But what I'm saying is that, if we think from a kind of (potentially regrettable) capitalistic perspective, if we're talking about controlling market share or whatever, then it is important for Reaper to have features that match, and exceed, its competitors. All I'm saying is it's another way of arguing in favor of adding this very useful feature.

I'd love to see people keep jumping from PT to Reaper, which is part of it.
Right. But what I'm saying is that REAPER doesn't work that way. They don't care about selling more "units" or getting a bigger product "share". Those words will most likely do the opposite.

Their goal is to make it better. That's all.
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Old 04-28-2020, 08:54 AM   #188
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I'm quite lucky that my post has this big impact I'm missing this feature so much. As a pro user (I make ma living of audio engineering at least in non-corona times). I often talk to other pro audio guys. And EVERY time people get interested in reaper they ask how reaper handles takes and edit groups. No matter which DAW they're using. It's such an important feature as most people who don't just record one channel and who are working with clients need to use a propper system ALL THE TIME. Same with track edit groups. I do a virtual choir project (due to corona) at the moment with over 1000 (!!!) tracks of choir singers that recorded using their smart phones. The audio quality is a mess so I use item grouping to cut the pauses in between the phrases. Therefor I often have to disable item groups to do individual edits. By reactivating item groups it always gets messed up because the wrong parts of the individually edited item are in the edit group with the rest. Track edit groups and playlists go hand in hand when it comes to editing.
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Old 04-30-2020, 01:53 PM   #189
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Not going to lie. Playlists is probably my most desired feature as well.

But arguing similar to "because PT has it" is NOT going to work.

Playlists will make REAPER better. Period.
Thats exactly my point.
Making Reaper even better eheh
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Old 05-13-2020, 05:00 AM   #190
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edit... wrong thread
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Old 05-13-2020, 05:28 AM   #191
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Not going to lie. Playlists is probably my most desired feature as well.

But arguing similar to "because PT has it" is NOT going to work.

Playlists will make REAPER better. Period.
Exactly. "Because PT has it" is not a good reason to add it to Reaper. The reason should be because playlists are simply a good idea, who cares which other DAWs have it or don't have something like it. Playlists are just good for workflow, period, and if the feature didn't exist out there in another DAW, I'd hope that Justin and Schwa would come up with it anyway. The idea has to have its own merits, which it does.

And obviously, the concept of "market share" between Reaper and the rest of the DAW market is not really part of the ethos at Cockos that has made Reaper so special over the years anyway. It is the very counterculture and countermarket intuitiveness that they have religiously adhered to that has gotten us here in the first place, with all sorts of great ideas that other DAWs lack. (My favorite of all is Reaper's subprojects feature, which is just brilliant.)

But I do hope that their unique development philosophy will eventually get us their own very cool take on playlists. Would be extremely helpful.
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Old 05-13-2020, 07:39 AM   #192
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Exactly. "Because PT has it" is not a good reason to add it to Reaper. The reason should be because playlists are simply a good idea, who cares which other DAWs have it or don't have something like it. Playlists are just good for workflow, period, and if the feature didn't exist out there in another DAW, I'd hope that Justin and Schwa would come up with it anyway. The idea has to have its own merits, which it does.

And obviously, the concept of "market share" between Reaper and the rest of the DAW market is not really part of the ethos at Cockos that has made Reaper so special over the years anyway. It is the very counterculture and countermarket intuitiveness that they have religiously adhered to that has gotten us here in the first place, with all sorts of great ideas that other DAWs lack. (My favorite of all is Reaper's subprojects feature, which is just brilliant.)

But I do hope that their unique development philosophy will eventually get us their own very cool take on playlists. Would be extremely helpful.
They always seem to come up with a better way than we envision it.
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Old 05-13-2020, 07:50 AM   #193
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They always seem to come up with a better way than we envision it.
Are you talking about automation items?
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Old 07-28-2020, 11:37 PM   #194
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For me this is one of the most important improvement Reaper can have. The playlist
for editing and recording like in pro tools is just genious and there are no reasons to do it better. This is the only reason i still have to record in Pro Tools and also takes me hours to transfer the projects in reaper for mixing. I hope one day you are going to release this function!

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Old 07-29-2020, 05:38 AM   #195
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This is the only reason i still have to record in Pro Tools
same here. Still doing recordings in pro tools, especially in overdub sessions.
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Old 07-29-2020, 05:40 AM   #196
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For me this one of the most important improvement Reaper can have. The playlist
for editing and recording like in pro tools is just genious, there are no reasons to me to do it better, it is just perfect like that and in recording and editing situation is vital. This is the only reason i still have to record in Pro Tools and takes me hours to transfer the projects in reaper for mixing. I hope one day you are going to release this function!
Try this: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=203828
or this: https://forum.cockos.com/showthread.php?t=176578
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Old 09-05-2020, 08:09 PM   #197
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Still wishing for this, bad, every time I record in Reaper. It's a very critical feature for me, and, it seems like, plenty of others as well.

It just makes so much sense to be able to switch between different versions of tracks. Not only just for recording a bunch of takes, but for different edits of things as well. It totally hinders my workflow to not have this. I would just really, really appreciate it being implemented, so much.
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Old 09-06-2020, 02:39 AM   #198
Gass n Klang
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yep, I'm editing this choir recording right now. Every person had her own mic. I choose my takes for the whole section all at once. But I often have to disable edit group selection to choose a different take for a single person (red frame). The result: My edit group is a mess. I have to ungroup and regroup items for further edits after the track based one I did. If I forget to do that, the whole edit has to be redone for the track I missed.

We need playlists and track based edit groups to solve problems like this.
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Old 09-29-2020, 02:16 AM   #199
Gass n Klang
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another example of problems with the current take system. It's a vocal backing. We tried different notelength during production. Now I have to cut through notes. It can make everything quite messy. I'll have to timestretch some of the items which will result in timestretching every take. This will make it impossible to listen to the original source files and compare them to the final take...
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Old 09-29-2020, 09:42 AM   #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gass n Klang View Post

We need playlists and track based edit groups to solve problems like this.
With the new razor edit feature being developed I have been able to mimic track edit groups. There’s a script that will set your razor edit to your folder. So all folders become edit groups essentially. I linked the script to group item enable, so if item groups are turned on, it will also link your razor edits to your folders. Pretty nifty...

To mimic playlists, you probably just need a script that will set all items on track to a certain specified take unless locked. So you can create different playlists with takes which is essentially how protools does it anyway. Yeah, I know, it’s not as elegant as the way protools does it, but it could be a solution to your problem.
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